90 Toyota Sr5 Pickup Gear Problem?
03-22-2010, 05:25 PM
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90 Toyota Sr5 Pickup Gear Problem?
Hello everyone im haveing trouble with my 90 sr5 4x4 3.0vze, not haveing any power in 4th or 5th gear and my odometer is of by about 10 to 12 miles per hour.
when i bought the truck it had 31" tires and when they wore out i switched to 235 75 15 but even with the 31" you had to run it about 65 to 70 miles per hour to do 55mph now with the 235's i have to run about 76mph to do 55 i use my gps unit to check my speed and i also account for the satellite lag. the tag on the truck says i have A/TM G254/ Gears but im not sure if the guy before me changed them. i also have a clickinh in the rearend even a clunck when i go into turns. my question is a few years ago i read that you can tell what gears you have by marking the tire and seeing how many times the drive shaft turns. i cant find that post any help would be great i found this https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...osting-204178/
ok i have found the post i was looking for https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f120...-match-200167/ but does anyone no why i have great power in 1st 2nd and 3rd gear and none in 4th or 5th i mean none i cant even drive on flat ground with out the rpms dropping around 1000rpms and no trottle response in those gears ?
when i bought the truck it had 31" tires and when they wore out i switched to 235 75 15 but even with the 31" you had to run it about 65 to 70 miles per hour to do 55mph now with the 235's i have to run about 76mph to do 55 i use my gps unit to check my speed and i also account for the satellite lag. the tag on the truck says i have A/TM G254/ Gears but im not sure if the guy before me changed them. i also have a clickinh in the rearend even a clunck when i go into turns. my question is a few years ago i read that you can tell what gears you have by marking the tire and seeing how many times the drive shaft turns. i cant find that post any help would be great i found this https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...osting-204178/
ok i have found the post i was looking for https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f120...-match-200167/ but does anyone no why i have great power in 1st 2nd and 3rd gear and none in 4th or 5th i mean none i cant even drive on flat ground with out the rpms dropping around 1000rpms and no trottle response in those gears ?
Last edited by Dan_P; 03-22-2010 at 05:34 PM.
03-22-2010, 06:50 PM
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I have no idea. I'm confused about the speedometer being off. What was stock tire size on that? I am assuming stock tire size is smaller than 31". If you install larger tires, you should be going FASTER than what the speedometer says, not slower.
If you are in fact only traveling 55 MPH when the speedometer says 76 MPH, even with the larger tires, you must have a VERY high gear ratio. Like 8 or 9 :1 LOL (That is a bit of an exaggeration.) I don't think you have stock gearing.
As for the low power in 4th and 5th gears: Did this problem start suddenly or slowly? I would start with the basic compression check on all cylinders. I would want to rule out any problem with the engine first.
Second hair-brain idea: In the slim chance your truck has been sitting for a long time, check the brakes, especially the front calipers. The calipers seized up on my truck from sitting, and was constantly holding pressure. Even though it would drive in 1st or 2nd gear, it hated 3rd and 4th. But it was noticeable in all the gears, so this is very unlikely for your vehicle. Still, it's a good thing to rule out. If you get your jack out, lift up one wheel at a time and see how easy it is to spin by hand, that will rule out that possibility.
The clunk and clicking from the rearend is obviously a problem, I would start looking into that next.
Keep us posted. Sorry I don't have any better theories at this time.
If you are in fact only traveling 55 MPH when the speedometer says 76 MPH, even with the larger tires, you must have a VERY high gear ratio. Like 8 or 9 :1 LOL (That is a bit of an exaggeration.) I don't think you have stock gearing.
As for the low power in 4th and 5th gears: Did this problem start suddenly or slowly? I would start with the basic compression check on all cylinders. I would want to rule out any problem with the engine first.
Second hair-brain idea: In the slim chance your truck has been sitting for a long time, check the brakes, especially the front calipers. The calipers seized up on my truck from sitting, and was constantly holding pressure. Even though it would drive in 1st or 2nd gear, it hated 3rd and 4th. But it was noticeable in all the gears, so this is very unlikely for your vehicle. Still, it's a good thing to rule out. If you get your jack out, lift up one wheel at a time and see how easy it is to spin by hand, that will rule out that possibility.
The clunk and clicking from the rearend is obviously a problem, I would start looking into that next.
Keep us posted. Sorry I don't have any better theories at this time.
03-22-2010, 07:00 PM
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I have no idea. I'm confused about the speedometer being off. What was stock tire size on that? I am assuming stock tire size is smaller than 31". If you install larger tires, you should be going FASTER than what the speedometer says, not slower.
If you are in fact only traveling 55 miles per hour when the speedometer says 76 miles per hour, even with the larger tires, you must have a VERY high gear ratio. Like 8 or 9 :1 LOL (That is a bit of an exaggeration.) I don't think you have stock gearing.
As for the low power in 4th and 5th gears: Did this problem start suddenly or slowly? I would start with the basic compression check on all cylinders. I would want to rule out any problem with the engine first.
Second hair-brain idea: In the slim chance your truck has been sitting for a long time, check the brakes, especially the front calipers. The calipers seized up on my truck from sitting, and was constantly holding pressure. Even though it would drive in 1st or 2nd gear, it hated 3rd and 4th. But it was noticeable in all the gears, so this is very unlikely for your vehicle. Still, it's a good thing to rule out. If you get your jack out, lift up one wheel at a time and see how easy it is to spin by hand, that will rule out that possibility.
The clunk and clicking from the rearend is obviously a problem, I would start looking into that next.
Keep us posted. Sorry I don't have any better theories at this time.
If you are in fact only traveling 55 miles per hour when the speedometer says 76 miles per hour, even with the larger tires, you must have a VERY high gear ratio. Like 8 or 9 :1 LOL (That is a bit of an exaggeration.) I don't think you have stock gearing.
As for the low power in 4th and 5th gears: Did this problem start suddenly or slowly? I would start with the basic compression check on all cylinders. I would want to rule out any problem with the engine first.
Second hair-brain idea: In the slim chance your truck has been sitting for a long time, check the brakes, especially the front calipers. The calipers seized up on my truck from sitting, and was constantly holding pressure. Even though it would drive in 1st or 2nd gear, it hated 3rd and 4th. But it was noticeable in all the gears, so this is very unlikely for your vehicle. Still, it's a good thing to rule out. If you get your jack out, lift up one wheel at a time and see how easy it is to spin by hand, that will rule out that possibility.
The clunk and clicking from the rearend is obviously a problem, I would start looking into that next.
Keep us posted. Sorry I don't have any better theories at this time.
03-22-2010, 08:36 PM
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Gearing doesn't change the speedometer reading AT ALL, It changes the RPM's at that given speed. Tire size obviously does change speedo reading but not 10/12 miles per hour. Basicially ur transmission thinks ur going 76(which it is)and your truck is actually doing 55..... I think you have a serious issue with ur 4/5 gearset in the tranny, like big time problem, and if your rear-end is clunking it's about to break the ring and or pinion soon. Sorry dude, probly not what ya wanted 2 hear...........
But tire size CAN change the speedo accuracy by 10 - 12 miles per hour at highway speed. Easily!
And gearing, as in differential gearing, WILL change speedo *accuracy*.
True, the transmission, speedo cable and the speedometer don't know how fast the truck is actually going. All that is constant.
True, the purpose for installing proper gearing is so that your motor's RPM is not too low or too high.
My truck for example: (yes mine is 4x2 instead of 4x4. The only difference is that mine had smaller stock tires than a 4x4, so larger tires make a larger difference. Still this holds true to some degree regardless of stock tire size.)
Stock tire size: something like 195/75/R14 Stock gearing: 3.58:1
New tire size: 30" All Terrains
55 miles per hour on the speedometer = 68.2 MPH actual truck speed (13 MPH difference. This has been confirmed many different ways. And, the faster you go, the larger the difference is between speedo and actual.)
If differential is replaced with 4.56:1 gearing, the driveshaft is spinning an extra .98 times for every 1 revolution of the drive wheel. The driveshaft is now rotating faster than before at the same vehicle speed.
Therefore, the speedometer is once again accurate, because even though the driveshaft is spinning faster than stock at any given speed, the larger tires are compensating for the difference. Hopefully, this particular combination would return the speedometer's accuracy, AND allow overdrive to be used again without going 90 MPH!
Tire size AND differential gearing WILL change the speedometer reading.
Sorry Dan, for getting off topic. I honestly don't know what to recommend for your problem. I think that if you had a problem inside your transmission, you would hear it in a lot of grinding/crunching/bad types of noises, mainly in the problem gears.
Unless you have a toolbox; a spare tire or something else sliding around going clunk around corners, you may very well have a problem with your differential.
Please post a reply as soon as you can and let us know if you have ruled anything out, or found anything.
I'm wishing you nothing but the best! Good luck!
03-22-2010, 08:55 PM
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Well, unfortunately for Dan, I will agree that he likely has some problems with the transmission and/or differential. That part sucks.
But tire size CAN change the speedo accuracy by 10 - 12 miles per hour at highway speed. Easily!
And gearing, as in differential gearing, WILL change speedo *accuracy*.
True, the transmission, speedo cable and the speedometer don't know how fast the truck is actually going. All that is constant.
True, the purpose for installing proper gearing is so that your motor's RPM is not too low or too high.
My truck for example: (yes mine is 4x2 instead of 4x4. The only difference is that mine had smaller stock tires than a 4x4, so larger tires make a larger difference. Still this holds true to some degree regardless of stock tire size.)
Stock tire size: something like 195/75/R14 Stock gearing: 3.58:1
New tire size: 30" All Terrains
55 miles per hour on the speedometer = 68.2 miles per hour actual truck speed (13 MPH difference. This has been confirmed many different ways. And, the faster you go, the larger the difference is between speedo and actual.)
If differential is replaced with 4.56:1 gearing, the driveshaft is spinning an extra .98 times for every 1 revolution of the drive wheel. The driveshaft is now rotating faster than before at the same vehicle speed.
Therefore, the speedometer is once again accurate, because even though the driveshaft is spinning faster than stock at any given speed, the larger tires are compensating for the difference. Hopefully, this particular combination would return the speedometer's accuracy, AND allow overdrive to be used again without going 90 MPH!
Tire size AND differential gearing WILL change the speedometer reading.
Sorry Dan, for getting off topic. I honestly don't know what to recommend for your problem. I think that if you had a problem inside your transmission, you would hear it in a lot of grinding/crunching/bad types of noises, mainly in the problem gears.
Unless you have a toolbox; a spare tire or something else sliding around going clunk around corners, you may very well have a problem with your differential.
Please post a reply as soon as you can and let us know if you have ruled anything out, or found anything.
I'm wishing you nothing but the best! Good luck!
But tire size CAN change the speedo accuracy by 10 - 12 miles per hour at highway speed. Easily!
And gearing, as in differential gearing, WILL change speedo *accuracy*.
True, the transmission, speedo cable and the speedometer don't know how fast the truck is actually going. All that is constant.
True, the purpose for installing proper gearing is so that your motor's RPM is not too low or too high.
My truck for example: (yes mine is 4x2 instead of 4x4. The only difference is that mine had smaller stock tires than a 4x4, so larger tires make a larger difference. Still this holds true to some degree regardless of stock tire size.)
Stock tire size: something like 195/75/R14 Stock gearing: 3.58:1
New tire size: 30" All Terrains
55 miles per hour on the speedometer = 68.2 miles per hour actual truck speed (13 MPH difference. This has been confirmed many different ways. And, the faster you go, the larger the difference is between speedo and actual.)
If differential is replaced with 4.56:1 gearing, the driveshaft is spinning an extra .98 times for every 1 revolution of the drive wheel. The driveshaft is now rotating faster than before at the same vehicle speed.
Therefore, the speedometer is once again accurate, because even though the driveshaft is spinning faster than stock at any given speed, the larger tires are compensating for the difference. Hopefully, this particular combination would return the speedometer's accuracy, AND allow overdrive to be used again without going 90 MPH!
Tire size AND differential gearing WILL change the speedometer reading.
Sorry Dan, for getting off topic. I honestly don't know what to recommend for your problem. I think that if you had a problem inside your transmission, you would hear it in a lot of grinding/crunching/bad types of noises, mainly in the problem gears.
Unless you have a toolbox; a spare tire or something else sliding around going clunk around corners, you may very well have a problem with your differential.
Please post a reply as soon as you can and let us know if you have ruled anything out, or found anything.
I'm wishing you nothing but the best! Good luck!
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03-23-2010, 06:02 AM
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I would check your timing. Factory is 10, but if you bump it up to 13 or 15 you can get some extra power out of it. This wont help your gearing but might explain the lack of power in the higher gears. Hows going up hills in the lower gears?
Last edited by rattlewagon; 03-23-2010 at 06:04 AM.
03-23-2010, 07:44 AM
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ok i'm going to mess with the timing later, but going up hills in low gears like 1 tru 3 is easy no problem at all its 4th and 5th that all most cant work even on flat ground. next thing i was thinking of trying was drop the rear drive shaft and lock the transfer case in 4h and see if it does better with just the front wheels pulling. or is that a bad idea?
03-23-2010, 08:17 AM
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ok i marked the tire with white out and marked the drive shaft the same way i have a 2 tire rotations to 10.5 drive shaft rotations what gear would that be?
03-23-2010, 08:35 AM
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Should be somewhere around a 5.25:1 ratio. Probably great if you do much rock crawling or trails. That would be too much for me with the amount of highway and on-road driving I do. For highway use, IMHO, 5.25:1 is too high for 31s or the 235s you have on now.
I'm interested to know: Besides the very low power in 4th and 5th gears, are those gears smooth? Any slipping or grinding? Or just low power?
Have you checked the gear oil in the diff? Probably not a drain on it, so it might be worth pulling the back cover off to inspect.
I still really want to know if you have checked compression to rule out any engine problems.
I'm interested to know: Besides the very low power in 4th and 5th gears, are those gears smooth? Any slipping or grinding? Or just low power?
Have you checked the gear oil in the diff? Probably not a drain on it, so it might be worth pulling the back cover off to inspect.
I still really want to know if you have checked compression to rule out any engine problems.
03-23-2010, 08:39 AM
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V6 = Chain driven case.... (speedo runs off the TC)
Check yer fluid and if possible, the chains condition...
IIRC, the chain constantly spins. And once you select 4WD, the planetaries engage and lock the front shaft in.
Check yer fluid and if possible, the chains condition...
IIRC, the chain constantly spins. And once you select 4WD, the planetaries engage and lock the front shaft in.
Last edited by tried4x2signN; 03-23-2010 at 08:42 AM.
03-23-2010, 09:00 AM
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yes sir it was about 5.25 to 1 and as for any problems with any of those gears none at all except the finger on 1st gear is ground so it pops out if you don't hold it in. and about a year ago i replaced all the fluid in the rearend and the tranny and transfer case. but my rear end is solid it unbolts from the front. question #2 what gears should i be running i pretty much just drive high ways i dont need the low gears that much. and i also adjusted my timing from 10deg tdc to about 17 or 18 deg tdc its allmost turned as far as it will go,
truck sounds alot better 4th gear has more power but 5th still sucks something awfull. thankyou and i will try a compression check here soon.
truck sounds alot better 4th gear has more power but 5th still sucks something awfull. thankyou and i will try a compression check here soon.
Last edited by Dan_P; 03-23-2010 at 09:02 AM.
03-23-2010, 09:05 AM
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o yeah and also question on the transfer case my shifter claims i have 3 gears 4L 2H 4H but i only have 2 it goes from 4H to 2H and then no where?
03-23-2010, 10:01 AM
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Your shifter has a J pattern, no?
And it's not 3 gears... All part time cases are two speed auxiliary transmissions.
4H is the same 1:1 2H is. 4L is low range... two speeds.
You should be:
Left and up, 2H.
Down, 4H. And the shifter will feel like it's in neutral. It will move left and right.
Right and up 1 click, Neutral (IF you have Neutral on your case some had them, some didnt)
Right and up up, 4L.
If you don't have that, either you've got a linkage off or poorly adjusted, or worse a problem with the planetary gear set in the TC...
PROVIDING you have 4WD AT ALL.
Why don't you do a test.
Engine off, TC in 4H and try and turn the shaft. Come back and tell me two things. 1: Do you have manual locking hubs, and 2: Did the shaft turn.
Below is providing you have manual locking hubs... Yet another reason to convert ADD over to hubs b/c you cannot properly troubleshoot the 4WD system w/o them.
And it's not 3 gears... All part time cases are two speed auxiliary transmissions.
4H is the same 1:1 2H is. 4L is low range... two speeds.
You should be:
Left and up, 2H.
Down, 4H. And the shifter will feel like it's in neutral. It will move left and right.
Right and up 1 click, Neutral (IF you have Neutral on your case some had them, some didnt)
Right and up up, 4L.
If you don't have that, either you've got a linkage off or poorly adjusted, or worse a problem with the planetary gear set in the TC...
PROVIDING you have 4WD AT ALL.
Why don't you do a test.
Engine off, TC in 4H and try and turn the shaft. Come back and tell me two things. 1: Do you have manual locking hubs, and 2: Did the shaft turn.
Below is providing you have manual locking hubs... Yet another reason to convert ADD over to hubs b/c you cannot properly troubleshoot the 4WD system w/o them.
To check a 4WD, the engine doesn't even need to be running...
1st: TC in H2, Hubs un locked. Get under the truck and manually turn the shaft. It should turn free.
1a: Now you can take turns locking one hub at a time. Free movement means no bind. And an open front diff. If it does not it could be b/c somethings broke or it has a locker or limited slip in it.
1b: Locking both hubs, the shaft should not turn at all. If it did, it'd pull the truck.
2nd: TC 4H and 4L. They serve the same purpose. They close the open loop and make the front shaft turn (hubs close the next one). Now get under the truck and try and turn the shaft. It should not... B/c the TC locked in gear.
Remember, it takes two things to get the front axle to pull. Hubs and a transfer case.
No switches or motors and all that other junk!
1st: TC in H2, Hubs un locked. Get under the truck and manually turn the shaft. It should turn free.
1a: Now you can take turns locking one hub at a time. Free movement means no bind. And an open front diff. If it does not it could be b/c somethings broke or it has a locker or limited slip in it.
1b: Locking both hubs, the shaft should not turn at all. If it did, it'd pull the truck.
2nd: TC 4H and 4L. They serve the same purpose. They close the open loop and make the front shaft turn (hubs close the next one). Now get under the truck and try and turn the shaft. It should not... B/c the TC locked in gear.
Remember, it takes two things to get the front axle to pull. Hubs and a transfer case.
No switches or motors and all that other junk!
Last edited by tried4x2signN; 03-23-2010 at 10:10 AM.
03-23-2010, 11:29 AM
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mine claims to have the 3 but will only shift in to two of them its not a J or L pattern ive tried many times, i have the ADD so no locking hubs. and yes i di have 4x4 about an hour ago i removed the rear drive shaft and drove it around town my odometer is still off by 10mph but it's easier to keep my rpms up and to drive.
03-23-2010, 12:17 PM
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Do you have an automatic transmission?
2H
I_ 4H
..I
...4L
2H
I_ 4H
..I
...4L
Last edited by tried4x2signN; 03-23-2010 at 12:20 PM.
03-23-2010, 12:56 PM
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no mine is a 5spd but i fixed the tc my truck has a 3" BL that was installed before i purchased the truck so after doing some reading i found that some people have to cut the body some so i cut a .25" of the body and now it goes left and up in to 4L Thankyou tried 4x2signN because i would have never figured it out if you hadnt got me looking.
03-23-2010, 01:34 PM
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you're welcome
Now lift the motor and tranny 3" with a budbuilt x member and Roger Brown motor mounts and you'll have ground clearance to the frame
I'm just ranting... do what you want.
Now lift the motor and tranny 3" with a budbuilt x member and Roger Brown motor mounts and you'll have ground clearance to the frameI'm just ranting... do what you want.
Last edited by tried4x2signN; 03-23-2010 at 10:32 PM.
