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22RE - Low compression? Issues?

Old 09-11-2005, 04:07 AM
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22RE - Low compression? Issues?

I have a 95 4runner with 22re and 220000 KM, figured time for chain, maybe do the cam while I'm there...BUT it has gotten deeper and deeper...and well I need some opinions now.

Teardown getting close to TCC, then we go to take of main drive pulley. Use a breaker bar and find it spins around pretty easily... oh oh there should be alot more resistance at Top Dead Center. Which led to lets do a compression test... which lead to ... Dude, your doing a complete overhaul!

1st cyl 150psi, all the rest were 80-120, so a little problem here
Get the intake manifold off and there is alot of carbon, probably coated about 1mm to 4mm in some spots.
I have noticed lower power, but thought it was a tired 4cyl.. oh well cheap on gas

There seems to be no cross over of fluids; oil black, coolant is dirty brown (looks like it is old tired red stuff). It doesn't burn any oil, and it doesn't over heat.

Does this look like just a valve job? P-iston and rings as well? Or is this more symptomatic of a cracked head?

Input would be greatly appreciated-
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Old 09-11-2005, 05:26 AM
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Compression test is the main test for rings, i would say you need to replace the rings which means rebuild. try and put your hand on top of the pistons and move them fonr to back and side to side, if they are lose that is bad you should have a little play but they should be tight. But in my opinion you should re build or replace. Carbon is from running too rich i think, not a vavle problem but that i am not sure about.

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Old 09-11-2005, 09:03 AM
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i remember doing this before with an engine i picked up to just drop in my truck...lol

then it turned into paying $300 to have the carb rebuilt(big mistake, 9 months later i'm junking it).

then it broke the cam, $200 in parts there, used a cheap head gasket that blew 2 months down the road.

then i redid it with a toyota gasket, and found i had a broken valve guide...

now she sits with a built 20R head...in my yard.

and here i am with my new truck in the garage struggling to put it back together after a timing chain job...funny how things are snowballing, it's not the TC that's the hard part, it's the god-awful intake manifold cluster**** on the 22RE
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Old 09-11-2005, 11:36 AM
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Thanks guys for the quick responses... Kyle when I was searching you seem to have alot of rebuild knowledge, heres some questions maybe you can cover for me;
And your right, this all came from hitting a deer in the spring, that kinda meant I had some work to do, so if I was doing the body... well that led to the heavy maintenance, new exhuast system, coils springs, shocks, wheels and paint.
Thankfully I have some friends that are wrench heads and a strong painter, so the labour is cheap.

But I wanted some opinions on this specifically;

Very low compression on 3 of 4 cylinders, started to to timing chain and couldn't get enough backpressure to loosen main fan pulley, so we went searching for solution; intake manifold is loaded with carbon, but oil and coolant didn't seem to be mixed; put very LOW power on the truck.

so it could be HG, Head, Valves, and or piston rings

Techie friend is leaning towards full head replacement with LC engineered and frankly I dont want to spend the extra 700 on a daily driver if the head is not cracked, a rebuilt seems to be 300 or so. He is trying to convince me of this for a couple of reasons;
a) the 22re head is problematic ( will probably crack sooner or later if I get it machined) I searched the forums and could not find many cracked head references (his was machined and cracked so I see his bias) any truth to this?
b) the toyota 22re head is very innefficient and the LC will provide better thoughput, so little more power and a little more gas mileage.

Im sure a few of you have gone through this and will be able to help with this decision;

Also does anyone know of a reputable machine shop that works on Toyotas in the Kitchener-Waterloo area of Ontario?

What should I be expexcting to pay to have the pistions honed, new seals, and a valve job? The motor will be delivered, I have new TC, Cam, new Waterpump, and gaskets to hand the machinist.
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Old 09-11-2005, 12:18 PM
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I had my head redone by engnbldr and it was about $300 for it with O/S valves, they are in Portland, shipping was not so bad, cheaper than i thought. As for the 22re head being problemmatic I disagree. I think they are one of the better heads around. Also this has happened to me twice once with the above mentioned head and one off of a 3.0 had the heads redone and ran it for a few monthes and then blew the bollom end. I would suggest spending the extra $$ now instead of later cause eventually you will.

And yes Kyle nows his stuff.

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Old 09-11-2005, 04:21 PM
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sounds like the engine is just worn down and could use a rebuild.

the little trick to pulling the balancer off the crank is to put a 1/2" breaker bar with a 19mm socket on there, and positioning the handle just below the passenger side frame rail. disconnect the coil wire and bump the starter. that usually knocks the bolt loose.

if your coolant level is full it's probably not a head gasket. with that many miles, the rings could just be letting go. usually a head gasket will blow between the #3 and #4 cylinders. how did the plugs look?
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Old 09-11-2005, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RED 85
Also this has happened to me twice once with the above mentioned head and one off of a 3.0 had the heads redone and ran it for a few monthes and then blew the bollom end. I would suggest spending the extra $$ now instead of later cause eventually you will
B
Not sure which solution you mean I will be into eventually

I really don't want to replace the head, unless mine is cracked ofcourse
Thinking more just to get the valves and springs replace so a full rebuild on my head
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Old 09-11-2005, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kyle_22r
sounds like the engine is just worn down and could use a rebuild.

the little trick to pulling the balancer off the crank is to put a 1/2" breaker bar with a 19mm socket on there, and positioning the handle just below the passenger side frame rail. disconnect the coil wire and bump the starter. that usually knocks the bolt loose.

if your coolant level is full it's probably not a head gasket. with that many miles, the rings could just be letting go. usually a head gasket will blow between the #3 and #4 cylinders. how did the plugs look?
I knew there was a trick somewhere... so it makes sense that the balancer was able to spin right around with alot of free play?

It is only 130Miles, but I am the second owner, who knows how well it was taken care of before. It seemed on the up and up but previous owner could have been a pizza delivery guy who liked to tow his boat just incase he passed some good water on the way! Seems kinda young from what Im searching through and seeing from others

Plugs looked fine, replaced them last year when I picked up the truck along with wires, distributer etc, maybe have 15K on them. They did have carbon (black soot) on em

No oil buring, nothing noticable through the tail pipe

What would make you suspect a cracked head? What would I likely see?

Any ideas about the carbon build up in the intake manifold? Very thick on the banks where the air would logically flow Up to 1/2 inch in some areas?

I really cant do any more testing as we ripped it down so I can take the engine right into the machinst.

Im thinking in the 600-700 US for the engine teardown, rebuild and put back together?

Last edited by GreenLeafYota; 09-11-2005 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 09-11-2005, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by GreenLeafYota
Not sure which solution you mean I will be into eventually

I really don't want to replace the head, unless mine is cracked ofcourse
Thinking more just to get the valves and springs replace so a full rebuild on my head
If you rebuild or replace your head and do nothing to the bottom the bottom will go sooner or later. Is what i was trying to say so i would rebuild the whole engine now, so you don't have to later. Sorry for sounding so confusing.
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Old 09-11-2005, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by GreenLeafYota
Any ideas about the carbon build up in the intake manifold? Very thick on the banks where the air would logically flow Up to 1/2 inch in some areas?

I really cant do any more testing as we ripped it down so I can take the engine right into the machinst.

Im thinking in the 600-700 US for the engine teardown, rebuild and put back together?
the reason for having a big carbon buildup in the intake is from the EGR valve. unlike the carbed trucks that have the EGR port after the fuel is mixed into the air(well, kinda hard not to do it that way with a carb), the 22R-E has the EGR long before there is any fuel in there, so there's nothing to wash it away. mine was pretty nasty looking too, but i didn't really touch it as i was in a hurry.
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Old 09-12-2005, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kyle_22r
the reason for having a big carbon buildup in the intake is from the EGR valve. unlike the carbed trucks that have the EGR port after the fuel is mixed into the air(well, kinda hard not to do it that way with a carb), the 22R-E has the EGR long before there is any fuel in there, so there's nothing to wash it away. mine was pretty nasty looking too, but i didn't really touch it as i was in a hurry.
Ok well then this sounds like it is pretty standard on the 22re and not necessarily symptomatic of other problems.

Machine shop wanted $1300 if I brought the engine and had him tear it down and and rebuild with parts I was going to supply. (no new cylinder head)

So we have decided to order a master rebuild kit from engnbldr along with a new head assembly ($650 for both), going to tear down the engine take the block in for honing and dip, then install everything ourselves.

We have gone this far tearing down the engine can't be much more work.

Is the RV head, ported with OS valves worth it?

Again thanks for all your help.
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Old 09-12-2005, 05:28 PM
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everything i've heard tells me that it's worth it. not a bad deal by any means, you get the peace of mind knowing that there's no corrosion waiting to eat into the combustion chamber and no cracks.

i feel that the bottom end of one of these engines is the easiest part to rebuild. took me about 4 hours to put a 22R short block together, and i took my time and double checked everything. just make sure you remember where all the bolts go on the timing cover, that's the hardest part about putting one of these together IMHO.
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Old 09-13-2005, 09:45 AM
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Kyle,

The intake build up. Did you think it was 'normal' and just has to be cleaned out? Or would you suspect an EGR Valve?

Since Im replacing/rebuilding everything else, should I replace it?

I have notice a couple of times where the idle jumped up and down.
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Old 09-13-2005, 05:35 PM
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it's pretty normal, as the EGR dumps in before the fuel is added to the intake charge. there's nothing in there to wash it away so it cools and forms carbon deposits on the inside of the intake. carb cleaner or some other nasty solvents will probably take care of it.
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