JC III

'87 4runner 22re auto trans is having an odd shifting issue. First, I can hear the snickers about it being an auto. When shifting manually, I really am very happy with the way it performs for a 23yr old 4banger with 150K on the clock. After a change of fluid and a new transmission filter, it really does shift smoothly, surprisingly so. But in auto (even though it's super smooth), it doesn't seem to want to stay in 2nd for long, imo. If you skinny pedal to the floor, it seems to shift at appropriate times, but otherwise when it does shift into 2nd, it only stays there for a bit before upshifting to 3rd, which comes in way low in the power band. Every once in a while, when we start it up, put it in drive, it seems to try and start out in quite possibly 3rd gear (maybe second but I don't think so). Turn it off, back on, works fine. Shifts fine manually. Also, every now and then, cruising speed @ 60 or so and squeeze the pedal to the floor and it won't downshift...hammer the pedal and sometimes it does...but this is also intermittent.

After some research here, it seems as if it may be the solenoid or TPS. From what I've described, your opinion on which it might be and why? And if a solenoid, which one? I really don't want to replace all of them considering they look like they are about $125ea. Or is it both solenoid and tps?

Thanks for your help.

thook

Here's the FSM sections on a/t's.....

http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...autotrans.html

Maybe this'll help. I don't know much about a/t's, so can't comment. Sorry.

JC III

Razed. I've tried some adjustments on the cable that goes to the transmission from the throttle and can't really tell too much difference. I will try doing some more drastic adjustments this weekend and see where that gets me. Any idea what direction on the cable produces what results? Tighter=?, looser=?

Also, on a test drive last night after drain and fill of rear diff, at one point it quick shifted through 2nd like it always does and then into third. My son dropped it into 2 manually and it stayed in 3. Not sure what that proves if anything.

Hoping someone has experience with this before I go swapping out parts.

JC III

Anyone else with auto trans knowledge?

thook

Seems as I recall Mt. Goat has some a/t knowledge. Hadn't seen him post in a while, but you might try sending him a PM. Couldn't hurt.

redhawk427

i had a similar problem with a '90 3.0 i used to have. it always seemed to happen when i was tryin to pass someone. id be in D, step on it, and it wouldnt shift down! well i dont remember what fixed it, but check your tps with a meter and also i remember finding a little bushing/spacer on the gas pedal inside. its where the cable hooks to the pedal. well it was split, causing a ton of slack in the line. i remember fixin it with tape and stupid stuff. also try tightening the cable that actually pulls the throttle(under the hood). dont adjust it, just get rid of slack. it seems like the solution to the problem was that the peddle would hit the ground, before opening the throttle all the way. there was simply too much slack in the cable

JC III

Razed, yes it works perfectly when switching manually, 2 pulls strong no slippage etc. It also works great when you wot from a stop, but really early at gentle cruising speeds quite often leaving me in 3 at well under 2K rpms...which is sluggish to say the least. The only way to get it to drop to 2 is wot and I mean absolute foot in the floor, but there seems to be a delay sometimes and by the time it shifts to 2 it's typically high enough into that 3 that it needs to upshift from 2 back to 3 a few brief moments later anyway. Now that you say it, the not downshifting into 2 from D manually may have been a speed issue...I know it always shifts up from L to 2, 2 to D without flaw manually. I'll check that his weekend and pay attention to speed when I do it.

If it were a problem with the mechanicals of the a/t, I would think I would get some kind of problem during manual upshift too?

Redhawk, I'm completely ignorant about the tps. What readings should I be getting on one that works correctly? I'll check for the bushing/spacer and throttle cable tension too but I'm pretty sure the tension is good.

Does anyone know what the cable opposite the throttle cable does (it goes to the transmission)? That one does have a good bit of slack.

Thanks again for all the help guys.

redhawk427

the one that goes to the tranny has to do with shifting. i cant remember the name of it but the farther the throttle is open, the harder the tranny has to slam into gear to avoid slipping. so that cable makes it shift harder, the harder your pressing the pedal. and about the tps, its been sooo long sense ive done it but if you touch the right pins (there may be only 2, i dont remember), and youturn the throttle up, it should give you a nice steady reading. its easier to use a multimeter that is analog. but you'll obviously wanna find out more about it lol

JC III

Now that sounds like a very logical explanation for the cable....because when I adjusted it, your description fits now with the result I experienced. Perfect sense. I'll search specifically for the specs on the tps and see if I can find anything. Thank you sir!

4runnerx3

My first question is what size tires do you have on it? Larger than stock throws the speed sensors off. Have you used the search? I've posted a lot of tranny stuff. The adjustment on the throttle cable is important, the tranny works on pressure, and the cable goes to the valve body in the tranny. Does it have the same symptoms in power mode?

4runnerx3

Speed sensor 1 in cluster, #2 on tranny.

JC III

x3, yes, I found that in the fsm and the cable is adjusted roughly to spec (measuring a millimeter on 23 year old rubber boot/cable combo is not an exact science). We just replaced the tires (from roughly 29.5" to 32") but it behaves the same with the 32's as the smaller tires...though I know those were not stock also. Is there a way to adjust the other speed sensors for the new tire size? I have a local spedo shop that I am going to have correct the speedo discrepancy, is that something they can do to? Yes, I have searched and that has what has lead me to the tps and/or solenoids. Much of what I have found does not deal specifically with my particular problem so there is a lot of extraneous to wade through, hence my specific post.

Interesting about the power mode: this weekend we got around to working on a few more small items and resolved the normal/power switch problem. It seems as if someone had spilled "an unknown substance that became very sticky" on the switch on the transmission tunnel. After dismantling and cleaning, the switch now toggles between normal and power perfectly (it never seemed to "click" into power before). During gentle driving, the power setting actually works quite well. It does hold the gear a bit longer in 1, definitely longer in 2, and a bit more in 3. Under normal acceleration, "power" seems to cure most of the 2nd gear maladies. Under very hard accel, I think it actually performs better in normal mode. Go figure. Does that further clarify or muddy the water?

Razed, it doesn't seem to stay in 1 longer than I would expect (what I would consider normal) but that may be a good explanation for why it uses 2 for so little time under normal accel. I hope it's not a blockage or mechanical...I'll go back to planning a manual swap out if that's the case.

I found a tps local for $55 so I'm going to swap that out first just to take one item out of the equation. Worst case, we'll just drive around in power mode for dd chores.

JC III

Alright, it's not the tps....but it did have it's own improvement. Swapped it out tonight after work and the old one was definitely shot. Very sluggish on returning to original position, the new one literally snaps back. Throttle response is dramatically improved.

Very minor transmission improvement but only because with the better throttle control it's easier to make it shift up/down through throttle input.

JC III

Update...through a series of multiple trial and error adjustments, long story short, adjusted the throttle cable to zero slack, readjusted the transmission/throttle cable to where cable stop is further (1-2mm) inside the rubber boot, added just a tiny bit of "preload" to the tps housing and VOILA! She lives! Each adjustment helped a bit more but the biggest difference was adjusting the trans/throttle cable further inside the boot. I was erring on the 0-1mm side as spec'd, seems counter intuitive to me but it is what it is.

Multiple test drives with all the drivers in the house and everyone has claimed it "fixed." We can definitely live with the way it shifts now. 2nd hangs in there like the rest of the gears, shifts up and down as it should, throttle input now gets a response from the trans, it's just all gravy now.

x3, still interested in your answers to the speed sensor questions if you have any further input.

I sure do appreciate all the advice and ideas! You guys are great.

jlshaff9

JCIII, I have an '87, 22r auto, and I swear I have the exact same problem. I've experimented with that tranny cable and nothing. I've just discovered this thread, and I'm going to copy your work first thing tomorrow. Can't wait to see the result

JC III

I'm not sure which of my attempts actually fixed it but I'm pretty sure it was cumulative in effect. Trans fluid and filter change, new TPS adjusted properly (see 4crawler's excellent writeup on proper adjustment his site), more slack in the trans/throttle body cable and less in the throttle cable all added up to better shifting. If I can ever find the solenoids cheap (which they aren't) I'm going to play with replacing those just to see if I can get further improvement but otherwise, I'm pretty happy with it now.

My son was experiencing some trouble with it starting out in 3rd after shifting into drive from reverse but we discovered it only happens if he pushes down the button on the top of the shifter when switching from reverse to drive. If you just pull it down into D without pushing he button, it locks solid into first every time. Something about the "soft" locking into D seems to confuse it. Not sure if that will help you any but something else we've discovered.

Good luck, I'd be interested in hearing your results.

jlshaff9

a "real" mechanic worked on this issue before me and replaced/adjusted my tps. I took off the intake hose to confirm that the valve is fully open when the skinny pedal is on the floor. after that i've adjusted the tran/throttle cable to both extremes and can't seem to find a location that makes this thing work right. this truck sure seems to hate 2nd gear. at this point i've pulled every last hair that i've got.
i'm recovering from shoulder surgery now and waiting on my 2nd arm to start working again before more experimenting. to summarize, i'm going crazy

jlshaff9

the result is that i end up driving it almost like a manual. put it in '2', leave it there until i need 3, at which point i bump it up into 'D', then push the button when i'm ready for OD.i sooo wish i had the time/skills/money to swap to manual tranny

JC III

My adjustments to the trans cable were difficult to determine which were beneficial until I was exactly at the right spot. For me, the only time it shifted properly was when the cable stop was 2-3mm inside the rubber boot at WOT. 0-1mm no good, 4+mm no good...but that one spot worked.

I don't know where to tell you to go from here, maybe some of these other guys who know a lot more than me (and that would be practically everyone) can help. If my other efforts had not fixed it, my next step would have been the shift solenoids. I'm not one to just start swapping out parts until it's fixed but what little I've learned from researching this problem pointed me in that direction next. After that I probably would have considered that there might be some blockage or improper flow in the valve body and planned a full tear-down.

I'd day stay with it until you find the resolution simply because now we are happy with the auto. We were inches away from just ripping it out and jumping into a manual before we fixed it. That would have been a lot of wasted effort and $$ in my opinion since we are happy with it now. It's not as "good" as a manual, but it's close enough for us.

jlshaff9

driving to/from work today, it really feels like the problem is only when going uphill. it seemed to downshift nicely when accelerating during "spirited" driving. I'm running out of hairs to pull out.
Also running out of interest to work on it b/c i wanna sell it. I love the thing, but don't need two 1 gen 4runners.