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Another Rust Post - Some Unusual Questions

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86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

Another Rust Post - Some Unusual Questions

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Old 04-23-2018, 03:23 PM
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Another Rust Post - Some Unusual Questions

1994 Pickup IFS 4WD living in CT...

Overall, the frame is in good shape, but in doing some work on my truck recently I found that there are some areas of the frame that need attention. One is the classic dip in the frame where the front of the leaf springs are mounted. The second are the driver side lower control arm frame mounts (where camber is adjusted). The last is the front cross member behind the grill where the front of the debris shield bolts to.

I already ordered a length of 2 1/2Ē square tubing to replace the front cross member. Hoping I can just cut that out and weld the new piece in. Mine is currently rotting away and doesnít seem to be doing any structural work right now, but should I be worried about frame tweaking if I remove this part and replace with new good tubing? Like, do I need to support the frame in this location as I work in any way?

The rear frame portion is pretty self explanatory. Iím going to remove the bed and fuel tank, cut out the rotting bits and weld in new 3/16Ē steel. While Iím there Iíll pressure wash inside and out and paint where it needs it. I see that itís been patched already on the driver side with two patches (see pictures), but they just put new steel over the rust. I donít like that.

The tricky part is the lower control arm mounts (see pictures below). What is the feasibility of buying a cut out portion of a good frame, cutting out my rotted mounts and welding in the good part? Is the truck just going to fall apart if I cut these out? Is making it structural going to be impossible? Am I just opening a can of worms here?

What else can I do to help prevent rusting from the inside? Iíve searched and found some good info but if thereís any new tricks Iím all ears. I want to drill drain holes right by the dip in the frame. I know this will let water in, but water is already getting in. Getting it out is the problem. Maybe welding in tubes that stick down on all bottom facing holes is an option, like teats on a cow. That will help block water but still allow draining. I do plan on either using fluid film or old oil and kerosene on the inside. Just not sure how Iíll be able to coat the entire inside. A 360į wand?

Tips for removing the bed are welcome. Should I buy new rubber mounts and hardware preemptively? Mine seem in good shape but not sure if the old rubber disintegrates once you take it apart.







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Old 04-23-2018, 06:49 PM
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Knowing where you are is helpful in this situation - so put you city and or state in below your name.
Presuming you're in the middle of the rust belt . . .

You can fix those things but I have to wonder - is the whole truck worth the time/money/effort?
Is getting another frame a better use if time/resources? Then, if needed, take a couple pieces of this frame to repair another - just a thought.

I hope you're not driving it with the LCA like that.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:09 AM
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Red face

Given any thoughts to a Solid axle swap ??

In any case when all finished your going to need a front end alignment I bet all 4Cam bolts are seized ??

While your there what are the Ball joints like the steering parts??

I hope this is a project and no pressure to get this done .

Have access to a sand blaster to get the worst off the rust off.

When you work on the frame and remove cross members I always add something to keep the frame from moving when the old one is removed .

Lots of work here Just how big a budget and just how far do you want to go??

Nothing that can`t be repaired but is it cost effective for you ??
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Old 04-24-2018, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by L5wolvesf View Post
Knowing where you are is helpful in this situation - so put you city and or state in below your name.
Presuming you're in the middle of the rust belt . . .

You can fix those things but I have to wonder - is the whole truck worth the time/money/effort?
Is getting another frame a better use if time/resources? Then, if needed, take a couple pieces of this frame to repair another - just a thought.

I hope you're not driving it with the LCA like that.
Iíll update my profile. Iím in southern CT, so rust is a daily battle. Iíve been thinking of getting a better frame, or a new frame by...I forgot the guyís name but Iíve seen his name mentioned around here. He makes really good quality frames...

If this frame is toast, I donít see getting an old frame thatís in decent shape being a real option. Itíll be good for a few years, but will inevidibly contract the aids. I feel a new frame thatís perhaps designed slightly different is a better way to go, but thatíll probably cost $5k, haha. Anyone sell a stainless frame?

Yes, Iím currently driving this every day. Itís my only vehicle not including my motorcycle. If I die, someone come to my house and feed my fish.
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by wyoming9 View Post
Given any thoughts to a Solid axle swap ??

In any case when all finished your going to need a front end alignment I bet all 4Cam bolts are seized ??

While your there what are the Ball joints like the steering parts??

I hope this is a project and no pressure to get this done .

Have access to a sand blaster to get the worst off the rust off.

When you work on the frame and remove cross members I always add something to keep the frame from moving when the old one is removed .

Lots of work here Just how big a budget and just how far do you want to go??

Nothing that can`t be repaired but is it cost effective for you ??
I havenít even heard of a solid axle swap, seems like a lot more work. This is just a daily driver and I donít go off roading or anything. Just to the train station and to make Home Depot runs. I just really love these trucks. Maybe Iím a terrorist at heart.

I bet the bolts arent siezed. They actually donít look bad. Donít want to try to free them though... Steering parts and ball joints are fine. I mentioned above that I realized the state of the truck because of some recent work I did. That recent work was replacing the left axle (torn boot), left upper and lower ball joints, left and right shocks and sway bar end links. I was getting a clunking noise over bumps and found the upper ball joint to be the problem, it was all loose. Everything else I replaced just because I was there but it was fine. Passenger side doesnít look bad at all.

Good idea for the adding a temporary brace. Iíll tack in some round tubing.

And yeah, I hear you regarding the money and time vs getting a new vehicle or new frame or something. As I said, itís a daily driver but might get another vehicle to keep this off the road...hmm decisions decisions.

Last edited by Davebarbier; 04-24-2018 at 04:11 AM.
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Old 04-24-2018, 05:01 AM
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Dave i think what wyoming maybe eluding to with a solid axle swap (SAS) is the rust looks pretty severe on the control arm mount and trying to rebuild that would be challenging, not impossible. In going with a SAS setup you would bypass having to fix all that. Lots of SAS threads on here to read thru that would give you an idea of what is involved.

cheers
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Old 04-24-2018, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy A View Post
Dave i think what wyoming maybe eluding to with a solid axle swap (SAS) is the rust looks pretty severe on the control arm mount and trying to rebuild that would be challenging, not impossible. In going with a SAS setup you would bypass having to fix all that. Lots of SAS threads on here to read thru that would give you an idea of what is involved.

cheers
Oh I see. Iíll look in to that. It does appear that the front part of my frame is rusty, but nowhere near a problem. Thanks Wyoming, and thanks Andy for the clarification.
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Old 04-24-2018, 05:46 AM
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Just did some searching and it seems itís going to cost at least around $2000 all said and done. I didnít know there was fab work involved. Thought it was a bolt on swap. If Iím going to do that, Iíd rather just get a new frame I think. I donít need an SAS. I use 4WD only in winter on flat roads or sometimes at the farm. Those build are really fun reads though, haha.
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Old 04-24-2018, 05:49 AM
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I think Iím going to weld up the rear, weld in the new square tubing piece in front and then decide on the LCA mounts. I have all the steel needed so itís essentially free. (Yes the square tubing I bought for $20 and Iíll have to buy beer so it wonít be totally free, but I have everything else.
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:12 AM
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As far as the lower control arm mounts, a SAS may be your best option. Someone else doing a SAS, that is. If someone else is doing a SAS on their truck they will inevitably cut that exact part off their truck. Depending on where they cut and how cleanly, and depending how handy you are, you could graft that back in. I see people all the time listing the front suspension for sale in a pile on the ground.
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by arlindsay1992 View Post
As far as the lower control arm mounts, a SAS may be your best option. Someone else doing a SAS, that is. If someone else is doing a SAS on their truck they will inevitably cut that exact part off their truck. Depending on where they cut and how cleanly, and depending how handy you are, you could graft that back in. I see people all the time listing the front suspension for sale in a pile on the ground.
Hmm, I like that approach. Iíll look around the classified section. Might be nice to get some better control arms also and get them powder coated.
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Old 04-26-2018, 01:55 PM
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Been thinking about rust prevention and such. I will fix my current frame but eventually I want to get a new frame. Iím going to turn my truck as a daily driver into a project.

Anyone know who makes aftermarket frames? BudBuilt does NOT make frames for the Toyota Pickup. I read a few posts on here that said he was in the process of making a jig for them back in 2009, but that hasnít come to fruition apparently. Jackie from BudBuilt gave me the bad news.

Anyone else make frames? Getting an old frame from an existing truck isnít ideal as the ones locally (where I could go visit it) have still lived their lives in the salt and snow and I feel it would be hard to get a good donor. The ones farther away I wouldnít be able to actually see the condition. So new or refurbished sounds like the best.

As far as coating the frame, since these frames rust from the inside out I see little reason to POR15 or paint the exterior only. It seems if youíre going to prep the inside and outside (I assume media blasting) the best protection would be hot dipped galvanizing.

Thoughts? I think Iím willing to spend up to $3k all said and done.

As an aside, thereís a guy who restores old Land Rovers 4 houses down from me. Seriously legit setup he has. I should talk to him about this stuff. Check out his website if youíre interested, itís super cool.

http://www.northamericaoverland.com/

Last edited by Davebarbier; 04-26-2018 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 04-27-2018, 01:16 PM
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Been looking around CT for galvanizing places and found one place so far thatís close. They do duplex coating (galvanized then paint or powder coated). Sent them an email for a quote. Hope to hear back with some good news.

What frames will fit on my pickup? Iíve been searching online for used frames in good condition but itís not easy. Anyone have a good resource for frame finding? Do people sell frames here on this site? I havenít seen any in the classifieds section.

Help would be be greatly appreciated! I might want to do this sooner rather than later! If Iím not totally ready for the frame swap I can just hold onto the galvíd frame in my shed. Frame should last about 75 years
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Old 04-27-2018, 01:23 PM
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Red face

Sounds Like you have the skills Build your own frame.

If you find a decent used one most likely in the Southwest USA if you need to pay for shipping it gonna be expensive

The hot set up for the Tacoma`s they say is a applying Fluid film every fall and keeping after things
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Old 04-27-2018, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by wyoming9 View Post
Sounds Like you have the skills Build your own frame.

If you find a decent used one most likely in the Southwest USA if you need to pay for shipping it gonna be expensive

The hot set up for the Tacoma`s they say is a applying Fluid film every fall and keeping after things
Oh jeez, not sure I can take on building my own frame, haha. I donít trust myself that much.

As for fluid filming, yeah I hear consistent upkeep is the key. But if itís galvanized and powder coated...not sure Iíll have any upkeep. Might even store my extra salt inside the frame for safe keeping without the worry of it rusting through
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