AH64ID

Okay Okay, I know I have another forum out there on this, but its garbeled and I want to put out what I have found..

Headers

TRD/Thorley (TRD is cast, Thorley is billet) Tri-Y, mid-upper RPM, with a low TQ increase at the bottom end. Available in ceramic... 1.5" primaries, 2.25" collecter (stock style flange) (Thorley $338 Ceramic, TRD ??? Probally more it is TRD)


Downey 4:1, tuned for 2-3K, but still good across range. 1 3/8" Primaries, 2.5" Collecter (Slip-fit). They claim the smaller primairs provide for a better bottem end, and allow use of a 2.5" exhaust for better flow at cruise speed. Avaliable in ceramic. ($379 Ceramic)


LCE 4:1, tuned for low end TQ, and improvent up to 6K+. 1.5" Primaries, 2.25" collecter (stock style flange) All are ceramic coated and stainless ($358)


Pace Setter 4:1, tuned for entire range...couldnt find a specific range. 1.5" Primaries, 2.25" collecter (3 bolt rolled flange) Availible in ceramic coated ($266 coated)


It seems that the 1.5" primary with a 2.25" collecter is the most common. IT doesn't look like the Tri-Y is the best for low end torque. Based on what I found the Downey is the best header for wheeling RPM's.

As far as exhausts go...

Downey makes two, cat-back and header back (with a cat)($390), both are 2.5" mandrel bent with a magnaflow muffler stamped with the downey name. The one with a cat has a #94006 2.5" stainless hi-flow cat from car sound.


Pace Setter has the cheapest catback, 2.25" mandrel bent, with a ?? muffler ($195).


Thorley has a Jardine exhaust cat-back, 2.25" mandrel bent ($267)


LCE has their own, stainless 2.25" mandrel bent cat back ($390)


Unfortunally Flowmaster doesnt have one. I prefer the flowmaster sound, they have a 60 series in 2.25", or the original 50 series in 2.25 or 2.5" if you want to build your own, both are about $95.

The cat that Downey uses is universal slip fit cat that runs about $60.

2.25" is the most common, but Downey claims their header can run a 2.5" and get 3 more hp, then with a 2.25" and still have great bottom end torque.

I left NWOR out on purpose, I refuse to do any business with them...

So not to keep kicking the exhaust horse, but that is what I have found out there.

Personally I will probally go with either the Downey or LCE header, and build my own 2.25" exhaust with a car-sound cat and Flowmaster 60 series; I also want to run my tailpipe to a different location than stock so I dont rip it off ... I know I could probally run a 2.5" with the downey, but this isnt my hwy rig, the 03 runner i, and I want all the low end grunt I can get. I also have a heavy weight flywheel and centerforce DF that will be going on with the exhaust.

Elton

awsome man....also lce headers are stainless steel and ceramic coated just to let you no

tc

I had major problems with exhaust leaks with my pacesetter header on my 22R. It did help with the power - not sure where the "tuning was" though. The Thorley is definitely more tuned than the Pacesetter.

Definitely get the ceramic coating - it's awesome. Greatly helps with the heat and always looks good.

nmtoy

I have the Jardine catback behind an NWOR header and Magnaflow cat and it sounds like very ricey. I will probably change it out for a Flowmaster 50 to quiet it down some. I do not recommend the Jardine catback!

Robb

kyle_22r

did you just say that thorley headers are billet and trd headers are cast? they're both made from WELDED mild steel tubing!

i've got a thorley 542-Y on my '79 with a hybrid engine. the fit was just plain awesome, but the welding on the flange left something to be desired as it started leaking as soon as i fired up my engine. i eventually fixed it but it was rather irritating for a while. other than that, it's been a good product, and really let my engine make a lot more power over the early style JUNK cast manifold with 1 runner.

AH64ID

The billet vs. cast is the flange......

trythis

I don't understand why the LCE is designed for low end torq, but that you feel the tri-Y is better for low end, when you wrote, Thorley "with a low TQ increase at the bottom end." THat doesnt sound like it's better for low end. Just curious, was it something people said, or are you leaning towards the Thorley cause of looks, and it just "feels" like it would be better.
What about using the stock header, and using the 2" to the Cat and 2 1/4 back? I thnk that's the LCE recommended way to do it. The 22RE maniflod is built like a header anyway, unless yours is leaking, or broken.

AH64ID

All of the info, with the exception of the Pace Setter, was info received directly from the companies. It was simply what each header/exhaust is designed to help with. There was only a small comparison at the bottom of the post, but each person will have different requirments from their truck. Mine is my daily driver and trail rig, but to and from work I dont get above 65, so I dont mind building it towards a decent trail rpm range.

Typically a Tri-Y setup is for increased bottom end. But all the headers are trying to boost the bottom end as much as possible. The 4:1 is just harder to tune than a Tri-Y, but it appears that Downey and LCE have tunded theres very well.

I am personally leaning towards a LCE or Downey. I llike the LCE because its stainless, but the Downey because of the smaller primaires that help with TQ.

Replacing the stock manifold with a header on a 22R/RE is considered one of the best upgrades you can do. The 22RE manifold is somewhat desigened like a header, but its still a manifold. When I replaced the manifold on my 95 runner with a downey header and the stock exhaust the difference was night and day, I could use 5th gear on hills i used to have to use 4th.

LCE reccomends using their header and 2.25" cat back exhaust. The header is part of the EFI power package.

kyle_22r

no, the flanges are still mild steel!

also, "manifold" and "header" are subjective. the manifold used on '83 or '84 and newer trucks, celicas and 4runners IS a tri-y header. the best bang for your buck is not to get rid of it, but extend the runners coming out of the bottom so they don't immediately merge after they exit the manifold, but make them more like a full length header. then run it 2" to the muffler, 2.25 to the tailpipe.

AH64ID

The cast vs billet steel is word for word from Doug Thorley, I assume they know about their headers...

I saw a major increase from installing a header on my 95. More than from the exhaust, and a Stage II TRD cam.

kyle_22r

well, i hate to tell you this, then they're idiots! these are the same guys that said my early 22R header wasn't compatible with a 20R head...despite them having the same ports and identical bolt pattern. thorley headers aren't made by doug thorley any more either, he split with his wife and she got the company and sold it to summit, he operates under the name "doug's headers" now, but doesn't make them for toyotas. "thorley headers" are mass produced by summit, so that's why they're so cheap.

there is no advantage to using billet over mild steel for a header flange, and i can assure you nobody uses cast!

BLKNBLU

iTrader: (1)

Here is the part number for TRD 00642-17141-014. They have it over at TRDparts4u (Strap22) for $299. I'll send them an e mail and see if we can get some stats on that one as well. I like that Downey setup so that everything fits together from one kit, but I would be hesitant to run 2.5" on our 22r's. This is a nice thread for comparing systems. Thanks for putting it together.

TRD link:You will have to type in (or paste) the part #

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...&siteid=214074

AH64ID

I just ordered the LCE header. Even though I had awesome luck with my downey (now RiverCats), I wanted to go with a stainless ceramic header. And its about 30 cheaper than the Downey.

I am going to have a custom exhast bent, I will loose a little flow, but oh well. I want the tailpipe to be hidden and above my allpro bumper.

I just got off the phone with Car-Sound about their cats. The 53000, which is the non-californa reccommend cat flows the least. The 91000 and the 94000 flow about the same, the 94000 has a larger case, so it just depends on what size case you want to run. The 94000 is 3" longer than the 91000, 16" vs 13", diameters are the same. I am going to put the 91005 in, I dont want to go too big since it is a 4cyl, and I have a reg cab, so space is a bit more limited.

I am going to use a 2.25" Flowmaster 60 series. I like the sound a 22RE makes with a flowmaster. I had the 50 series before, and I am hoping the 60 is a bit quieter.

FilthyRich

if Thorley is junk now, then is the TRD OK???

pinnacle

I have the LCE header sitting in my garage. Should be installing it this weekend with a Magnaflow cat and flowmaster 40. I'm hoping its not going to be too loud.

AH64ID

I had a 50 series flowmaster and a downey header. I also didnt have a cat. But it was SOOO loud I added a 12" glaspack where the cat used to be to make it quiter. Dont get me wrong, the sound was great, but it was annoying at hwy speeds, that and I was pulled over a couple of times for being too loud....something about 5K thru downtown at 1am....

FilthyRich

Would keeping the stock manifold on my 88 be better, then modify the runners and get a new muffler with 2" pipe to a 2.25" tailpipe??

AH64ID

I dont think so, I had a major increase in perfomance and economy when I put a header on my 95. Single biggest imporvment.

BUNYKLR

Can you run a 22re without a cat converter? I live in Kansas and it's not required to have one, you just can't have an exhaust shop remove it. However, if it "falls off" then they aren't required to replace it.

Elton

i have a custom intake with a k&n fipk a lce header no cat 2-1/4 catback to a flowmaster delta 40 its pretty loud but man when you drive around town in 3rd gear around 1800rpms its sounds soo awsome ..dont sound any thing like a 4banger... i might get a lce cat if i get some cash