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Hey everybody, I have an 89 pickup with a 3.0 in it. It has needed a motor for years.... (I messed up a rod bearing repair back in like 2005) It has been running fine but losing compression slowly. Anyway, I got myself a decent little motor out of a 95 4runner. Same 3.0 with 180,000 on it. Runs great but has a couple oil leaks as usual. I have it out of the 4Runner and plan to go through it, front and rear main seals, pan and valve cover gaskets. The Head gasket looks good. I Wanted to see what you guys think about other things I should do while it is out of the truck. Should I crack open the heads for any reason? I know the head gaskets are a common issue but these look good. I have also looked into headers. Are they worth the $600+ just for parts? Water pump? Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. I just want to know what you guys would do while it is out and easy to get to.
I am rebuilding the heads on my 91 truck with the 3vze in it, i bought some ebay headers for like $200 and they have the EGR hook ups as well.
i would advise changing the head gaskets since you already have it out of the truck, plus any thing that you can do maintenance wise, water pump, timing belt, tensioner, idler puller, any new gaskets and seals that you can while you have the motor out of the truck
will make it that much easier instead of getting the motor in the truck and a few miles down the road and having to replace them anyways. Just my thoughts.
maybe new plugs, wires etc. ... you get the idea... make things easier for yourself now and have the piece of mind when you get the engine back in the truck that its up to par and will run a whole lot better as well.
also may look into new motor mount bushings to have the engine sit in there nice and tight, maybe run some nice high mileage oil through it as well, ( I run Royal Purple HMX high mileage)
Thanks Dans, I am curious about the motor mount bushings. Are you referring to the mounts themselves or something i can put between them and the frame? I am pretty sure my mounts are solid steel.
and Shoes, I havent done my research into valves. They probably just open up the engine a bit? would I need to resurface the heads? Different exhaust? I have a 2"
yeah little tight for sure, i work alot but as soon as i get the other side done i will post pics for you and try to get the down pipe in there as well
yeah little tight for sure, i work alot but as soon as i get the other side done i will post pics for you and try to get the down pipe in there as well
I would love to see a separate thread about these headers. I have lots of questions and I'm sure would be interesting to everybody.
As far as the original poster's question goes, I am wondering about Head studs. It seems like that would be a good place to invest your money. You need to replace the head bolts anyway anytime take the heads off. So what are you going to do? Replace them with Chinese bolts of unknown quality? Or go the OEM route get a set of bolts from a Toyota dealer? Or go with quality head studs?
I just got a quote back from Olate Toyota, a Toyota dealer that does a lot of online business. With their discounts, the bolts run about $13.49 each, So with washers, it should be about $240 to get a complete set. Interestingly enough that's about how much L C Performance charges for a set of ARP studs. I think I know which route I would take if I was going to spend that kind of money.
Last edited by wrenchtech; 09-29-2017 at 10:15 AM.
I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to replace them. It probably wouldn't hurt to replace the valves, the valve guides, valve springs, cam caps, ... too. But you'd go broke long before you reached the end of a list like that.
If spending $240 on something Toyota says you don't need makes you feel better, go ahead. But for that kind of money, I wouldn't rely solely on the word of some shade-tree mechanic, or a guy who posted something on the internet. Even the guy posting this note.
My apology for repeating this information which is apparently wrong. I had been exposed to that correction before, yet forgot and repeated the same erroneous information. Thanks for the correction and the reference material.
Another factoid that I have come across is that the ultimate clamping force of the Toyota head bolts, with their torque to yield installation procedure, is pretty variable. Studs are said to provide much more consistent result Also, Toyota recommends a high level of finish on the mating surface of the cylinder head. I can’t remember the exact specification, they use a scale with its own nomenclature to describe it. I wouldn't be surprised if some local machine shops were unable to achieve it. Seems like an area where many things can go wrong. It might be good insurance to run studs anyway and not terribly expensive in the big picture. Certainly, a subject where more investigation is in order and it's every man for himself.
Last edited by wrenchtech; 09-29-2017 at 04:07 PM.
As part of their sales literature for the head studs, This is what LC engineering has to say about 3VZE Head bolts:
Cure that head gasket problem on your 3VZ once and for all! Our exclusive 3VZ head studs made by ARP are much better than using another set of stock head bolts that are the torque to yield type. Combine these studs with a set of MLS head gaskets and you won't have to worry about popping head gaskets ever again! The ARP Cylinder Head Studs are made from 8740 Chromoly Steel, these studs test out at over 190,000 psi Tensile Strength. If you're rebuilding your engine, LCE always recommends replacing the old stretched head bolts with new ones to ensure the correct head torque. The torque for the studs nut is 80 foot pounds.
Unfortunately, LCE is just wrong. You don't have torque-to-yield bolts.
But don't feel bad, it is a very common misconception. There's more misinformation on the web about TTY bolts than about whether the earth is Flat.
Head bolts have to be tightened correctly. If you over-tighten a crank-bolt, say, as long as it doesn't break right there it will be fine for another 100,000 miles. There is very little axial load on a crank-bolt. But head-bolts are under constant axial load each time the engine fires. If you over-tighten a head bolt, it could actually break, but possibly not for 100s of miles.
The problem is friction. 50-85% of the effort in your arm while tightening a head bolt is to overcome friction. That's a big range! So Toyota used the Torque-to-Angle procedure. First take up the slack (33 ft-lbs, a point where friction isn't such a big deal). Then tighten it exactly another 0.625mm (1/2 turn). The bolt is stretched like a spring, but not to the point where the metal yields.
In the late 90s, auto manufacturers came up with Torque-to-Yield head bolts. This article explains why: http://www.onallcylinders.com/2016/0...gle-fastening/ They are tightened as far as the elastic limit, and then a little bit farther. The bolt actually yields (a little) irreversibly. TTY bolts have advantages, but since they have already yielded they can't be re-used.
it's important to torque our ordinary head bolts correctly, and doubly so for the new-fangled TTY bolts. So manufacturers also recommended using the Torque-to-Angle procedure on Torque-to-Yield bolts. Unfortunately, a certain class of mechanics just didn't read the whole sentence. Working on the late 90s cars they were told to use the procedure on the new bolts, and the next thing you know, they think that when you use the Torque-to-Angle procedure, it HAS to be a Torque-to-Yield bolt. And therefore any bolt tightened "that way" can't be reused. But they are two entirely different concepts.
You don't have Torque-to-Yield bolts. You can, if you want, re-use head bolts. Or if it helps you sleep better, replace them. Your truck isn't getting any younger.
I'd pull the heads and send them to a machine shop to be planed and pressure checked. Also inspect the block deck where the water jacket is close to the #6 cylinder. They have a tendency to get eroded there and cause HG failures.
I would love to see a separate thread about these headers. I have lots of questions and I'm sure would be interesting to everybody.
As far as the original poster's question goes, I am wondering about Head studs. It seems like that would be a good place to invest your money. You need to replace the head bolts anyway anytime take the heads off. So what are you going to do? Replace them with Chinese bolts of unknown quality? Or go the OEM route get a set of bolts from a Toyota dealer? Or go with quality head studs?
I just got a quote back from Olate Toyota, a Toyota dealer that does a lot of online business. With their discounts, the bolts run about $13.49 each, So with washers, it should be about $240 to get a complete set. Interestingly enough that's about how much L C Performance charges for a set of ARP studs. I think I know which route I would take if I was going to spend that kind of money.
I will try to post something as soon as possible. i work a ton and would love to do a small write up on the headers as well for the viewers too.
As for the head bolt myth....
I personally feel and have always just replace the head bolts on any vehicle if i am looking to do a head gasket job. I was told by a close friend of mine whom I personally trust that you can never know re using old head bolts how much they have stretched or how much longer the threads will hold out and torque down to the right specifications. In my Opinion I personally would always look into getting good solid A.R.P. head stud bolts or studs which ever you prefer... and then you have the piece of mind that they are going to torque down properly and not cause you grief later on the road.
This also goes without saying using a quality set of Head gaskets as well... maybe even some copper coat for the head gaskets to help shed the heat and keep erosion and rust from seeping or causing leaks.
AGAIN THIS IS JUST MY OPINION not facts, so don't bust my b@**s if someone feels I am in the wrong for saying.
Last edited by Dans91_yota; 09-30-2017 at 06:48 PM.
Well guys, this is where I am now. I have a gasket set that includes everything I need for a head gasket replacement. So now my question is... Do my gaskets look bad from these photos of the side of the engine block? I assume there is no way to tell if a head gasket is bad from the outside but I realize the real work starts when I start taking heads off... Do I need to pull the cam shafts? I assume I need to get the heads surfaced. Do I have someone mess with the valves while they are at it?
Mcclaws, you will need to remove the heads to inspect your headgaskets to determine where the failure is.
Make sure you follow the FSM for the proper sequence in loosening the cam bolts and headbolts.
Yes you will have to remove the camshafts to get at the upper head bolts. Be careful with your Valve shims and lifter buckets as they can fall out and you do not want to get them mixed up. If you decide to do any valve work you will also need to reexamine your valve clearances which may require some new shims. Just shaving the heads will not affect any of the valve clearances. Depending on how many miles are on the engine a good general refresh of the heads might be a good idea as you will have them off anyhow.
Well, I sent the heads off to get resurfaced. I am hoping for under $200 on that. I looked a the valves and they look fine to me. One is a white color though and feels like some sort of rough buildup.
The gaskets didn't look bad either. A question though... What on Earth could make dents like this in one of my Pistons?
Also... I am thinking new fuel injectors might be a nice refresher. Any suggestions?
09-21-2017, 10:54 AM
