Another 3vze (just a story with a plan)
10-05-2009, 08:53 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another 3vze (just a story with a plan)
Hey Guys,
A while back I had the pleasure of 'inheriting' a 91 from a good friend of mine (he picked up a WRX and passed me the 4runner). Unfortunately its and auto, but that will simplify a 1uzfe swap later I'm hoping.
A week after he gave it to me, the headgasket died for the 2nd or 3rd time in its life. Not knowing much better, and not really caring either I spent 100 bucks on a gasket set from partsdinosaur.com (awesome guy), and threw it back together. Also, after the first non-recall replacement, my buddy had ordered DOA head studs.
Fast forward to now, the HG has gone again (cylinder 6 surprise surprise). Heads are off and sent to resurface this time since I know better, and the block is out on a stand. Spark plug 6 lost its ceramic and peppered the piston so I ordered a new set of pistons, rings, bearings, and gaskets. cylinders 1-5 still have factory cross-hatching which is amazing, but number 6 is a little worse for wear. Most likely I'll make sure the ring gap isn't huge, quick hone, and throw it together (not building for long term so whatever)
The car has had a fairly consistent crappy idle with a little shake, but has always managed to drive well. Also, the Power steering leaks at the column to rack junction and the rear main seal, although new, leaks as well somewhere.
Anyway, heres the plan. I appreciate all comments, advice, and suggestions, however, keep in mind the goal for the car at this point is to run strong to move me 5 hours away a couple of trips loaded with stuff, and the sit paitently waiting for a 1uzfe swap.
heads surfaced (done already)
new pistons/rings/bearings and gaskets including rear main seal replacement and hopefully power steering rebuild (tired of the driveway mess).
starter contacts
test all fuel injectors electrically (cold start injector may be having some issues)
pass smog and then ISR to eliminate some possible leaks etc (that hose is pretty gone)
so far ive spent under $300 and considering the engine is slated for replacement, I'm not keen on tons more money into it. That being said, i'll probably want to pick up a hitch to tow my two sportbikes during the move at the end of the year, and I don't want the thing to die in the process.
I was also contemplating heatwrapping ex mani's and crossover (don't care if they die long term, just don't want anotehr HG failure)
A while back I had the pleasure of 'inheriting' a 91 from a good friend of mine (he picked up a WRX and passed me the 4runner). Unfortunately its and auto, but that will simplify a 1uzfe swap later I'm hoping.
A week after he gave it to me, the headgasket died for the 2nd or 3rd time in its life. Not knowing much better, and not really caring either I spent 100 bucks on a gasket set from partsdinosaur.com (awesome guy), and threw it back together. Also, after the first non-recall replacement, my buddy had ordered DOA head studs.
Fast forward to now, the HG has gone again (cylinder 6 surprise surprise). Heads are off and sent to resurface this time since I know better, and the block is out on a stand. Spark plug 6 lost its ceramic and peppered the piston so I ordered a new set of pistons, rings, bearings, and gaskets. cylinders 1-5 still have factory cross-hatching which is amazing, but number 6 is a little worse for wear. Most likely I'll make sure the ring gap isn't huge, quick hone, and throw it together (not building for long term so whatever)
The car has had a fairly consistent crappy idle with a little shake, but has always managed to drive well. Also, the Power steering leaks at the column to rack junction and the rear main seal, although new, leaks as well somewhere.
Anyway, heres the plan. I appreciate all comments, advice, and suggestions, however, keep in mind the goal for the car at this point is to run strong to move me 5 hours away a couple of trips loaded with stuff, and the sit paitently waiting for a 1uzfe swap.
heads surfaced (done already)
new pistons/rings/bearings and gaskets including rear main seal replacement and hopefully power steering rebuild (tired of the driveway mess).
starter contacts
test all fuel injectors electrically (cold start injector may be having some issues)
pass smog and then ISR to eliminate some possible leaks etc (that hose is pretty gone)
so far ive spent under $300 and considering the engine is slated for replacement, I'm not keen on tons more money into it. That being said, i'll probably want to pick up a hitch to tow my two sportbikes during the move at the end of the year, and I don't want the thing to die in the process.
I was also contemplating heatwrapping ex mani's and crossover (don't care if they die long term, just don't want anotehr HG failure)
10-05-2009, 06:07 PM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Normally, I would use a set of telescoping gauges and a micrometer or a dial bore gauge to measure the cylinder bore in several directions and many points.
Given that the original crosshatching is still present on 5 of the cylinders, i can be 99% sure that they are within spec. The 6th, since I'm doing a quick and dirty job here, I took a piston ring and compared the end gap when inserted into number 6 and number 4. The end gap is virtually identical and there is no noticeable wear on #6 other than the surface appearance.
With regard to honing, it removes a very very very minimal amount of material if done correctly, so it will not really affect the size of the cylinder in this case. If the cylinder walls were damaged more, then you would need to bore and hone all cylinders oversize and then would need oversize pistons/rings.
Given that, and that in less than 10K miles this motor should be replaced by a 1uzfe, It's going to go all back together as normal. The only issue is that piston 6 has some damage from a messed up spark plug, so I'm throwing in a cheap set of new pistons/rings.
I'll see what I can do about finding my camera and take some pictures of everything.
As an update, I picked up the heads from my shop today. he took 9 thousandths off them to clean them up, confirmed there was a small deviation where the head gasket blew (both times) and there is virtually no leakage of air through the valves (plenty good enough for this build).
Given that the original crosshatching is still present on 5 of the cylinders, i can be 99% sure that they are within spec. The 6th, since I'm doing a quick and dirty job here, I took a piston ring and compared the end gap when inserted into number 6 and number 4. The end gap is virtually identical and there is no noticeable wear on #6 other than the surface appearance.
With regard to honing, it removes a very very very minimal amount of material if done correctly, so it will not really affect the size of the cylinder in this case. If the cylinder walls were damaged more, then you would need to bore and hone all cylinders oversize and then would need oversize pistons/rings.
Given that, and that in less than 10K miles this motor should be replaced by a 1uzfe, It's going to go all back together as normal. The only issue is that piston 6 has some damage from a messed up spark plug, so I'm throwing in a cheap set of new pistons/rings.
I'll see what I can do about finding my camera and take some pictures of everything.
As an update, I picked up the heads from my shop today. he took 9 thousandths off them to clean them up, confirmed there was a small deviation where the head gasket blew (both times) and there is virtually no leakage of air through the valves (plenty good enough for this build).
10-05-2009, 06:58 PM
#4
Registered User
Sounds like a good plan. Couple questions - I don't remember offhand what the max is for shaving off the heads - do you know what was removed by the dealer in the first go-round? And have you checked the block for any low spots, especially around #6?
You might have replaced the valve seals, but I don't know the miles - could be fine.
Did you wind up with the redesigned gaskets with steel slipperplate? If so, you should be in good shape there.
Check your valve clearances - they tend to tighten up on this motor, leading to burning.
Sometimes what is taken to be a rear main seal leak actually comes from the valve covers, which do tend to leak, especially passenger side in back. Try black rtv on both sides of the gaskets and camshaft plugs when you reassemble.
If you get your compression up to par and your valves clear the pistons (!), it should be possible to get it running good.
Oh, and you might try running Valvoline MaxLife in it, if you're worried about any of the seals - the guys over at the bobistheoilguy forum seem to think its the bees knees.
You might have replaced the valve seals, but I don't know the miles - could be fine.
Did you wind up with the redesigned gaskets with steel slipperplate? If so, you should be in good shape there.
Check your valve clearances - they tend to tighten up on this motor, leading to burning.
Sometimes what is taken to be a rear main seal leak actually comes from the valve covers, which do tend to leak, especially passenger side in back. Try black rtv on both sides of the gaskets and camshaft plugs when you reassemble.
If you get your compression up to par and your valves clear the pistons (!), it should be possible to get it running good.
Oh, and you might try running Valvoline MaxLife in it, if you're worried about any of the seals - the guys over at the bobistheoilguy forum seem to think its the bees knees.
Last edited by sb5walker; 12-07-2010 at 10:29 AM.
10-05-2009, 09:59 PM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
awesome. I'll take any and all suggestions, particularly about fluids to help keep this thing going strong.
To be honest, The car was my best friends dads car when it had the recall done, But from the sound of things, I'd be surprised if they surfaced the heads. We only took off about 9 thou this time, and my machinist has owned two 3.0's before so he would probably have an idea if it was too much.
Block checks out flat. My guy said there was a noticeable abnormality in the head right where the failed gasket was, which likely explains why it blew even with DOA studs.
Car only has 165Kish miles so most of it seems to check out okay. I'm pretty confident the recurring problem is due to lack of resurfacing. The pistons and all bearings are going in new on this build since its cheap insurance. (the bearings, despite running with coolant in the oil held up fine with just a little embedding.
Valve seals seem in fine shape, there isn't really any sign of oil leaking past them (no smoke on start up or anytime except after the HG blew which was tons of coolant in #6)
I will take a look at the rear of the block, but I always throw some fipg on the gaskets, so I'm thinking the seal just didn't work out properly last go around)
I had somewhat of a hard start condition that was kindof odd. After cold soak, it would take a bit to get going, and rarely it just wouldn't start (woul crank and crank and crank). New cap and rotor, same issue. But oddly, if i banged on the cap with a mallet or a shoe or anything really, it would just start up.
That one's still got me confused. (im actually thinking that part, although repeatable, is a coincidence, and it has something to do with the CSI)
To be honest, The car was my best friends dads car when it had the recall done, But from the sound of things, I'd be surprised if they surfaced the heads. We only took off about 9 thou this time, and my machinist has owned two 3.0's before so he would probably have an idea if it was too much.
Block checks out flat. My guy said there was a noticeable abnormality in the head right where the failed gasket was, which likely explains why it blew even with DOA studs.
Car only has 165Kish miles so most of it seems to check out okay. I'm pretty confident the recurring problem is due to lack of resurfacing. The pistons and all bearings are going in new on this build since its cheap insurance. (the bearings, despite running with coolant in the oil held up fine with just a little embedding.
Valve seals seem in fine shape, there isn't really any sign of oil leaking past them (no smoke on start up or anytime except after the HG blew which was tons of coolant in #6)
I will take a look at the rear of the block, but I always throw some fipg on the gaskets, so I'm thinking the seal just didn't work out properly last go around)
I had somewhat of a hard start condition that was kindof odd. After cold soak, it would take a bit to get going, and rarely it just wouldn't start (woul crank and crank and crank). New cap and rotor, same issue. But oddly, if i banged on the cap with a mallet or a shoe or anything really, it would just start up.
That one's still got me confused. (im actually thinking that part, although repeatable, is a coincidence, and it has something to do with the CSI)
10-06-2009, 01:12 PM
#6
Registered User
The cap issue may be a red herring, but when you get it together there are many round here who can help you find the trouble if it persists.
You may already know, but one thing I learned about my veezy is that it's tough to get all the air out of the coolant loop. The heater hoses are higher than the rad, and air gets trapped there, (and when filling the radiator, the thermostat stops coolant from entering the engine that way).
Try elevating the front so the top of the radiator is higher than all the heater hoses, turn heat all the way to hot to open the heater core, remove the upper rad hose from the radiator and pour coolant in there to fill the engine, then reattach and fill the rad. You may want to have the motor level when you first start it to make sure oil gets around to all your new parts, but to fully burp the cooling system it may be necessary to again lift the front end and run the motor, refilling rad as necessary. If you hear bubbling or water flowing noises in your heater, you know you've still got some air trapped in there.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...nt-faq-192781/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...diator-131062/
You may already know, but one thing I learned about my veezy is that it's tough to get all the air out of the coolant loop. The heater hoses are higher than the rad, and air gets trapped there, (and when filling the radiator, the thermostat stops coolant from entering the engine that way).
Try elevating the front so the top of the radiator is higher than all the heater hoses, turn heat all the way to hot to open the heater core, remove the upper rad hose from the radiator and pour coolant in there to fill the engine, then reattach and fill the rad. You may want to have the motor level when you first start it to make sure oil gets around to all your new parts, but to fully burp the cooling system it may be necessary to again lift the front end and run the motor, refilling rad as necessary. If you hear bubbling or water flowing noises in your heater, you know you've still got some air trapped in there.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...nt-faq-192781/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...diator-131062/
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
v_man
86-95 Trucks & 4Runners
14
07-23-2015 04:01 PM
