Why do some folks have an obsession with making these solid valvetrain engines silent??

It's not what they were made to be. It serves no useful purpose, and can damage engines that are run hard with diminished clearances.

When I hear that regular sewing machine-like clatter. I know my engine is happy.

 

ive been running 006 and 009 inch for years.. 1990 22re --never has the back side of my cam marked nor has it shown signs of being too tight.,, hot or cold make no diff that i can tell,,
nissan produced the same joke in the 80's all of their engines sounded terrible.

 

Why do some folks have an obsession with making these solid valvetrain engines loud?

It's not what they were made to be. It serves no useful purpose, and can damage engines that are run hard with excessive clearances.

When I hear that regular sewing machine-like clatter of metal slamming against metal as high speeds. I know my engine is sad.

 

There seems to be more new sassy people on the forum lately....... We should all just get along...

I personally would go by what Toyota specified because they are the ones who DESIGNED the 22R. I am pretty sure the Toyota engineers didn't just spend a ton of time engineering how the engine is going to perform and then just to throw random valve clearance specifications into the manual.

I would think Toyota would have posted a TSB if they specified the wrong valve clearance...

 

[QUOTE=shudak;52363319]Why do some folks have an obsession with making these solid valvetrain engines loud?

It's not what they were made to be. It serves no useful purpose, and can damage engines that are run hard with excessive clearances.

When I hear that regular sewing machine-like clatter of metal slamming against metal as high speeds. I know my engine is sad.[/QUO

my engine still clatters, ive been working on cars/airplanes too == near 40 yrs. i think i know what im doing. i dont give a ,..... what you call an obsession,, who knows you may be stupid

 

Why do some people have an obsession with rethinking Toyota engineering?

C'mon now, you drive a yota by choice and seem to like the vehicle a lot, right? Purpose-designed modifications are their own beasts, but often the goal here is to retain Toyota's reputation for strength and longevity.

I heard somewhere that engines last even longer if you never allow fuel to explode in the cylinders...

 

i worked for the japenesee for many rears. i know how they were thinking in the 80's.. they were very slow to change in the 80's regarding early designs. why do you think the FINALLY changed designs.?
large clearances beat the hell out of your cam and associated parts, i run 006 and 009" and have checked many times and there is plenty of noise,/ clearance and no marks on the back side of the cam from the follower. also, large clearances CAN change valve timing and lift.
over and out for your knowledge based intellect .

 

Sounds like you have far more practical experience than I do which is very useful on a forum like this and thank you for sharing the knowledge.

My understanding of Japanese design in the 80's is rooted in the bicycle industry which I've been a part of since 2002. The fact is Japan nearly shut out every other manufacturer due to greater interest in r&d and tighter QC. Then the Yen crashed and they farmed out much of their production to Taiwan to stay competitive. It worked, but overall quality was better in the mid-80's than by '89.

From what I've heard, they also had a slight edge in computer tech in the 80's so it seems they'd want to apply the same philosophy to their booming auto industry.

I'm not here to tell you what you know for a fact is wrong, you might very well have found valve lash specs that give a slight bump in performance with no chance of engine damage while keeping everything quieter.

Don't you think Toyota would agree with those values and publish them if there were no downsides, though? I realize that the stereotypically cautious Japanese have probably built a decent safety window into the lash but why remove that unless you've blueprinted your own engine?

It seems like you're a good mechanic, so if you have a real answer, I'm all ears and would genuinely like to know.

 

[QUOTE=shambles;52363344]Totally Agree!! 100%
I know this these are very old discussion threads but I've heard way too many people say incorrectly (totally wrong) that 20R / 22R / 22RE engines have noisy valve lash. This is completely FALSE but now has become an accepted urban myth. Toyota 20R/22r/22RE are quiet engines from Factory. I have (1) 76 Celica 20R + (2) identical year Toyota 22RE pickups. (1) 89 4x4 since new and (1) 89 4x2 (used) high mileage but no Head / Gasket replace (total original), None of these engines ever clacked or made any valve train noises what so ever (factory new or high mileage originals), quiet as a mouse except for their purr and on MFI engine a gentle, soft ticking of the injectors.

I also have Factory Service Manuals for all and I can tell you that something is Not correct with valve lash settings. I don't think the FSM has the actual Factory Mfg valve lash settings. My 4x4 previously quite as whisper now has a loud and obnoxious clack a factory lash .008 x .012. New head / valve train and front end. Something is not right and/or we're missing some critical piece of info / Toyota tip.

I plan on checking the 4x2 22RE (which is original quiet at very high mileage) valve lash both Cold and Hot and figure out what's going on. I suspect Toyota runs valve lash tight (factory perfect) and as they wear the lash softens slightly but they don't want to say this in their manuals for some reason.

To summarize, the feedback that Odin gave seems to correlate with my 22RE experience and that the FSM at not quite right.

Odin:
"I have seen a couple of posts from someone who purchased two of these trucks new and worked as an ASE mechanic when these trucks were new and said they had checked several low mileage 22RE's.

This person claimed the FACTORY valve setting on the early 22RE was .006 and .010. HOT (slight drag) and on later years were set at .007 and .011 HOT (heavy drag). They were at a loss why .008 and .012 HOT is specified in the factory service manual because it guaranteed a noisy valve-train and it wasn't that way when they rolled off the assembly line."