Well, I got the OK from the wife to get front & rear ARB's

So I figure in the next couple weeks I am going to order an RD90 & an RD132 & one of the CKMA12 high output compressors. My 4Runner has stock 4.88's if the identification plate code is translated correctly by me (I was considering 5.29's because I'd like to stuff in some 33's in the future)....Is there anything else I'll need, some sort of install kit? Switches? Fittings? I plan on tackling the rear first & if it goes alright I'll get after the front.

My overall plan is to have a powertank as well & to plumb the ARB system in such a way that if the ARB compressor gives out, I can quick connect the powertank to power the lockers if it's even possible to do. I was real close to contacting ZUK & sending it all to him so all I had to do was slap the thirds back in, but I'm relatively certain I can accomplish the install so I'm going to attempt it.

Any last minute advice, or fantastic pricing on components, feel free to post up.

 

ZUK stands behinds his work 100 percent and i would consider it cheap insurance to have him do it. i feel his labor rates is very competitive.

 

If you have an automatic, you're undergeared from the factory and REALLY need to regear whlie you're doing this.

I would HIGHLY recommend you get a master install kit and replace the seals and bearings while you're at it.

I would also highly recommend you reconsider setting up the gears yourself. If you take the thirds out and take them to a shop, it should only be $150 - 200 per axle to have them setup professionally, by someone who does it everyday and has the special tools needed to do it properly and efficiently.

 

I 2nd (or is it3rd by now) the idea to go through ZUK. Gear work takes some skill, specialized tools and a little bit of plain 'ol black magic as far as I can tell.

Gear setup is the won't frontier I have yet to tackle... and I have tackled a lot so far.

I will say that I originally bought my rear 3rd with the ARB all set up from a reputable source and I started to have problems withing a few months. Kept having the ARB fail due to leaks. ZUK is local to me and really got me fixed up right. Should have gone to him first thing.

The additional tank isn't such a bad idea, but if you are concerned about problems... a line repair kit will most likely save your butt more often. I ran my airline through a long section of rubber fuel line from compressor to diff to help fight abrasion as well.

 

Now would be a great time to regear for the cost in time and $$ for the parts. You can always sell those 4.88s after as they will surely be in demand. What about buying the third(s) already set up and then you can sell your entier third.

 

Well, it's $400 per diff if I remove them & take them to the shop here in my area & there's only one place that's somewhat local that'll do it; not $150 to $200.

The 4.88 gearing has been fine thus far, so why would I need to regear? I have 31" tires & will for a couple years at least plus I have concerns about how streetable 5.29's will be on long interstate trips & this rig is going to be a DD/trail truck.

There are no special tools needed from what I've seen....except a spanner wrench which I can make. I have a press & torque wrenches & a fairly well stocked Snap-On box.



I've done a couple Dodge rear ends, my first failed & my second lives still as far as I know & that was four or five years ago.....I hadn't thought of the line repair kit; good lookin' out.


OK well here's my problem with that....money. I can get the ARB's shipped to me for just under $1,500. If I have a local shop do the install only; as I said above...me doing all the hard work, it'll run me an additional $800 give or take. I haven't contacted ZUK but, depending on how busy he is & shipping time I could be down for quite a while plus the extra cost for his excellent labor & shipping. If I buy thirds from a junk yard (No Toyota's locally) I am then in for even more money until I can sell my thirds, which are in good shape & don't make a bit of noise....if I can sell them at all. If I buy them already set up (from somewhere like Trail Gear etc.) then, I don't have to wait god knows how long while my truck is down for them to make it back to me & I might be able to get a little of that cost back by selling my OEM thirds but I'm still up around $3,000 now & I have no idea what sort of quality the install was.


To everyone who has said "use ZUK" I appreciate the advice, even though it sounds as though you're all saying "you're too stupid to read a torque wrench or a dial indicator" ( ) & you may be right. There's no need to try to convince me of how great ZUK's work is, I've read enough all over the web to know he does excellent work....that's why I was considering the hassle of sending them to him at all. A persons reputation would have to be stellar for me to even think about shipping my thirds all the way across the United States I promise you. But since I don't need to remove my pinion; & getting the crush sleeve done right would be the only part I have NO experience with, I don't see the big deal.

But with all that said, I might give ZUK a yell & see what he can do for me since everyone is so sure that's what I should do. I like supporting the honest one guy garage when I can. After all I am the one guy garage in this family, I am the sole wrencher on a 1987 Ford Bronco II, a 1998 Isuzu Trooper, a 1990 Dodge Ram, a 1986 Dodge Power Ram, a 1978 GMC Sierra, a 1990-something Suzuki car (sisters wreck), occasional work on my parents 2006 Buick Century & my 1995 4Runner. I've just never wrenched on a Toyota until I bought this one last year & the first thing I had to do was replace the water pump & install a timing kit since I bought it off the used car lot bleeding all over the place; so as you can see my experience with this brand is very limited.

 

may your gears live long.

 

uh, OK. Thanks.

Are you saying ARB's will destroy gears? If so that's the first time I ever heard anyone say that & I can't believe it; not with all the people out there running them with no issues after thousands of miles.

 

Having a press already is a big part of the puzzle. The only real special tools I have seen that are very helpful is a way to hold the diff securely in a vice, spanner wrenches to fit the lock rings and various press adapters to match bearings and such.

IIRC, you need to press a large bearing onto the ARB carrier, which can be difficult.

Having experience will be a big benefit for sure. Sounds like you have a 50/50 chance. (Just being a smart ass )

To me, it's not so much the dial indicator or torque wrench that are the hard part... it's reading the mesh pattern and making sure that's set right. Watching over ZUK's shoulder when he did mine, the torque and dial indicator were only a small part of the puzzle. There is a lot of "feel" to the setup. Something that only comes with experience.

One other thing... crush sleeves kinda suck. ZUK won't use them, and for good reason. Sure, yours is set right now, but I imagine once that ARB gets in there your diff is going to start seeing a much harder life. Not guaranteed problems by any means, but one less thing to worry about if you swap in a solid spacer during the job. And when the 3rd is all apart.. that's the time to do just that.

My suggestion to use ZUK stems from remembering what it was like time and time again to get to a hard section of the trail and have my ARB fail due to a bad gear setup.

I also understand that once a new gear set meshes incorrectly, even for limited miles, that gear set can be ruined. Which means starting over, and new gears.... more money, time and so on.

But who am I to really talk about what should and shouldn't be tried. Heck, I have tried almost everything so far on my own and learned a lot. I'd be lying if I didn't admit I will most likely try to do my next gear setup alone as well.

I'd also be lying if I said I expect it to work out perfectly the first time.

 

Well the gear pattern is subjective to a certain extent & I agree it's an "art" more than a science, but not changing the pinion, I shouldn't have anything to worry with except setting the correct backlash & being sure the carrier bearing preload is tight enough.

If I were to change gears I'd be a little more leary of getting it right. I'm still not 100% following why I would need to regear other than the "new bearings everywhere while you're in there" argument which is understandable & not lost on me at all. If the argument is that the 4.88's are undergeared I don't get it. The truck has been fine on 4.88's & 31"s so why would that change with the addition of a locker?

Granted I am an ARB newbie & had never heard of one until this time last year; my only experience has been with Detroit lockers & then only from the using end...not the installing end.

 

Here are some good writeups if you haven't found them already. Some directly related to Toyota, others just general ARB info. I also have a ARB owners manual/ install guide on PDF for Toyota 8" diffs. PM me your E-Mail and I can send it if you wish.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/te...iew/Compressor
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/gear_setup/
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/arb_locker/
http://www.gearinstalls.com/arbinstall.htm

You are going to be amazed at what a locker does for your rig, not that you don't already know what to expect.

 

You don't realize how undergeared your truck is because you've never driven it any other way. Drive a manual tranny truck sometime and you'll see that you're at least one ratio undergeared.

NOW, it kinda passed by me that you have the factory 4.88's, which are not regearable, making buying complete thirds that WOULD be regearable an option definitely worth considering IMHO.

The problem is that if you DO want to go with larger tires when these wear out (and I would bet large sums of money that you will), you will be doing the exact same reinstall of the ARB's then.

I'm merely proposing that you make a plan so you only have to do the work once.

Lastly, why does everyone take such personal offense at recommendations that you have a pro do gear install? Everyone takes it as "you don't have any mechanical ability", which is simply not true. Technically, most anyone can install gears. You need a good dial indicator with a magnetic base, and you can fab up some kind of spanner for the CBPL. The point is that gear install is as much an art as a science and it's best left to someone who does it every day, as it will keep your down time to a minimum. If you do it yourself (and you're smart), you'll post pictures of the pattern and get feedback from people more experienced, and that will take a couple days anyways.

One other note: There is absolutely NO reason to pay to have the compressor and switches installed! Just have the diff work done, the rest is EASY.

 

People take personal offense for different reasons I'm sure; I took no personal offense at all, that's why I added the smiley icon. I simply made a remark about how it appears when someone says "I've considered letting a pro do the work but decided I'm going to do this myself" (they already thought of the cons of self install obviously) only to have every single response completely ignore the question of...."any other advice" & go straight to "just let the pro do it".

We covered the "art form vs. pure science" earlier lol

I have zero intention of paying anyone to install the compressor & switches. Even though I can barely wire up a battery, plug in a cell phone adapter etc. (I am horrible at electronic/wiring work) I can muddle through; I've installed stereo's, lights, electric fans for my old Dodge power ram's radiator etc. & all of those went off without a hitch.

As far as the gearing, I know what different gearing feels like in otherwise identical vehicles; true I don't have any experience with this particular truck or brand but I do know what it would feel like with a butt dyno to regear. I just don't know how the 5.29's will affect interstate driveability of this particular truck (gas mileage in particular, getting 15mpg & change now on the interstate & that's not good). I've been driving this truck for a year now & have taken it off road a little, not too much...open diffs suck & I almost always get opposing wheels off the ground so I haven't done it much, mostly forest service roads. Also I just put a new set of 31"s on my truck so it'll be at least a couple years before I even consider 33"s & if they don't become more available in the 15" size I might never do it.

Regardless; I have an email off to ZUK & will inquire about gears at the same time. If it's affordable, I'll go with ZUK, if not I'm installing them myself.

 

I say go for it. If you've got confidence thats half the battle right there. I have done the front and rear gears in my old dodge having a friend who knows how help me. After that one time I feel confident. Its really not that hard just can be a little intimidating looking at all the specs to set them too but I wouldn't worry about it. Go for it! and if they do fail, well then I guess you can regear! lol.

 

Well if Ike was able to do it in his garage, I imagine I can to but, I'll be waiting to hear back from ZUK if he can fix me up for a price I can afford I'll let him do them with a regear if he thinks it'd be needed. I still can't see why it would be though, that'd be like having to regear when you put a lockrite in....not many people would be driveway installing them if that was the case.

 

*wham* I can say this, ZUK will get right back to you by email & will discuss it until you come to a conclusion; but the cost for professional help & new gears is close to heart attack inducing. If I can't get the ARB's installed without regearing I'll almost certainly have to do it myself or just not do it at all.

 

I didn't read all the long replies but if you not changing the gears it's really easy..do it yourself

 

Well since ZUK agreed that 4.88 is the best ratio for me for what I want to do with the truck I won't need to change my gear ratio, so I can't see the benefit of having all new thirds built with new gears when I do a cost vs. money available vs. wants data sheet in my head....well I can see a benefit; longevity & me not having to do the labor but if I can't afford it that's a deal breaker.

Apparently it boils down to this, I can have the ARB's if I do them myself & if not, I can't. I told the wife $2,000 & if she hears $3,000 + she'll blow a freakin' gasket

 

Update: Well ZUK is a real helpful guy & after discussing what I think are all my options I find that sending my thirds to him & just having him install the ARB's & freshen up the bearings will run me less than what the local shop was going to charge me to do relatively the same thing & that's counting all shipping to Az. from Ar. but not counting the cost of fuel to drive down to the "local" shop here (& back - 40 minute one way). About $520 total for him & $800 for the local boys.....I will have to ruminate on this quandary a while; if ZUK was local to me I'd already have said OK & pulled the trigger on the ARB's but as of yet PORC hasn't seen fit to answer my email. Maybe I'll have to call them.