Found and printed out the AC VSV testing page in the FSM, adding that to the list of things to check.....

AC-47 is the page, and actual page in total is 1357 of the FSM.

BTW; (this is an 88FSM, as I don't have an 87 one, I have to skip lots of things like pair system and other sensors... But the AC VSV should be the same... I'll check the haynes too... It did have that in there, IIRC. )

 

I'll post a pic of the one I'm talking about, just to avoid confusion(NOT confusion YOU are causing, lol.... It's just that I've heard the one 'I'M' speaking of referred to as 3 different things. It's a single wire unit that's plug faces vertically. They're often corroded or compromised in the wire, and I actually did have to repair the pin/resolder a new splice in there and properly install it back in the connector. The dealer called it the Thermostatic Temperature Time Switch... Which is NOT the same as the CTS(aka Coolant Temp Sensor, aka the Water Temp Sensor), etc.

I'm sure we're talking about the same thing.. I'll post pics

 

Great, ...well, once again, PHOTOBUCKET is down/having huge login issues. (found a tiny post of "OOPS", from the staff... hahaa)

 

PBucket's back up.........

This is the Thermo Temp Time Switch, MYYOTA....



I believe I DID replace the CTS with OEM part....

The Coolant Temp Sensor is reading at "1.4K Ohm" at 80*F or so... right on the money. Haven't tested it hot yet, but I will asap.

 

MMM I think on the 88 that switch is under and next to the CTS

 

Chef, that is the thermal switch for the a/c. The thermal switch for the engine is below the thermostat housing next to the thermal time switch for the cold start injector.

 

Hey Larry, Teuf.... Sup?

Yeah, guys, this is a 2 year doozy! I KNOW that something has lingered from even before the first rebuild that that machinist fubared everything on? through my full re-rebuild with new short block, etc.,..... to NOW! lol.

I wanna be clear on a couple things, first.

1. I had NO idea that sensor on top of the thermostat was in any way related to AC... I was told it was far more EFI related, not HUGELY important, and yet, DID sense Coolant Temp BEFORE the Thermostat, for other reasons(I believe 4crawler told me that, but ended up ALSO saying, ..."not sure what the hell it does... I don't think it's SUPER important"... MIGHT NOT have been Roger, so I state that as a disclaimer, RIGHT NOW! haha... Just seem to remember discussing that thing with him, since NO ONE could tell me EXACTLY what it does!)

2. Every book and even, for the most part, the FSM and Haynes and Dealer book, calls the 2 Sensors on the Intake manifold, facing the fan, "Cold Start Injector Time Switch"(the left of the two) and "Coolant Temperature Sensor" or "Water Thermo Sensor"(the right of the two). Both are right below my BVSV for the EGR. Below the Throttle Body, etc., etc. I've tested both around .... Oh Lord, TOO MUCH! hahaha... You know what I mean.. "testing it again.... Wait, WHY AM I TESTING IT AGAIN?" lol... Just hate chasing my tail... So go through the usual suspects... But ohhhhhh..... boyyyyyyy! lol.

3. The thing on top of my Thermostat housing? Every time I called Toyota or asked on here was told it is the "Thermo Temp Time Switch", which does NOT effect things the same way as the Coolant Temp Sensor/Coolant Thermo Sensor does... I have VSV for the AC, obviously, lol... RPM Control Unit thingymadoer in the dash behind the glove for the Cycle Time of the AC...... What does that thing do? Does it shut off the AC if it senses it's going to overheat? THAT WOULD TOTALLY make sense! ..... I've just never verified it! hahahaha.

Could you tell me where you saw what it controls? I can't seem to find it even in the 88 FSM I have... and it's NOT in the Haynes from what I can see... Not in the AC section, (which is also heating and cooling in the Haynes) and neither in the Fuel Section.... Ahhh... OH THE HUMANITY! hahaha. I TOTALLY believe you, Larry... I just need to see it or have it explained as to how you know.... MOSTLY SO I CAN KNOW! hahaha... AND ALSO, of course , so I'm properly educating someone when they ask.

Anyhow... I don't think either are the culprit..... Coolant temp Sensor on front of intake facing the radiator is testing out to spec....and I'm fairly certain I found the receipt for it that it's new as of June 2010 or so.

Tested the AC VSV today and believe it's probably bad.....(which is why I have no idle up when the AC cycles on)... 88 and up models, that VSV I believe(not sure) also controls idle up for Steering pump load... But on my 87, as I'm sure with your 86... The Steering pump idle up is mechanical/vacuum actuated by sensing of pressure.

Also tested the Charcoal CAN... seems to pass the tests... and I loaded it with 43PSI as instructed, ....... flushing it out if needed... NOTHING like a bunch of carbon, like the FSM Warned, nor failure to flow air through the other two ports, occured.. So I think it's fine, unless it's got a leak that I can't see. I tested it in the vehicle... I'll remove it to make sure it's not got any leaks(Plug all the ports but the large one on top and mighty vac pump it up to see if it's holding/Maybe supply air too with a lil soapy water mixture to see if I have a compromise?)

Haven't tested the CSI time switch in a while... Will do it for the heck of it.... Unless it's running on and on/dead, I doubt that's my hot soak type problem. But it does say to check it in the FSM for odd chunky idle/wanting to stall, etc.... So I will, Why not? lol.

Thanks again, guys... VERY grateful for at least trying to throw in some ideas

 

PS> Not happy that my AC VSV probably needs to be replaced.. Money I didn't plan on spending... But hey, IT BEATS A 400$ A MONTH CAR PAYMENT WITH FULL COVERAGE, RIGHT? ... JK, nothing wrong with a new vehicle... Just haven't been able to EVER walk in and sign those papers. These old Gussy's have never left me TOO badly stranded yet! ahaha... And AAA would bring me a rental anyway on the road if I blew the motor or something extensive

 

Can anyone, please, please tell me the part Number for the DARNED; AC-VSV???

I can't say for sure that i've gotten it right from what I read on top of the one I have on there(that seems broken).... But I SWEAR it says 0845007470.... And NOTHING comes up at www.toyotapartszone.com or otherwise...And i've looked through their catalog of parts by electrical, emissions, fuel, EVERYTHING I COULD FIND, .... seems like even when I typed in "Air Conditioning" nothing came up! hahaha. Let alone "VSV" or "AC-VSV" or "A/C-VSV".... I pretty much have to give up before I have a cranial aneurism .............again! hahaha.

Thanks, either way, guys.... I just need a part number... I'll call my buddy at the dealer, maybe he can find the number. But WOW, it's looking like just this last year and a half they've discontinued around 100 Parts that were available up to 2010..... I'm reading TONS of "NOT AVAILABLE" on TPZone and other sites, guys... SCARY!

 

OK< ... I hate when this happens! HAHA...

On Ebay there is ONE that says "for 87-90 VSV" and it looked similar til I zoomed in.......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1987-1990-To...sories&vxp=mtr

It could VERY WELL be on SOME models(but NOT MINE! lol.. TOTALLY different connector)..... And he lists the part numbers he has on them, correctly..... And www.toyotapartszone.com ? here's what they came up with with the part numbers he listed..........

http://www.toyotapartszone.com/oem/t...910-12035.html

SOOOOOOO, ..........WHAT IS THIS SENSOR THEY'RE SELLING FOR 80$ FOR?????? lol.... How do I see the parts schematic/layout from there... i've seen guys print em out from that site.... I can't seem to figure it out! lol.

BTW.......... 80$???????? ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh............. LONGGGGGG SIGH of disgust!

Anyone have one they know works I can borrow to be sure that's my problem?

Anyone have any idea what these guys are talking about "I got it for 18$ at TPZone!!!"... I must be missing what part they were talking about... The "Magnet"???? >> By itself?

 

Why not add one more hypothetical here..........

I just remembered, the other day... then forgot... then just now remembered again., ... wait, ...... NOPE, I got it, hahahaha... Ok, so, ...............

ONE thing I did NOT replace, among quite a few, over all this time? COIL....

I remembered, as I was saying, that I had this VERY odd problem with my tercel. (Was a 4WD Wagon, SAME FREAKIN YEAR, hahaha).... Anyway, the coil went bad and it took a mechanic at the time to figure it out... But it was sputtering at times, idling chunky/bouncing around on RPM just a tiny bit(which mine always does) and had the same lil chunky miss. He popped in a spare coil he had and VOILA!

NOT EVEN saying this is likely to be the coil... Just curious. I know Ignitors and even coils don't tend to 'slowly go bad'... But with ME? YOU KIDDING? hhahaha. I'll throw that in the 'testing' stuff's list for the heck of it. I can't really see that causing my mileage to so often suck in town..... Nor many other things. But hey, wth, right?

PS> Reminding myself; Find that spare Gas cap I have and give it a try to at LEAST rule it out?'

 

The A/C VSV part # you are looking for is #88690-22470.

 

THANK YOU, MACO!!!!!!!!

I know this is just too much read through, with the very limited spare time we all have... I get it, I'm right there! lol.... So I REALLY appreciate that you took that time to shoot me your VSV #!

did you get it off the VSV itself? Or did you have to order one yourself, man?

 

Hey Maco,

I'm curious.... Is that the VACUUM SWITCHING VALVE with 2 ports and a basket on the end of it, 1 electrical connector, BLACK COLOR? On top of the valve cover, near the oil cap....

Cuz everytime I get to 'retail or wholesale', the cheapest I see that valve even from Toyota parts Zone , etc., is 79$..... When I look up the part number you jotted down here... it says, 22$ wholesale.

Just wanna be sure..... is that a lil magnet kit or something that you can FIX that VSV with?

 

Hey Guys, ............ trying to sum things up short as possible regarding, "THE MOST RECENT MEMBER TO THE GREMLIN FAMILY"...MR. INTERMITTENT SPUTTER AT WARM STARTS...

PROBLEM;

* When starting in the AM, idles up, warms up and idles down as it should... Holds at 750rpm for an hour if I want without any trouble. BUT...when I run around town, park and go in stores, then come out TO RESTART WHEN FULLY WARMED UP... it bogs down to 500rpm after a couple seconds and then with a lil feathering of the pedal... it comes back up and smooths out as if it never happened.

THINGS I'VE CHECKED;

1. Bypassed the Fuel Pressure Regulator-VSV (NO CHANGE)

2. Ran FSM Testing on the Charcoal Canister ( NOTHING obviously bad found/Gonna check for leaks in the body*****)

3. Ran FSM testing on the NEWER-OEM-Coolant Temp/Thermo Sensor ( Passed tests)

PARTS THAT ARE NEW:

* TPS, COOLANT TEMP SENSOR, 02, ALL VACUUM LINES, BOSCH FUEL PUMP, O'REILLY'S-C.O.R. , ALL 5 INJECTORS DONE BY RC INJECTORS/PASSED WITH FLYING COLORS, THERMO TEMP SWITCH ON TOP OF THERMOSTAT HOUSING, PLUGS, WIRES, ROTOR, CAP.....>>> (probably not related but nonetheless new; STARTER, THERMOSTAT, RADIATOR, WATER PUMP, OIL PUMP, TIMING KIT, ALL HEAD PARTS, ALL BOTTOM END PARTS)

PARTS THAT ARE ORIGINAL OR OLD SWAPPED IN:

* DISTRIBUTOR, COIL AND IGNITOR, FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR/AND IT'S VSV, FUEL DAMPER, AFM, CHARCOAL CANISTER, INJECTOR RESISTOR, FUEL CUT RPM SYSTEM(not sure what all parts are involved other than the ECU), ECU, COLD START INJECTOR TIME SWITCH........(I'll add more as I go or as you remind me, therein)

************************************************** ****************

I'm sorry for seeming to get stuck so often on this... And it's been a curse in my build from the beginning.. All the more reason I'm at my whits end on this, guys. I'm ready to take it in to Japanese Auto Center Guru, Tom, and leave it with him for HOWEVER long.... but I'd like to give it all that I got before I do.(Not to mention that I CAN'T REALLY AFFORD to hand him 300$ or whateverrrr to figure it out, if I can help it, ya know? )

My main concern is that this gremlin is a precursor to something that is about to fail/could leave me stranded... And seeing as I've looked so deeply into this gremlin and the original one, "IDLES WITH A LIL HICCUP, THROUGH BOTH BUILDS, INCLUDING A LIL RPM JUMP THEREIN".... Where I've tested every factor of this truck but the fuel pressure(ECU testing in both ways, all Sensors, Spark output, all meters, etc., etc.).... after all this searching, I'm REALLY tired of this.

PLEASE, if you have ANYTHING that pops to mind, ... lemme know, I'll jot it down and test it, as I have everything else.

Thanks,

Mark

 

So, you may be interested to know that every 87 22re does what you are describing, including mine. When you come out for a hot start, it runs at about 300rpm for a second, then the computer slowly increases rpm to 900 like its supposed to be.

I found that in the 87 22re factory manual, the idle should not be 750, it should be 900. When I changed my idle to 900 the truck runs fine now.

Also-- probably not mentioned, but the idle screw can loosen and allow air around it (not to mention changing the idle speed) I set mine for the correct idle speed about 20 times, only to find that it moved after I drove for a while. Solved that one by spraypainting the thing in place and letting the paint drip around it and dry in place to keep it there.

I suppose that if you really wanted to get into it, you could try a new fuel pump as well.

 

Hey duff, ....... thanks for the input, sir.

Honestly? I have never heard that(that 'It's normal', not once). I've played with my timing, depending on lash(according whichever cam in certain motors, etc.)... I've kept the idle at around 800rpm most often, and yet, NEVER ONCE, until last year or so, after 24 years of troublefree/nearly 300,000 miles of rolling(i've owned it for 170K and 10 years), ....'never' have had it idle down upon hot soak... And I drive through the High Sierras in Summer/Sequoias as well, where it nears 130*F in spots and in high altitude as well...Through Death Valley many times, AZ desert wheeling, Needles, CA Colorado River camping/fishing/jetski trips... NOT ONCE has it done what I've been experiencing. SIMILAR THINGS? Sure, .... it would start bogging out RIGHT AT ENTERING closed loop... (98*F or so coolant temp?).... And it would stay that way... Which ended up being my CAM lobes were toast. I also had a Coolant Temp Sensor issue once. Couple wonky TPS'...... But never anything related to possible vapor lock or hot soak grelmins.

Far as the Idle/Air adjustment screw.... I've mentioned that I dumped around 5 seconds straight of 70% Ether starting fluid around that, TBody, Intake, Plenum, etc., etc., ..... not a PEEP! lol. HOT/COLD, didn't matter... Nonetheless, I've been trying to remember to get out there and fish through the big o-ring set I have and find a good candidate. Yep, they can WANDER OFF, that's for sure! hahaha... mine hasn't on this one(of 6 22RE rig's I've had)... But another one it wandered right out of the throttle body! lol

Fuel pump is nearly new(posted that a lil bit back.... hidden in a BIBLICAL PROPORTION WRITING!) It's a Bosch as I had to replace it in a hurry and my dealer didn't have one on hand. I've since got VERY low miles OEM one I can swap in if it comes to that... but first I'd have to verify that I'm having a fuel pressure/pump action problem to begin with, ya know? "If it's workin... why swap it?" kinda thing.

Oddly, Duff.... I've had this freaky, weird 'pup-pup-pup-pupup-pup-pup-pupupup' idle for a couple years now! (Actually,.... it's been before even the first of 2 rebuilds on this rig in the last 2 years.. I know, bad machinist, ...it's a long story, lol)... I'm not sure if they're related, the lil 'chunky' nature at idle/and the strange idle down syndrome lately.... (as I said, strange to me, Duff, as it's never happened in over 170K miles since I've owned this rig/3 motors, multiple sensors/apparatus replaced, etc., etc...ya know?). To be honest, I've never heard anyone describe this as 'the norm'. NOT EVEN trying to be insulting, man.. Just my experience.

PS> I doubt it would have as good of pick up and go as it does/nor drive 90+MPH was a fuel pump giving me problems... But SOMETHING at idle is unhappy, that's for sure, especially, lately, at warmed up restarts.

 

HEY everyone, ...hope you're all doing alright

OKKKKK, fhewwwwwww, after a long hot one, finally got time to get to my rig and take pics of the AC VSV and FPR VSV(extra one) that I have.......

AC-VSV.........



This LOOKS like my FPR-VSV... I'm not sure where I got this, but it's probably an extra I grabbed off one of many of the 1st Gens at the pick-your-part THEY USED to have on occasions..........



***********************************
I think most of the guys saying, "MY VSV was 18$ at TPZone.com", etc., .... actually meant the 'Actuator'.... the one with the white screw on it.... I'm pretty sure that thing is FAR less than the Actual A/C-Vacuum Switching/Solenoid Valve, which Toyotapartszone, from what I can see, wants 79$ for?(that's w/out shipping). Dealer walk in with my 20% would be around 110$ ...... UHG! Not gonna likely EVER do that if I can find another VSV that will work and switch on Vacuum when my A/C is switched on, ya know? Maybe it can be repaired with a 'magnet kit'? Not sure I'm reading some input properly.. Waiting on my build thread for that answer......

I SWEAR I read Roger(4Crawler) saying that the latter picture, the blue one for the FPR-VSV, can be used in the A/C-VSV's place. Something about switching the wires over, or something... Again, I'll find it.
************************************************** *************

This is my last post on my build thread;

Ok, ...............

1. I pulled the connector and found that the top post(closest to the CLIP that secures the connector into the VSV) is the HOT..... I'm guessing the bottom one is the 'SWITCHED' one or maybe even ground?

2. I took a couple of alligator clip wires and tested the "Spare FPR-vsv" and it actuated, no problem, every time I hit the contacts with 'POSITIVE' & 'NEGATIVE' from the battery.

3. I then took the FPR-vsv and hooked it up to the connector from my harness meant for the A/C-vsv and hooked the vacuum hoses from the actuator(with the spring and white screw for adjusting idle up) to the FPR-vsv I have lying around........... HERE'S WHERE IT GET'S CONFUSING/INTERESTING, HAHAHA........

WITH THE TRUCK RUNNING AND AC/ON;

..... A. With both vacuum hoses hooked to the FPR-vsv and both A/C harness connector pins connected to it(I ran some male and female spades), it would not idle up....... The SECOND I PULLED EITHER wires from the Harness connector off of either post on the FPR-vsv, ..... it idled up to 1500 and climbing! HAHAHA.

......B. As I hooked the "Constant Hot" post to the FPR VSV and left the other unplugged, it stayed idling up.... Then connected the bottom post from the Harness Connector to the FPR-vsv connector that was free.... Idled back down again.

......C. I switched the Vacuum hoses, switched the wires, got it to HISSSSSS through the basket.... Nothing I did could make it work to 'IDLE UP UPON ACTUATION OF THE HARNESS VOLTAGE'>......... It basically, I'm pretty sure, was only acting as a 'BYPASS OF THE IDLE UP ACTUATOR VALVE ON THE PLENUM'(The White Screw and Spring Vacuum port for the Steering and A/C).

......D. I checked the FPR-vsv again with 12V, to be sure I'd not blown it.... It actuated fine as I'd touch it.

************************************************** ***

I can only guess, because I'm not an Actuator and VSV Engineer! lol.... But my guess is that, simply, "they work differently" and possibly have different resistance?

If anyone knows HOW I can make my spare, most likely working well FPR-vsv work as a replacement for my A/C-vsv......, please, chime in, I'll HUMBLY take a "Hey, dummy..... ya should've done THIS........." ... in order to get it working! hahaha...

 

Hey guys , .... hope ya'all are staying cool as possible! Eeek! haha...

Anyway, did a video of what it's doing when it 'IDLES DOWN ON WARM RESTART'.... I did it after running groceries in, so it didn't do it as bad as it usually does... but nonetheless was still doing it's THANG! .........

 

Hey Chef.

I don`t know if this would help or not, just throwing out ideas, but have you tried doing the big three mod were you up grade the ground wires from the battery to the frame and to the engine ?. Also replace the wire from the fuse box to the battery with one thats two or three times heavier, the stock wire is not heavy enough to handle much of a load. Ive done this on my 4Runner and the lights no longer dim when I put up the back window, and I have a steady idle when warm or cold. From reading what you have done and everything you have checked, it seems more like an electrical to me than anything else.

Larry.