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86-95 Trucks & 4Runners 2nd/3rd gen pickups, and 1st/2nd gen 4Runners with IFS

almost killed in snow (driving tips needed)

Old Dec 29, 2009 | 11:10 AM
  #21  
dwnhiller93's Avatar
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From: Pocatello, ID
Originally Posted by 92 TOY
based on my experience, 1/2'' snow is more dangerous than 3''.

nothing abraupt, better to drive through someone's yard or mailbox than hitting someone head-on...grass can be re-planted.

keep hubs locked...for readiness and it's recommended every so often (i remember reading that)...i too, would keep my hubs locked.

let the engine slow you down.

most of it is experience.

Oh yeah,don't EVER be over confident because you have a 4wd
Do not let the engine slow you down. Tires will break loose easier. Use your brakes and be sure to break extremely early if you know the road is slippery. Its just common sense. If you don't have ABS, pump them if they lock up.
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Old Dec 29, 2009 | 11:25 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by ilostmypants
now when you say downshifting into low rpm good. vs downshifting into high rpm bad
like downshifting earlier to slow yourself down instead of waiting until l you are at the speed appropriate for the gear downshifted into right?
Ideally you want to rev match the engine speed to the speed of the lower gear you are shifting to. That way there won't be an abrupt change in wheel speed (i.e. skidding) when you let out the clutch. So for example if you are in 3rd gear @ 2000 RPM at some speed and if you shifted into 2nd gear the engine would be at say 3000 RPM, then you would want to clutch in, shift out of 3rd, blip the throttle to get the engine up to about 3000, then shift to 2nd and let the clutch out.

I personally find engine braking in 4WD is much more effective than using the regular brakes since engine braking is a very good ABS system (as long as you don't push it too hard). Why? With the engine running and in gear, the tires keep turning as you slow down. With just brakes, it is too easy to lock up one or more tires (no ABS on my '85). So I engine brake down to 1st gear then only use the wheel brakes to come to a stop from a low speed.
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Old Dec 29, 2009 | 12:03 PM
  #23  
shaeff's Avatar
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From: Hudson Valley, NY
Originally Posted by 4Crawler
Ideally you want to rev match the engine speed to the speed of the lower gear you are shifting to. That way there won't be an abrupt change in wheel speed (i.e. skidding) when you let out the clutch. So for example if you are in 3rd gear @ 2000 RPM at some speed and if you shifted into 2nd gear the engine would be at say 3000 RPM, then you would want to clutch in, shift out of 3rd, blip the throttle to get the engine up to about 3000, then shift to 2nd and let the clutch out.

I personally find engine braking in 4WD is much more effective than using the regular brakes since engine braking is a very good ABS system (as long as you don't push it too hard). Why? With the engine running and in gear, the tires keep turning as you slow down. With just brakes, it is too easy to lock up one or more tires (no ABS on my '85). So I engine brake down to 1st gear then only use the wheel brakes to come to a stop from a low speed.
I'm happy someone mentioned exactly this. Great post, R! I rev match on a daily basis. In snow or slippery conditions, I engine brake all the way to first gear. If I have to brake, I try to do it with the truck in gear to lessen the chance of a single tire locking up.
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Old Dec 29, 2009 | 12:38 PM
  #24  
AzStorm's Avatar
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From: HELL,AKA Phoenix,Arizona
SNOW? Whats THAT?

Lots of good advice here!!

I did a quick search and there are 7 driving schools in your area.
Find one with a skidpad and practice your skills.
Its worth the little $ you'll spend and could be a lifesaver for you and others.
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Old Dec 29, 2009 | 02:17 PM
  #25  
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go out and find a big empty parking lot preferably with no car or light poles, try to find out how your truck reacts there in the snow in different situations. use 4wd and 2wd slide around a bit maneuver around hit the brakes ect... just try to get a feel for your truck and how it drives in the snow. putting weight in the back does help a lot with traction too. when i had my 2wd ranger years ago i used cinder blocks in the back held in place with a wooden box so they didnt slide around and it worked wonders.
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Old Dec 29, 2009 | 02:17 PM
  #26  
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From: nanaimo British Columbia Canada
i always shift down and let off the clutch slowly i barely use the brakes because i dont want to lock up all 4 wheels
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Old Dec 29, 2009 | 02:25 PM
  #27  
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From: North Bay, Ontario
Get some snow rated tires. I put some Goodyear Wrangler Territories on mine and they are excellent (they are only sold at Canadian Tire). Compared to my truck with M/Ts, the snow tires on my Runner are a world of difference (yes the rear end weight of the Runner is a factor too). My advice is simply just slow down and give lots of space.
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Old Dec 29, 2009 | 04:05 PM
  #28  
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From: West of LIttle Rock near a lake, AR, USA
Go find that Parking lot and practice. Experience pays off. Dad sent me to an empty lot the first snow of my driving career; it was a blast and educational.

Drive slow and watch the other drivers.
Don't do anything quickly, plan ahead for any change of direction (turn, stop, go)

That's my advice from Arkansas, where we get ice and maybe snow every few years.
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Old Dec 29, 2009 | 05:33 PM
  #29  
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From: Pgh, PA
If your that uncomfortable driving in it, stay home or get a ride with someone who will not wipe out everything in site before leaving the spot your parked in. I lose money but the roads are safer...
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Old Dec 29, 2009 | 05:59 PM
  #30  
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From: Thornton, Colorado
Each person is more comfortable with different methods. Personally I rarely downshift to slow down on ice, you need to feather the clutch, let it out to quickly and there you go sliding. I do keep it in a lower gear on icy roads so when you let of the gas there is more engine braking without hitting the clutch. If I am sliding I have the best luck with the clutch in and brake pumping. Once you start sliding you need the tires to start rolling the same speed as the ground below them to get the best traction, the best way for this to happen is pushing the clutch in. Then pumping the brakes allows for the tires to grab for a moment, not lock, regain any traction that was lost and then grab again. However, you don't do this if you have ABS, because it is doing this exact process for you. This may not work the best for others but it has for me.

Also if you have "hand brake" e-brake it can come in handy if you know how to use it right, but it takes practice. If for some reason you need to turn and you stay going strait when you turn the wheel a hit on the hand brake will slide it quick.
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Old Dec 29, 2009 | 06:00 PM
  #31  
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Well, I'm going to add my 2 cents to the mix.

There are three types of traction: static, rolling, and sliding. Static (you're stopped) is obviously the best. Rolling is second best, with sliding being the worst.

Most skids are a result of setting two or all four wheels into a sliding traction mode, be it by braking, accelerating, downshifting, or steering too quickly. Your goal, then, becomes regaining rolling traction. Only problem is, where are you sliding to?

First, you need to get your eyes up in the direction where you want to put your vehicle. Almost all drivers drop their eyes down or look at what they're trying to NOT hit.

Bad idea. A very simple rule to driving is W.Y.L.I.W.Y.G. Where You Look Is Where You Go. One of the most common driving errors is that people tend to look less than 10 seconds ahead of themselves. Watch your own driving next time and see how often you're staring at the back of the vehicle in front of you.

You need to keep your eyes up as far ahead as you can, but don't neglect the near-field areas, too. From your front bumper on ahead to at least 30 seconds, where possible. That way you'll be able to see what the other drivers are doing and react much, much sooner, instead of being caught off guard by something.

Now that your eyes are up ahead, steer towards that point. Next step, get your wheels rolling again. Did the skid start because of abrupt braking? Get your foot off the brakes. Too much acceleration caused wheel spin? Get off the gas. Downshifting caused you to loose traction? Punch the clutch in, shift to neutral or hit the throttle. You need rolling traction.

Pumping the brakes is a terrible way to stop, but an easy method to learn. The only time you're getting braking is on the way down and on the way back up again. Assuming you could pump very fast, you're getting maybe 50% braking. Threshold braking is a much more effecient way to stop, but harder to learn.

Essentially, you want to get as close to sliding traction as you can, while still maintaining rolling traction. Start by braking medium hard, about 80%, then slowly increase pressure until you think you're about to slide. If you hit 100% and start to slide, lift/curl your toes up towards the top of your shoe until you regain rolling traction. If you go up too high, say to 95%, then reapply gently until you get close to 99% again. Harder to master, but the most effecient way to lose speed.

Remember that intersections are the slipperiest places to stop, consider all the other 'tards on the road like to brake too late then hammer the throttle when it's time to go. Slow earlier, especially on downhill slopes, using a combination of gentle braking. Who's behind you? Has someone been tailgaiting you on the way up? Braking lightly but early gives them a head's up, but the only way you're going to know they're there is by using your mirror every 5-8 seconds and before slowing.

Have you left room in front to decelerate and avoid rear-ending the guy in front of you? Or have you left an out in case the guy behind starts to slide? If you have a little roll as the guy approaches from behind, escaping out of the way is far easier if you've left room in front.

Look for snow vs ice when braking. Snow offers roughly twice the traction that ice does. If the intersection is hard packed ice, but there is some snow near the center line or curb, ease into it.

Scan intersections early. If the guy to your left or right is sliding through the stop sign or red light, having your brake covered at 30 miles per hour (50 km/h) can stop you roughly 30' (10 m) quicker than not having it covered.

First in line at the light when it turns green? Scan it left, center and right as your foot heads to the gas pedal. Delaying a second and a half to two seconds can cut your risk of a side impact by about 66%.

Turn your lights on anytime you drive. The additional visibility you give yourself can make you easier to see in the blowing snow and low light conditions common with winter driving.

That's enough for now, I think. Be prepared by equipping your vehicle, maintaining it properly, and leaving yourself extra time.

Last edited by RobD; Dec 29, 2009 at 06:02 PM.
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Old Dec 29, 2009 | 06:16 PM
  #32  
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What you did is what drifters call "shift-lock" to start the drift.

Slapping the truck into 2nd without matching revs will apply braking force to your rear tires, causing the start of the skid.

Next time, don't use the engine and trans to slow you down. That's what brakes are for. Use the engine and trans to get going.

Shift into lower gear when you're going more slowly. Brake first, then shift while blipping gas to match the revs.

Get snow tires.

I also usually air down my tires a bit on snow. Normally I run 24psi all around in my pickup, except when hauling loads. In snow, I run 18-20psi or sometimes lower.
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Old Dec 29, 2009 | 06:42 PM
  #33  
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gotta watch out with using 4x4 to get out of a slide, do it the wrong way and your really gonna have a fun time.
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Old Dec 30, 2009 | 05:15 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by RobD

Pumping the brakes is a terrible way to stop, but an easy method to learn. The only time you're getting braking is on the way down and on the way back up again. Assuming you could pump very fast, you're getting maybe 50% braking. Threshold braking is a much more effecient way to stop, but harder to learn.

Essentially, you want to get as close to sliding traction as you can, while still maintaining rolling traction. Start by braking medium hard, about 80%, then slowly increase pressure until you think you're about to slide. If you hit 100% and start to slide, lift/curl your toes up towards the top of your shoe until you regain rolling traction. If you go up too high, say to 95%, then reapply gently until you get close to 99% again. Harder to master, but the most effecient way to lose speed.
This is how I brake on the snow/ice. It is amazing how much traction there is. The trick it to learn how to use that traction and not lose it. Once lost, the trick is to regain the traction.

Good post.
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Old Dec 30, 2009 | 05:52 AM
  #35  
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Na you folks have it all wrong...Just take out that middle pedal and hang it in the garage. No use in havin it in winter all it will do is make your rear go first and I don't think you want that.


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Old Dec 30, 2009 | 11:13 AM
  #36  
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From: The Gorge
Drive smooth; be light on brakes, gas and clutch; don't make any sudden or jerky moves that will break the wheels loose.
Don't overreact; like over steering in a skid or heavily stomping the brakes; that makes things worse.
Weight in the back is a good idea. I have a "tube sand" bag over each of my rear wheels of my pickup. I can go 90% of the places my 4Runner can go. Without the sandbags; I have a tough time getting out of the snowy driveway.
If you have 4X4; use it. Better safe than sorry. Sometimes I go without 4X4 in my 4Runner to save gas when I should be using it; a quick skid usually makes me forget about a few bucks at the gas pump.
Aim for something soft. Sometimes; you ain't gonna pull it. Try and control the situation as much as you can and aim for a snowpile or shallow ditch instead of a tree or cliff.
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Old Dec 30, 2009 | 03:38 PM
  #37  
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I use engine braking only in 4wd when it is generally slippery enough that you would not be able to stand on your 2 feet on the ice. It is a sin for a trucker to use engine braking (jake brake) on snow or ice since only the drivers are affected (trailer will pass the truck), with 4wd it does allow both axles to brake when done smoothly, without the grabbing effect of brakes. Braking in 4wd is also better as it is easier to control the lock-up. The key is to anticipate the conditions a head of time, other drivers, allow plenty of time to slow down and come to a stop, and winter tires are priceless.
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Old Dec 31, 2009 | 10:36 PM
  #38  
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Don't sweat putting it in 4wd if roads are slick. It doesn't hurt to drive 4wd on dry cold pavement either. The components are tough enough to handle it. If there's any snow, I use 4wd unless I just want to have fun sliding around.
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Old Jan 1, 2010 | 03:25 AM
  #39  
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From: I live in New Tripoli Pa out in the woods
One thing that no one has mentioned is temperature. That is one of the most important things in my way of looking at winter driving . Driving on snow pack in below zero F temps is so different then the same road at 30 to 32 F

As the temperature increases the amount of water in the snow or ice increases could be man made from salt or just the air temperature rising .

If you have ever watched figure skating (yuck) that is why they always have that thin layer of water . To make the ice all the more slippery.

I have seen this temperature played out many times just going out my driveway in the morning while still dark and cold no problem 2wd right out to the township road . 500 feet long 50' in elevation

If it is warm out like now @30F it will be a 4wd morning.

Of course all the others tips are great weight over the rear axle, good tires , proper speeds and following distance . My self i tend to stay home if i do need to go out i seek out the roads less traveled as far from idiots as possible
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Old Jan 1, 2010 | 04:37 AM
  #40  
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one way to avoid all issue's with winter driving.......... stay home Dont go out unless ya have to. In our last storm I was rearended by little miss blue hair who just could'nt get her 98 chevy pos slowed down in time. Just nocked paint off my hitch, but man o man it jacked her car up! She was bord and went for a ride. expensive ride.
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