ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Cougar,

Thanks. With this new TPS it isn't doing the 'bat out of hell' thing so much, but there is a lil hesitation. I'm going to try the EGR thing and check my timing,....adjust the idle, ....but wondering, could the idle be back up higher now because of the new TPS, in relation to whatever is wrong? I mean, I did the 4Crawler adjustment to specs(yes, I got a resistor and checked my Multi-Meter, it's right on the dot).

Just wondering whatcha guys might think on that one. Remember, my idle screw is out further cuz it seems to run like crap with it more in like normal. Could still have some timing issues, but I'ma try to go though it all one by one and as related to each other. OH YEAH,....and it's still idling down like before, except now that it's 'higher', it's not running so rough when it's idled down. When it idles down it's actually going right to 750, usually, but sometimes 600 and holding. Crazy idle! lol.

Thanks alot, Cougar, ...Guys, ...

Mark

thook

What you need to do.......what I'd do anyway.....since the TPS is now in, check it at the ECU connector.

Where the throttle stop screw sitting, btw? Remember, also, that your curb (or base, as some are calling it) idle adjustments at the TB aren't going to be the cause of hesitation and/or whatever else is happening at acceleration. It will only affect idle.

Anyway, what I'd do it set the TB adjustments where they should be, check the timing, and then continue to troubleshoot the real problem. If the TPS checks good at the connector, I'd then check the coolant temp sensor at the connector. Check it cold and hot.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Ok, Thook, that seems logical to me(checking TPS at the ECU to be sure it's getting the right stuff). I didn't mess with the Throttle Body Stop Screw because it always idled, even before the build, at 750 on the dot, smooth as silk. What I wanted to clear up, however, is ...I don't remember it ever really idling up when cold. It just always ran at 750. Is that normal or not? Just can't seem to find that in my 87 book.

Also, what I mean by Idling higher is kind of specific in this way; When I start it cold, it idles around 750, with the new TPS. When it starts to hiccup(within a minute or so), if I take off, it will only hesitate, like in the video, for 1st gear, once, ...sometimes into second, then it's cleared up.(With the new TPS is barely hesitated at all, maybe to 1500rpm or so) But, when I come to a stop, now, after "driving it out of this hiccup", it idles at around 1000rpm, ...then within a minute or less(sometimes more, but rare), it will idle down again to about 750 or less(after it does this, it starts that hiccup, like it's either rich or lean---can't be sure cuz there's no smoke at all and yet at times it's a lil stinky, lol).

Gotcha on the checking the coolant temp sensor at the connector, too. Just got home from my daughters Graduation and Party, ....gonna start reading up.

Thanks alot,

Mark

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

TURN DOWN VOLUME before playing videos, ...sorry. WAY DOWN, lol.

Ok, just a couple videos from today, since I didn't really have time to get into checking anything much. It ran VERY CRAPPY, lol, and it was doing it(seemingly missing, whatever is causing it--fuel , etc., not sure, but will get to that asap).

Oh well, I HAVE A PLAN! lol....but figured, what the heck, eh? ......





It's like it's a completely different set of issues, now. But, if I go out there, tonight, just to start it up or whatever, it'll possibly run fine cold again, then crappy into the loop, then ok again warmed up pretty good, after driving it out of it, ...BUT IT WILL ALWAYS idle down eventually and start runnin jumpy, like a lil jumpin bean! lol. Sorry Thook, I didn't have time to check any stuff tonight, and I was out there anyhow...but I promise, I'm getting on that checklist tonight and then the 'to-do' stuff thereafter.

Kiroshu

Did you Un hook the """EGR"""" it really seems like its hanging open at idle and accel. Check so we can either solve and or further eliminate. Oh and the back door light will go out if you lock the tail gate

EGR
EGR

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Hey Kiroshu, what's up my friend?,.....

HAHAHA, lock it, CHECK! lol I'm not sure, though, about mine. ....it seems that in order to get my door open in the first place, when removing the top, I have to roll it all the way down, thus, making mine very difficult to lock.

Regarding the EGR, no, Kiroshu, I'm sorry man, I just really didn't have time today. I was outside, anyway, doing some stuff preparing for tomorrows grill-out for them....and I started it up just to see if it was doing anything different, or the same, and the camera was in my pocket from my daughters graduation...so I figured 'what the hay', lol.

Yeah, I'm planning on doing that, blocking it off(EGR, EGR! LOL), tomorrow, then the fuel pressure(friend should bring it by, tomorrow-....thanks, Jay!) for FPR and basic fuel pressure a-ok check, and then, on to a list I'm making, which will go something like

1. Double Check TPS Setting in relation to Stop Idle Screw
2. If 1 Checks out, Check TPS readings at ECU and connector
3. Double Check AFM and then ECU
4. Check VSV and Modulator and Throttle Body Vacuum
........and so on.

I'm also contemplating, if I run out of things that 'COULD' be wrong, having a smoke test done on the system to check for vacuum leaks. Stuff like that is just thinking ahead. For now, i'm going to check or recheck the things that could be causing this. Reading the FSM I'm surprised how many times the FPR is mentioned as to causing my symptoms, but I need to MAKE SURE if it's good or not with the test in the FSM, first.

The BVSV is the only one that I'm not able to find an answer to as far as "Should it hold vacuum in the gauge inserted into the top pipe when first, vacuum is pumped into the bottom one?" Anyone know? I can't seem to find that answer. It just says to test if vacuum pumped in to bottom goes into the gauge when warm, doesn't say if it should hold or not. It is mechanical, being a Bi-metallic valve, so there's no other way to check that that I know of. But it DOES work with the EGR, so I just wanna rule it out. Especially after all the trouble I had with it stripping a lil in there and such.

Still no liquid leaks whatsoever, so that's good, eh? hehehe.

PS> I was surprised to hear how much the FPR is, even with my Dealership Discount, ....thing doesn't seem that complicated, lol. VSV isn't cheap, either. Modulator isn't too bad, if that's needed, 65$ or so. EGR? FHEWWWW, lol. Trust me guys, I'm not just gonna head out and grab all this stuff, just to perform a P.O.E.! lol. I'm really enjoying learning how they work, etc. AMAZED, actually, how far I've come from brake jobs and such on these, lol. One thing, please, if anyone knows.....IF I find out my ECU is bad, .....how much is too much to pay for one? I've seen them for 100-120$ on Ebay, Warrantied, but I just thought I'd ask. No, I'm not buying one of those for the hell of it, either, hahaha. I would swap one out if I knew someone, ...but no such luck! grrr, lol. Sure hope it's not a wiring issue, but only one way to find out, eh?

Thanks guys,

Chef is gonna watch a movie, ...."Edge of Darkness" with Mel Gibson...LOOKS INSANE! lol.

Kiroshu

I've had alot of 22rs with bad or operating inproperly EGR and i just unplugged that vac line and walla. You could have smoke test done. Have you hooked vac gauge to manifold vac? If so how many inches was it? Good normal vac should be between about 15-21.

iamsuperbleeder

wth? why did everything get centered?

that makes that very hard to read, lol


or is my browser just acting stupid...

Kiroshu

Nah its centered for me too....

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Not sure what you mean by centered...? Text? I'm seeing everything as normal format....is something wrong?

Kiroshu, I posted a couple times how the EGR test went and unplugged the vacuum to it and NADDA, lol. No change, and I've been trying that when just going into that loopy-loop(about a minute) and when fully warmed up, so now that it's freaking out cold, too, I'll try that again at cold, just to see,...but seems unlikely. I've yet to have the free time today to block it off completely.

1. Vacuum Pressure is around 18" at the VSV line to the FPR.(HOWEVER: When testing, at times the gauge would drop to 15" and then back up to 18") VSV?
2. BVSV passed the main test that I found(Vacuum Pump to Btm hose, Gauge to upper>>it read vacuum in gauge when pumped.) Still no answer on if it should hold vac. in the gauge. ???
3. FPR passed the first test but I've not had time, nor the FP Test Kit to fully eliminate that.
4. Fuel Pump is BRAND NEW, and since, at times, it's running exactly like before.......yeah


I'm just hopping on the Laptop in the kitchen, but I'll have time after serving lunch to head out and walk through some stuff. Still waiting for that Fuel Pressure Test Kit.

Trying to relocate pages on how to check the items Thook mentioned at the ECU, etc. I'll find it, just have to get a few more minutes free here.

Thanks for your patience, guys. I'm doing my best, honest.

PS> The graduation was GREAT! I'm very proud of my BB!
[IMG][/IMG]
HAHAHA, SHE'S GOT 5" HEELS ON! Guess she wanted to be up there with all her Amazonian Gf's! lol. OH yeah, ....she has her Diploma and a Certif. from the Local Outreach I think it was....where she was part of serving the homeless for a while, hehe.( I do that, often)

Kiroshu

I bet the EGR valve is stuck open. Blocking it off will tell us for sure. Vacuum at 18" is good. You said it drops to 15"? When and how fast does it drop and return.

Great Job with Graduations!

This is one of the only reasons i'm "trolling" this post to help you because you have been a really good guy in trying to help your self as we help push you along the way. Of course you have done soo much yourself i'm very greatful someone is putting this much time and effort in to our Toyotas. Most people would have honestly gave up by now. Believe me i've been on this site and seen it too much. And this thread is super interesting cause we have not found the prob yet

flecker

It isn't the EGR... blocked it off and no change. I will wait for Chef to check in for what was diagnosed throughout the day. All I can say is it stumped me, and I'm no stranger to diagnosing and chasing down problems/ troubleshooting the 22RE's. Spent a looooooooong time there today testing and verifying MANY things.

He will have a complete list of what was done/ checked/ fixed when he chimes in.

DOES ANYONE IN SO. CAL have a spare or DONOR ECU that we can borrow to rule out the ECU????

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

UPDATE, PLEASE READ, LOL:

Flecker, I cannot say thank you, enough, for taking 8 HOURS of a free day to try and solve this FREAKIN MYSTERY! haha. Honest, you're a class A+++ GUY!

I have to say, guys, while I'm mildly comforted by the fact that ''I'M OFFICIALLY NOT CRAZY, NOR IGNORANT", when it comes to trying to chase down what this could be, ... it's not the consolation that FIGURING OUT OUT WILL BE, I'M SURE! lol. Flecker was working in the area, and he came over here at around 11am, ....left at 8PM, and after checking/verifying/adjusting the following list,...the problem was still there and as strong as ever!

LIST OF THINGS VERIFIED/CHECKED/ADJUSTED;

*************************************************

1.) Removed Throttle body;
......a. Made sure flap was closing and proper
......b. Inspected/double checked and re-adjusted BRAND NEW OEM-DEALER TPS
......c. Checked Dashpot setting(it's a lil sticky but doubtfully the issue)
2.) Adjusted Valves to specs on Hood Label, Warmed up(Thanks Fleck!Hope your hands are not toasted, )
3.) Checked and Adjusted Timing(It's Running smoother, retarded...Was running smoother advanced before we re-checked/adjusted TPS and Valve Lash)
4.) EGR Block off Test(No Change whatsoever)
5.) Vacuum measured ok at 18" and...(KIROSHU, it bounces to 15" & back to 18", quickly)
6.) Checked Electrical connections(Flecker inspected nearly ever one, including ground in ECU, Body and Intake(EFI) and ohmed out other Grounds, added Dial. Grease....We/I didn't check the TPS readings at the ECU)
7.) Found a huge Vacuum leak at the Brake Booster(It actually, FINALLY, perforated while Flecker was here, started idling up and down repetitiously,... blocked off and still didn't solve the issue I'm experiencing.(Add that repair to the list....Booster)
8.) Checked/Adjusted Plug Gap(Re-gaped to .45 just to check against lean misfire-No change)
9.) Double Checked Injectors during engine hiccuping(All firing like GANGBUSTA'S, consistently with no intermittent spasms)
10.) Swapped known-working AFM(thanks JBM715) which read same as Reman'd AFM I have on loan....*** It actually ran worse than with my Original AFM that had mildly goofy readings at the IDL-E2 Ambient Temp Related Check***. I'm not sure I want to re-install my Original AFM, because, then, I might not get it set JUST RIGHT when finally figuring out the problem. Besides, I think my Orig. AFM is only making it run smoother because of whatever Temperature it is outside....Because at times, intermittently, over the past few days; It ran just as hokey with the orig. AFM at different ambient Temps.(Haven't checked AFM connections at the ECU, either...Can one do so?)
11.) Checked Intake to Head mating for what Flecker thought might be a massive vacuum leak(still not sure it's not that, just not sure, period, lol...let alone where it might be), by pouring water all along the mating surface(including Throttle Body), and found NO bubbling or change in idle.
12.) Shots of TB Cleaner in 'P' Port(far left of 3) vacuum inlet on TB brought idle up and smoothed it out, momentarily, but I'm not sure what that might suggest. I'll let Flecker comment on that and any other thoughts he might have on the rest, thus far.

IMPORTANT NUGGETS TO ADD:

1.) Idle/Air adjustment screw needs to be out quite a bit in order to keep idle up to 750
2.) Timing, after all we checked/adjusted/etc., seems to smooth out 'issue' when retarded, dramatically
3.) Issue seemed worse with fairly perfect-reading AFM(2.24 Ohm at 72degrees) in comparison to my AFM that checked out ok, other than same Temp Related Check-Test( 1.98 Ohm at 72degrees)
4.) Idle seems to rise and smooth out MILDLY when removing and plugging vacuum to Fuel Pressure Regulator.
5.) Flecker is a VERY qualified guy, having trouble-shot DOZENS of 22re's, with highly respectable Electronics/Computer-Professional experience(I'll let him further explain his qualifications) who was stumped after 8 hours of trying everything we could think of in said time......FLECKER....I CAN'T SAY ENOUGH HOW GRATEFUL I AM FOR YOUR TIME!!! THANKS, AGAIN!
6.) Have not tried working IACV(flecker doubts that is the problem)
7.) Have not checked Fuel Pressure(buddy never came by with kit), but it seems to be a lil rich, stinking in out pipe a bit(NO SMOKE), SO I CAN NOT rule out the FPR, but the problem didn't seem to speak "FPR" to Flecker. However, as I think I said, it still runs a lil higher in idle, maybe a lil smoother, when FPR Vacuum line is removed and plugged, and does NOT drop back down in idle when keeping it plugged....Seems odd, considering FPR should make it smoother when PLUGGED, not unplugged, but wasn't able to check Fuel Pressure yesterday)

**********************************************

And that, my friends, is why I've been saying, "Honest, I've not, nor have I EVER given up for one second, nor am I throwing parts at it, and neither can I find a solution to what should be a common trouble shooting problem". I'M NOT giving up, ...but at this point, without simply changing out certain things, like the FPR, ECU with a known working on, etc., .... I'm not sure what else I can do on my own. I've learned a lot from NOTHING, but I'm not nearly as experienced as "Flecker" and, well, as I'm sure he'll repeat, .."he's stumped as well". If I think of anything else I've neglected to add, I will do so, later on, or Flecker might as well.

Thanks for all the help, guys..... looking forward to the YOTATECHIE who solves the problem....and trust me, I WILL BE SO happy if I can pin this down, ...but I will also HONOR MY PROMISE to provide the first person to guess this with the Cordon Bleu Cert. Shippable Pastry/Cookie/etc. of your choice! lol

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

I'll be waiting for input, guys....bbinafew to check. Thanks again, in advance! And thanks, so much, for the prop's and congratulations regarding my daughter, Kiroshu! Appreciate that....I'm proud of her.

mightymouse

iTrader: (6)

Take this with a grain of salt to say the least. If i was in your shoes and checked everything as thoroughly as you have the next bet for me would be the ECU. They can be found for your make and model on ebay for under 100.00. Expensive yes. worth it maybe. It's just my guess and a 100 dollar one at that. I wouldn't per say get an ebay unit but source one from a junkyard and swap it in. Like i said take it with a grain of salt but for me and my money i would get an ecu. Seems as though the engine's parts and sensors are sending the right message but the "brain" isn't reading it and sending the right messages back.

flecker

That was my next thought.... we exhausted many things and tested just about everything outside of it. Again- ANYBODY WITH A DONOR ECU JUST TO RULE IT OUT PLEASE????

ha ha. I will possibly give a call to a buddy of mine today over in Downey to see if he has an ECU sitting in his parts 87 runner that I can borrow or buy on the cheap.... I need some rear headrest for my runner so I have to goet over there eventually.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Thanks Flecker! .......thanks, as well, to anyone who can maybe help me find an ECU TEST MODEL, lol.

Ok, Flecker, following results;

1. Vacuum line from VSV to FPRegulator---Disconnected at VSV---Plugged VSV port---Connected FPR vacuum line to 3-way port on Upper intake.............No change.

This afternoon, obviously cold, I started it and it ran for nearly 2 minutes without leaving 750rpm......but was not really running "purrfect" like it should in the condition it's in, internally and with so many new or 'checked out' sensors and such.

I'm going to recheck the vacuum on that port(the one with the lil stopper that's a lil tattered?) and make sure it's "OK"(16-18"), but I doubt I'll have anything new to add on that variable.

My neighbor has a very good friend with a shop in Lomita, and he's quite the Guru with these motors, but not really been interested in throwing in much. I'm doubtful it's anything personal, lol, and I'm sure if I took it into his shop he might be able to 'figure out the mystery', but he's NOT CHEAP, lol. I believe he has a smoke machine for the vacuum test, etc.(he's pretty expert at A/C work, too, so I'll eventually have him properly hook up the A/C with the new Stuff--Air Box Mod, etc.---But not until I GET THIS LICKED, YA KNOW?LOL) It's just that, well, I'd like to eliminate EVERYTHING I possibly can, on my own, before taking it to him for diagnosis. But hey, at least it's an option that's there, should it come to that, right?

flecker

Hey man... I found a donor ECU for a 22re manual trans 1987 runner, if it works it's 50 bux. If not, I run it back over to my buddy.

Will let you know when I get it.

Gotta keep these old rigs on the road! Besides that I need mo' wheelin buddies out here in So. Cal.

Will give a hollar later today or in the AM, got a few other ideas too once I took a break from it.

THIS WILL BE FIXED- it's a mission now.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

............... I say to any gremlins attempting to sabotage our battle with this inanimate object! ....Hilarious and TRUE statement, above(the latter YOU made)...THIS WILL NOT BEAT ME, ....and it is way less likely to with Tech-Savy guys like yourself on my side! hahaha.

Yes, I've been wheeling all over Cali in 4 Different Toys now! .....I WOULD LOVE to have someone to have a bit safer trip, on a long road trip one of these times. My Toy-Wheeling Brother(kin by rig, not blood, hahaha) moved to Oregon, so I'M OUTTA PEOPLE TO 'ROAD DOG IT' WITH! lol.

Sweet deal, on the ECU, and who knows, it just might be the issue. I'm guessing, otherwise, something is shorted out somewhere, but I'm also guessing that's a bit more intensive to figure out, ...so hopefully IT IS THE PROBLEM, to be honest, lol.

Whatever's clever, Flecker, ....Like I said, "I'M AT YOUR MERCY" when it comes to "this is next", etc. Not that I'm Toy-illiterate, ....it's just that I've exhausted my Toy-Knowledge-Catalog at this point! haha.

Sounds GREAT, LET ME KNOW! -ON, INDEED!

yotarob2005

$50 sounds like a hell of a deal! Way to go Flecker! Glad that you are close enough to help Chef out. Thanks for helping out a fellow yotatecher!