22re break in
09-26-2011, 08:00 AM
#21
yes sir chef I used a ton of grease on all the new seals packed the inner part and the seal outside contact point area, I didn't put them on dry and did the FIPG on the areas on the rear seal housing and timing cover top and bottom I used the toyota FIPG black on oil area like the rear seal housing and oil pan and the Toy FIPG orange on the trans input seal/bearing housing. I did all that stuff right. got finger crosssed :}
I emailed Ted like 1am eastern time last night and here is his responce,
Probably it didn't do any harm, not with that much lube. All that matters is to keep oil flowing which is why we suggest a fast idle.
Fix the tuning issues and start her up, run her between 1200 and 1500 RPM until warm. Then do a final valve adjust and tune, take her for a brisk drive.
I then responded,
I did keep idle up to a good fast idle while at the same time I adujusted the set screw on TB and turned the distributor till it finally idled and it ran smoothly with no wierd noises or knock/knocking or leaks, got fingers crossed. I opened the oil fill cap a couple times to check flow and the oil was splattering around like normal and I saw no blowby during the faster idle. I'll check timing too tomorrow and do the valve adjustment and check headbolt torque...I bought new dealer oem plug, cap, rotor and wires. After the brisk drive change the oil? then change it again at 1500, then regular 3000 oil changes after that?
Ted last one said,
K..She should be just fine then. No real need to change the oil that much, we usually do it fairly soon, like within a week or so after a full breakin, then use normal intervals.
Good luck with her,
Ted
I'll do any further update on my build thread. If you haven't yet please do, it's very good with lots and lots of pics. Enjoy and have fun :}LOL
I emailed Ted like 1am eastern time last night and here is his responce,
Probably it didn't do any harm, not with that much lube. All that matters is to keep oil flowing which is why we suggest a fast idle.
Fix the tuning issues and start her up, run her between 1200 and 1500 RPM until warm. Then do a final valve adjust and tune, take her for a brisk drive.
I then responded,
I did keep idle up to a good fast idle while at the same time I adujusted the set screw on TB and turned the distributor till it finally idled and it ran smoothly with no wierd noises or knock/knocking or leaks, got fingers crossed. I opened the oil fill cap a couple times to check flow and the oil was splattering around like normal and I saw no blowby during the faster idle. I'll check timing too tomorrow and do the valve adjustment and check headbolt torque...I bought new dealer oem plug, cap, rotor and wires. After the brisk drive change the oil? then change it again at 1500, then regular 3000 oil changes after that?
Ted last one said,
K..She should be just fine then. No real need to change the oil that much, we usually do it fairly soon, like within a week or so after a full breakin, then use normal intervals.
Good luck with her,
Ted
I'll do any further update on my build thread. If you haven't yet please do, it's very good with lots and lots of pics. Enjoy and have fun :}LOL
Last edited by john4wd; 09-26-2011 at 08:01 AM.
09-26-2011, 08:36 PM
#24
I have no idea on the marval mystery oil, I don't know whats in it, what does the bottle say? Did someone suggest using tha combo 5w-30 and the marval mysery oil for break-in?
09-27-2011, 11:02 AM
#25
I WOULDN'T know for sure whether you 'SHOULD' use Marvel Oil, personally. But, the first run with the first oil in a fresh build is PARTLY for catching as much as possible in the oil and trapping those particulates in there, which then come to the bottom and drain out with the first oil change(most of it, anyway, lol)... Not sure if the Marvel would prevent that.... And...
The other reason I've been told you want just straight oil most often is because it will help to more quickly get the rings to start seating... I think that when we use certain longevity products that are SUPER viscous, ... the cylinders can glaze over almost immediately, making it take a lot longer for the rings to seat. (I used a non-detergent oil and a zinc additive in the last build before this one, which was done by a KNOB, lol...... and after 5000 miles, when I tore it down, the rings had STILL not really fully seated. My second machinist who helped teach me how to fully rebuild a motor and then built it with me, ended up telling me, that he actually prefers to use 'detergent' oils, because they aid in trapping/suspending debris, etc., much better than non-detergent oil.... Plus he was not a big fan of the 'zinc additive' method, either... He said it was a catch 22 type thing??? lol).
Again, I would consult the 'machinists' like Putney's and Engnbldr on this one, because they would know. Others, like trainwreckinseattle, a member here, who has assembled/built HUNDREDS of these motors as well, ....well, he could tell you as well, but might not see this thread, ya know?
This is why engine lube is so important... Plus, when you're cranking over a new motor, you're HOPEFULLY told to 'prime the pump', which helps to bring up the oil pressure MUCH faster. The grease helps to maintain a nice anti-abrasive assist UNTIL the oil pressure can be built up within the first 30 seconds of running the motor for the first time, ya know? Many times I've heard to just pull the coil and crank over the engine a few times, watching the oil pressure. As the needle starts to rise, it means the oil has MOSTLY filled the galleys and pump and is beginning to create solid oil pressure where the rocker rods/pads/cam are beginning to get sprayed with fresh oil. Then, the oil travels down into the pan and HOPEFULLY, any shavings of metal and debris will remain there until you drain it, along with most of the engine lube which should be trapped/suspended in the oil and drain out while draining the oil.
Pretty sure that Premature Cam Lobe Failure and Glazing of Cylinders is the primary concern with break ins.
09-27-2011, 11:41 AM
#26
Here's an example of how WIDE people vary on 'BREAK IN'....
The poster, SB5walker, is a member here, while this post is on another site........
************************************************** *******************
sb5walker
03-17-2010, 03:07 PM
Well there are some recommendations that almost everyone agrees on, and there are others that are a huge hairy debate.
What almost everyone agrees on is:
When first started, let it idle until the motor reaches operating temp.
During the break-in period, avoid long periods of steady throttle; it's better to vary engine speed and load. This means no long trips on the highway for the first 5000 miles. It also means don't let it idle for a long time.
Avoid very high RPM; most say to keep RPMs below 4000 as much as possible.
Use a 5W-30 or 10W-30 mineral oil (not synthetic) with appropriate break-in additives (ZDDP and possibly MOLY).
What is debatable:
Break-in period: some say 5000 miles, others say up to 20,000. I'm with the 5000 mile crowd, but the true answer is revealed by monitoring oil consumption closely: when oil use drops to negligible, the rings have seated.
Break-in technique: a huge debate between babying the motor vs. using a process of full throttle (but NOT high RPM) cycles to seat the rings.
For new engines, it's simple: follow the manufacturers recommendations, most (but not all) of which are in the baby-it school. However, modern engine manufacturers have a higher degree of control of the cylinder finish, which is not the same as a with rebuilt motor. For rebuilt motors, I'm with those who recommend using a specific process of applying pressure to the rings to aid in the ring seating process. That is, with the motor at operating temp, and in 4th gear with engine at 2000 rpm, floor it until 3500 rpm is reached, then foot off the pedal to allow the engine to return to 2000 rpm, then full throttle again to 3500 and repeat, for a total of 10 cycles. Obviously you don't want anybody behind you when you're doing this! This technique puts extra pressure on the rings which will help to seat them. If you have to stop the vehicle before you have done 10 cycles, you don't have to start over, just do the cycles you missed.
During the break-in period you don't want to thrash the motor, but it's okay to give it an extra dose of throttle now and again - just don't exceed 4k rpms.
Here are some debates on the ring seating process:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1724994
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...at&Number=5655
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=552173
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...ed-yet-159488/
The very controversial 'drive it like you stole it' article - myself, I think the guy goes a bit overboard:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Here are some threads on the break-in process:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=117189
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...k-time-110235/
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=195763
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f123...engine-206636/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/22re-break-103717/
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1739976
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...-break-150752/
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=125008
BREAK-IN OIL:
Traditionally, it has been recommended to use mineral oil (petroleum), and not synthetic oil, during the break-in procedure. Lately, some high-end carmakers have delivered new vehicles from the factory with a synthetic break-in oil, but that is not recommended for a rebuilt motor. Apparently, the reason mineral oil is recommended is because with synthetic, glazing of cylinder walls can occur when high spots in the cyl walls that are left over from honing get folded flat rather than cut cleanly off. This article from Road & Track Technical Correspondence column gives the full explanation:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=259168
Using too-thick oil can cause glazing, too. So a mineral 5W-30 or 10W-30 is good to use for seating rings, but there is still the question of protecting bearings, valves and cam during the break-in period. For this, there is near-univeral agreement that it is good to use an oil with a break-in additive containing ZDDP (zinc and phosphorus) and possibly also MOLY (molybdenum disulfide). So there are two ways to go: either use a special mineral 10W-30 break-in oil such as Joe Gibbs BR30 ($8/qt shipped) or Comp Cam 1590 ($5/qt), or buy your own inexpensive mineral 10W-30 and add a break-in additive such as Red Line's http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=121&pcid=1 . Comp Cam's . Howards Cams or Crane Cam's.
Another factor is that you should not use an oil with friction modifiers. Friction modifiers are highly polarized molecules that bond to metal parts, causing the oil to be too slippery, possibly leading to the cylinder glazing problem that can come from using synthetic oil. To know whether an oil has friction modifiers, look at the SAE seal - oils with friction modifiers have the words "ENERGY CONSERVING" in the lower half of the donut:
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo...tarburst_H.jpg
Another possibility would be if the oil is recommended for use with a motorcycle wet clutch. The oils with friction modifiers cause the clutch to slip. Oils that are okay to use with motorcycle wet clutches, and therefore would be candidates for a break-in oil, have the 'JASO-MA' certification. But many motorcycle oils are greater than 10W-30 viscosity, so this tip may not be of much use.
The other point about oil is that it should be changed (together with the filter) at 500 miles to remove the metal filings and other crap that come from a freshly rebuilt engine. For the second fill, there is some debate. Some say you should change it after 1500 miles. Some say you can go a bit longer. For the third and later changes, you can go the recommended distance based on what oil you use. For an average mineral oil, that is 3000 miles. For an excellent mineral oil, you can go 4000 miles. Because most mineral 5W-30s will shear (lose viscosity) down to a too-thin 5W-20 in less than 3000 miles, I would use 10W30 for the third and later oil fills. Again, be sure to use the break-in additive for at least the first 5000 miles. After 5000 miles, it's okay to use a synthetic oil if you prefer.
Some break-in oil threads from the geeks at bobistheoilguy:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1773847
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1021388
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1191630
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1156060
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1765959
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=197389
OIL FILTER:
The ONLY filter I'd use during break-in is a Toyota 90915-YZZD3 which is taller than the stock 90915-YZZD1. It has 27% more filtering area so it will be able to collect more crap before clogging. World Toyota (http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...?siteid=214140) sell's em for $3.56 - gawd, what a bargain. Your local dealer should sell you 10 of them for $40. If not, try another dealer or a different person at the parts counter on another day.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_1702.jpg
I wouldn't use any other filter, not even the Purolator PureONE PL20195 which would be an excellent alternative to the YZZD3 after the break-in period. But its pores are too fine, I think, for break-in and I would worry about it clogging. See this thread for mega info on oil filters:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=312722
ADD'L POINTS:
Make sure the pcv valve is clear or new; there will be a good bit of blow-by until the rings seat.
Use Toyota Red antifreeze mixed only with distilled water, and follow procedures to make sure the engine has a good fill of coolant and you get all the air out:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...66#post2897091
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=314868
************************************************** *******************
Have an aneurism of the brain yet? hahaha. See the Zinc mentioned? Well, I've had several machinists that say "NO WAY, that's old school nonsense... just need to properly lube the cam and NEVER hold it at idle until warm... Go RIGHT TO 2000RPM and then vary back and forth according to CAM manufacturer". Who's right? MEH! lol. This is why I ask Tod/Ted/Putney's/My Machinist who's been doing it 45 years, ya know? ME? I'm a newb, pretty much.... and yet, I know there HAS TO BE SOMETHING that's best, right? hahahah.
The poster, SB5walker, is a member here, while this post is on another site........
************************************************** *******************
sb5walker
03-17-2010, 03:07 PM
Well there are some recommendations that almost everyone agrees on, and there are others that are a huge hairy debate.
What almost everyone agrees on is:
When first started, let it idle until the motor reaches operating temp.
During the break-in period, avoid long periods of steady throttle; it's better to vary engine speed and load. This means no long trips on the highway for the first 5000 miles. It also means don't let it idle for a long time.
Avoid very high RPM; most say to keep RPMs below 4000 as much as possible.
Use a 5W-30 or 10W-30 mineral oil (not synthetic) with appropriate break-in additives (ZDDP and possibly MOLY).
What is debatable:
Break-in period: some say 5000 miles, others say up to 20,000. I'm with the 5000 mile crowd, but the true answer is revealed by monitoring oil consumption closely: when oil use drops to negligible, the rings have seated.
Break-in technique: a huge debate between babying the motor vs. using a process of full throttle (but NOT high RPM) cycles to seat the rings.
For new engines, it's simple: follow the manufacturers recommendations, most (but not all) of which are in the baby-it school. However, modern engine manufacturers have a higher degree of control of the cylinder finish, which is not the same as a with rebuilt motor. For rebuilt motors, I'm with those who recommend using a specific process of applying pressure to the rings to aid in the ring seating process. That is, with the motor at operating temp, and in 4th gear with engine at 2000 rpm, floor it until 3500 rpm is reached, then foot off the pedal to allow the engine to return to 2000 rpm, then full throttle again to 3500 and repeat, for a total of 10 cycles. Obviously you don't want anybody behind you when you're doing this! This technique puts extra pressure on the rings which will help to seat them. If you have to stop the vehicle before you have done 10 cycles, you don't have to start over, just do the cycles you missed.
During the break-in period you don't want to thrash the motor, but it's okay to give it an extra dose of throttle now and again - just don't exceed 4k rpms.
Here are some debates on the ring seating process:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1724994
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...at&Number=5655
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=552173
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...ed-yet-159488/
The very controversial 'drive it like you stole it' article - myself, I think the guy goes a bit overboard:
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Here are some threads on the break-in process:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=117189
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...k-time-110235/
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=195763
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f123...engine-206636/
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/22re-break-103717/
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1739976
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116...-break-150752/
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=125008
BREAK-IN OIL:
Traditionally, it has been recommended to use mineral oil (petroleum), and not synthetic oil, during the break-in procedure. Lately, some high-end carmakers have delivered new vehicles from the factory with a synthetic break-in oil, but that is not recommended for a rebuilt motor. Apparently, the reason mineral oil is recommended is because with synthetic, glazing of cylinder walls can occur when high spots in the cyl walls that are left over from honing get folded flat rather than cut cleanly off. This article from Road & Track Technical Correspondence column gives the full explanation:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...&Number=259168
Using too-thick oil can cause glazing, too. So a mineral 5W-30 or 10W-30 is good to use for seating rings, but there is still the question of protecting bearings, valves and cam during the break-in period. For this, there is near-univeral agreement that it is good to use an oil with a break-in additive containing ZDDP (zinc and phosphorus) and possibly also MOLY (molybdenum disulfide). So there are two ways to go: either use a special mineral 10W-30 break-in oil such as Joe Gibbs BR30 ($8/qt shipped) or Comp Cam 1590 ($5/qt), or buy your own inexpensive mineral 10W-30 and add a break-in additive such as Red Line's http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=121&pcid=1 . Comp Cam's . Howards Cams or Crane Cam's.
Another factor is that you should not use an oil with friction modifiers. Friction modifiers are highly polarized molecules that bond to metal parts, causing the oil to be too slippery, possibly leading to the cylinder glazing problem that can come from using synthetic oil. To know whether an oil has friction modifiers, look at the SAE seal - oils with friction modifiers have the words "ENERGY CONSERVING" in the lower half of the donut:
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo...tarburst_H.jpg
Another possibility would be if the oil is recommended for use with a motorcycle wet clutch. The oils with friction modifiers cause the clutch to slip. Oils that are okay to use with motorcycle wet clutches, and therefore would be candidates for a break-in oil, have the 'JASO-MA' certification. But many motorcycle oils are greater than 10W-30 viscosity, so this tip may not be of much use.
The other point about oil is that it should be changed (together with the filter) at 500 miles to remove the metal filings and other crap that come from a freshly rebuilt engine. For the second fill, there is some debate. Some say you should change it after 1500 miles. Some say you can go a bit longer. For the third and later changes, you can go the recommended distance based on what oil you use. For an average mineral oil, that is 3000 miles. For an excellent mineral oil, you can go 4000 miles. Because most mineral 5W-30s will shear (lose viscosity) down to a too-thin 5W-20 in less than 3000 miles, I would use 10W30 for the third and later oil fills. Again, be sure to use the break-in additive for at least the first 5000 miles. After 5000 miles, it's okay to use a synthetic oil if you prefer.
Some break-in oil threads from the geeks at bobistheoilguy:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1773847
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1021388
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1191630
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1156060
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1765959
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=197389
OIL FILTER:
The ONLY filter I'd use during break-in is a Toyota 90915-YZZD3 which is taller than the stock 90915-YZZD1. It has 27% more filtering area so it will be able to collect more crap before clogging. World Toyota (http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...?siteid=214140) sell's em for $3.56 - gawd, what a bargain. Your local dealer should sell you 10 of them for $40. If not, try another dealer or a different person at the parts counter on another day.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...r/IMG_1702.jpg
I wouldn't use any other filter, not even the Purolator PureONE PL20195 which would be an excellent alternative to the YZZD3 after the break-in period. But its pores are too fine, I think, for break-in and I would worry about it clogging. See this thread for mega info on oil filters:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=312722
ADD'L POINTS:
Make sure the pcv valve is clear or new; there will be a good bit of blow-by until the rings seat.
Use Toyota Red antifreeze mixed only with distilled water, and follow procedures to make sure the engine has a good fill of coolant and you get all the air out:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...66#post2897091
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=314868
************************************************** *******************
Have an aneurism of the brain yet? hahaha. See the Zinc mentioned? Well, I've had several machinists that say "NO WAY, that's old school nonsense... just need to properly lube the cam and NEVER hold it at idle until warm... Go RIGHT TO 2000RPM and then vary back and forth according to CAM manufacturer". Who's right? MEH! lol. This is why I ask Tod/Ted/Putney's/My Machinist who's been doing it 45 years, ya know? ME? I'm a newb, pretty much.... and yet, I know there HAS TO BE SOMETHING that's best, right? hahahah.
11-16-2011, 10:45 AM
#27
Registered User
Good information on the break in process of a new/rebuilt engine.
I am having a rebuilt 22RE performance long block installed next week and would like some advice for my situation. Thought maybe I should do things slightly different possibly for the type of motor, cam, elevation, etc. (I really don't know... that's why I'm asking for help).
The engine is a 22RE with Keith Black Hyperutechtic pistons (9.7:1) and 272 cam.
I am having this done in a rush because I need it to get back home once I get relaesed back to work Nov. 28th. When I say rush I mean the motor will be arriving early next week and hopefully complete before thursday (Thanksgiving). Monday I will be driving 260 miles back home with elevation changes from 4K feet to 7K+ feet.
I was told to use break in oil (Brad Penn break in oil) along with a Zinc additive. The builder explained the initial break in percedure as: go through all the gears shifting before 4K RPM and without exceeding 55mph (repeat 10-15X). Also, mentioned to re-torque the head as a percaution after the initial break in percedure.
I'm just worried that my truck will be done last minute that monday and I'll have to drive strait home once picking it up.
Some questions:
Will it be okay to change the oil after making my 260 mile trip? (I don't want metal shavings floating in my new rebuilt engine.)
Will I need to adjust the valves soon after break in? (if not, how long after?)
Thanks for any help. I'm new to the 22RE and have already found this forum to be a great information resource.
I am having a rebuilt 22RE performance long block installed next week and would like some advice for my situation. Thought maybe I should do things slightly different possibly for the type of motor, cam, elevation, etc. (I really don't know... that's why I'm asking for help).
The engine is a 22RE with Keith Black Hyperutechtic pistons (9.7:1) and 272 cam.
I am having this done in a rush because I need it to get back home once I get relaesed back to work Nov. 28th. When I say rush I mean the motor will be arriving early next week and hopefully complete before thursday (Thanksgiving). Monday I will be driving 260 miles back home with elevation changes from 4K feet to 7K+ feet.
I was told to use break in oil (Brad Penn break in oil) along with a Zinc additive. The builder explained the initial break in percedure as: go through all the gears shifting before 4K RPM and without exceeding 55mph (repeat 10-15X). Also, mentioned to re-torque the head as a percaution after the initial break in percedure.
I'm just worried that my truck will be done last minute that monday and I'll have to drive strait home once picking it up.
Some questions:
Will it be okay to change the oil after making my 260 mile trip? (I don't want metal shavings floating in my new rebuilt engine.)
Will I need to adjust the valves soon after break in? (if not, how long after?)
Thanks for any help. I'm new to the 22RE and have already found this forum to be a great information resource.
Last edited by JPL; 11-16-2011 at 10:46 AM.
11-18-2011, 11:07 AM
#28
Registered User
It will be fine. Just make shor no leaks and take a gallon on water and a quart of oil and check belts and let her ride. U should prob put almost a thousands miles on the break in anyway so that trip should be fine. Just stop every so often and take a break is what I would do
Last edited by 86yotaswampmonster; 11-18-2011 at 11:09 AM.
11-18-2011, 01:04 PM
#29
Registered User
Good information on the break in process of a new/rebuilt engine.
I am having a rebuilt 22RE performance long block installed next week and would like some advice for my situation. Thought maybe I should do things slightly different possibly for the type of motor, cam, elevation, etc. (I really don't know... that's why I'm asking for help).
The engine is a 22RE with Keith Black Hyperutechtic pistons (9.7:1) and 272 cam.
I am having this done in a rush because I need it to get back home once I get relaesed back to work Nov. 28th. When I say rush I mean the motor will be arriving early next week and hopefully complete before thursday (Thanksgiving). Monday I will be driving 260 miles back home with elevation changes from 4K feet to 7K+ feet.
I was told to use break in oil (Brad Penn break in oil) along with a Zinc additive. The builder explained the initial break in percedure as: go through all the gears shifting before 4K RPM and without exceeding 55mph (repeat 10-15X). Also, mentioned to re-torque the head as a percaution after the initial break in percedure.
I'm just worried that my truck will be done last minute that monday and I'll have to drive strait home once picking it up.
Some questions:
Will it be okay to change the oil after making my 260 mile trip? (I don't want metal shavings floating in my new rebuilt engine.)
Will I need to adjust the valves soon after break in? (if not, how long after?)
Thanks for any help. I'm new to the 22RE and have already found this forum to be a great information resource.
I am having a rebuilt 22RE performance long block installed next week and would like some advice for my situation. Thought maybe I should do things slightly different possibly for the type of motor, cam, elevation, etc. (I really don't know... that's why I'm asking for help).
The engine is a 22RE with Keith Black Hyperutechtic pistons (9.7:1) and 272 cam.
I am having this done in a rush because I need it to get back home once I get relaesed back to work Nov. 28th. When I say rush I mean the motor will be arriving early next week and hopefully complete before thursday (Thanksgiving). Monday I will be driving 260 miles back home with elevation changes from 4K feet to 7K+ feet.
I was told to use break in oil (Brad Penn break in oil) along with a Zinc additive. The builder explained the initial break in percedure as: go through all the gears shifting before 4K RPM and without exceeding 55mph (repeat 10-15X). Also, mentioned to re-torque the head as a percaution after the initial break in percedure.
I'm just worried that my truck will be done last minute that monday and I'll have to drive strait home once picking it up.
Some questions:
Will it be okay to change the oil after making my 260 mile trip? (I don't want metal shavings floating in my new rebuilt engine.)
Will I need to adjust the valves soon after break in? (if not, how long after?)
Thanks for any help. I'm new to the 22RE and have already found this forum to be a great information resource.
Break in procedures vary but here is what I did...
I used a zinc additive from Lucas oil and straight 30 weight oil to get the oil pressure up.
Break in the cam for 20 minutes varying the throttle around 2500 RPM's. Then set your timing to 5* BTDC.
Then turn if off and let it cool completely.
Drive it again (don't baby it) varying speed and gears for about 20 minutes.
Let engine cool completely.
Do this again until the engine has had 5 complete hot/cool cycles. It helps to seat the rings.
Change the oil, the oil will look nasty.
Drive it like you stole it for the next 250 miles, change the oil
Drive it like you stole it for the next 1,000 miles, change the oil
Drive it like you stole it for the next 3,000 miles, change the oil.
Do not switch to synthetic until at least 5,000 miles.
However your using Keith Black pistons, which have a bad rap for the rings never seating. I hope your builder is using a torque plate to help your piston rings have a fighting chance of seating. Good luck.
11-18-2011, 01:31 PM
#30
Registered User
on my 3vz (not a 22re but oh well)
i was told to do first start up, let it run long enough to make sure nothing is wrong and to set timing. then shut it down, change the oil. then run it like a red headed step child for 500miles and change the oil again.
and in that first 500 miles, i was told to do numerous trips to 5000rpms and then let the motor slow itself back down to around 1500, then run it up again to 5000rpms and back down to around 1500, i did this all the way to 4th gear numerous numerous numerous times.
i still drive the truck like a red headed stepchild, and this thing will MOVE. idk wtf is up with guys saying they're slow, this thing will GO (for a 150hp vs in a 5500lb suv)
i have an oil leak(cam seals, both of them, mainly driverside though) so i'm not 100% sure if i'm burning any oil, but if i am it is a very small amount because i never have any blue smoke or a smell of burning oil.
so i did a immediate oil change after startup, then a 500 mile oil change, then a change at 1500 miles, then another change at 3000miles, and then every 3000 miles since.
i'm now at around 12,000 or a little over, and i'm getting ready to make the switch to synthetic within the next couple of oil changes (probably Royal purple, but not certain.)
i was told to do first start up, let it run long enough to make sure nothing is wrong and to set timing. then shut it down, change the oil. then run it like a red headed step child for 500miles and change the oil again.
and in that first 500 miles, i was told to do numerous trips to 5000rpms and then let the motor slow itself back down to around 1500, then run it up again to 5000rpms and back down to around 1500, i did this all the way to 4th gear numerous numerous numerous times.
i still drive the truck like a red headed stepchild, and this thing will MOVE. idk wtf is up with guys saying they're slow, this thing will GO (for a 150hp vs in a 5500lb suv)
i have an oil leak(cam seals, both of them, mainly driverside though) so i'm not 100% sure if i'm burning any oil, but if i am it is a very small amount because i never have any blue smoke or a smell of burning oil.
so i did a immediate oil change after startup, then a 500 mile oil change, then a change at 1500 miles, then another change at 3000miles, and then every 3000 miles since.
i'm now at around 12,000 or a little over, and i'm getting ready to make the switch to synthetic within the next couple of oil changes (probably Royal purple, but not certain.)
11-18-2011, 01:39 PM
#31
Registered User
Thanks for the added info. My engine is being hand delivered by the builder this Tuesday morning, I sure hope the shop can have it ready before the 4 day weekend..Can't wait! 
The site says they use "Japanese" piston rings. I'll keep you guys updated on the performance and break in.
The site says they use "Japanese" piston rings. I'll keep you guys updated on the performance and break in.
11-19-2011, 07:27 AM
#32
Registered User
As far as Zinc goes just run Shell Rotella oil. It has Zinc in it.
For break-in, im part of the crowd that believes its done quickly and you have one shot at seating the rings.
After cam break-in I find a empty road and put it in 3rd gear and continually go from full throttle (till about 3,000rpm) and then let off and coast. Repeat 30-40 times then change oil and drive as normally.
One thing I do with all new engines is install a oil separator on the PCV line. It might not be smog legal and may need to be removed for Smog Check but it keeps an incredible amount of oil and oil vapor from sludging up your intake and Throttle Body. Not to mention that it probably keep the Cat from fouling sooner also as the oil is not going to be burned and passed down stream.
For break-in, im part of the crowd that believes its done quickly and you have one shot at seating the rings.
After cam break-in I find a empty road and put it in 3rd gear and continually go from full throttle (till about 3,000rpm) and then let off and coast. Repeat 30-40 times then change oil and drive as normally.
One thing I do with all new engines is install a oil separator on the PCV line. It might not be smog legal and may need to be removed for Smog Check but it keeps an incredible amount of oil and oil vapor from sludging up your intake and Throttle Body. Not to mention that it probably keep the Cat from fouling sooner also as the oil is not going to be burned and passed down stream.
11-19-2011, 07:54 AM
#33
Registered User
As far as Zinc goes just run Shell Rotella oil. It has Zinc in it.
For break-in, im part of the crowd that believes its done quickly and you have one shot at seating the rings.
After cam break-in I find a empty road and put it in 3rd gear and continually go from full throttle (till about 3,000rpm) and then let off and coast. Repeat 30-40 times then change oil and drive as normally.
One thing I do with all new engines is install a oil separator on the PCV line. It might not be smog legal and may need to be removed for Smog Check but it keeps an incredible amount of oil and oil vapor from sludging up your intake and Throttle Body. Not to mention that it probably keep the Cat from fouling sooner also as the oil is not going to be burned and passed down stream.
For break-in, im part of the crowd that believes its done quickly and you have one shot at seating the rings.
After cam break-in I find a empty road and put it in 3rd gear and continually go from full throttle (till about 3,000rpm) and then let off and coast. Repeat 30-40 times then change oil and drive as normally.
One thing I do with all new engines is install a oil separator on the PCV line. It might not be smog legal and may need to be removed for Smog Check but it keeps an incredible amount of oil and oil vapor from sludging up your intake and Throttle Body. Not to mention that it probably keep the Cat from fouling sooner also as the oil is not going to be burned and passed down stream.
01-23-2012, 05:32 AM
#35
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broke mine last night. Castrol GTX 10W-30 w/ Lucas break in oil. drove her like i normally would after 5 minutes of getting things warm. then i let her have it. up and down hills maximizing compression 2k-4k or so for what felt close to a half hour. got back in the garage and drained the oil hot. after the engine cooled for a while i checked the torque on the head bolts, put it back together and topped her off with Valvoline VR1 20W-50 and a fresh filter. checked the timing and shut off the lights.
i got in this morning, warmed her up and took the long way to work still doing the rev changes. i can't wait until i hit about 2k miles so i can rip it up again. the engine feels tight and is running great. now i've just got to do a little adjusting and she'll be dialed in.
i got in this morning, warmed her up and took the long way to work still doing the rev changes. i can't wait until i hit about 2k miles so i can rip it up again. the engine feels tight and is running great. now i've just got to do a little adjusting and she'll be dialed in.
12-02-2013, 07:30 AM
#36
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I would be cautious about the whole zinc additive. The zinc additive was originally meant for cam in block flat tappet lifter style engines and since the 22RE never came as a flat tappet style engine I wouldn't use it. The whole reason oil doesn't have zinc in it anymore is because auto manufacturers had to replace catalytic converters before their warranty ended due to the zinc in the oil manifesting in the cat as a trail of zinc oxide. So be cautious and maybe run this stuff for 200-300 miles before going to some normal 10 or 5 w30 petrol oil. Aside from that make sure you run your cam wear in procedure as per the manufacturer specs. In the case of the mild turbo cam that I used the manufacturer specified run it from 1500 to 1800 rpms for 15 to 20 minutes. Now make sure before you ever run ANY rpms that your timing is dead on. As for distance and speed most people can agree on the be gentle for the first 5000 miles but as for me 500 miles to seat the rings (200 if you talk to my machinist who has been rebuilding his own little 20R since it was new now with 750k on it). I have talked to other mechanics that say if you keep the rpms bellow 4000 when getting up to power and bellow 3000 when cruising you'll be fine. Of coarse cruising at 3000 rpms is different per truck however mine cruises 75mph on the freeway at 3000 rpms so keeping it bellow 65 would be ideal. Thats my 2 cents on the matter and probably what Ill be doing with mine. Of coarse there are the guys who pulled a brand new nonbroken-in motor out of the box ran it 6k rpms and it somehow survived and still runs with 300k on it. Marvelous little engines they are!
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