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1990 22re brake issue

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Old 04-14-2018, 03:51 AM   #1  
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1990 22re brake issue

hello, I have a 1990 22re Toyota pickup 4x4. I have been unable to get the brakes to bleed properly in the front and the backs barely work. I have bled brakes all my life and have enlisted the help of other skillful mechanics who come up with nothing. I have already tried 3 different master cylinders and have a new caliper and new hardline to each individual brake caliper. I get steady fluid out of each bleader and I have bench bled each master cylinder multiple times with no chance in function. I am at a loss and even rented a power bleeder but still no avail, of anyone has any ideas please let me know as this could be a simple matter of something small, and itís keeping my truck off the road
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:25 AM   #2  
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I have been unable to get the brakes to bleed properly in the front
^^What EXACTLY do you mean by this?
Have you checked to make sure your rear brakes are adjusted correctly?
Have you tried disconnecting the arm from you LSPV and tying it up to the frame?
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:43 AM   #3  
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^^What EXACTLY do you mean by this?
Have you checked to make sure your rear brakes are adjusted correctly?
Have you tried disconnecting the arm from you LSPV and tying it up to the frame?
yes I have adjusted the backs about twice. I have not messed with the LSPV at all but I was under the impression that the symptoms of the LSPV would be an over abundance of front brakes and no back brakes, not vice versa, but I may be flawed in this logic. Thanks
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:55 AM   #4  
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and the backs barely work.
^^ The LSPV doesn't effect the front brakes, it just limits the brake pressure going to the rear when there is no weight in the bed of your truck. if you tie it up when bleeding you may have better luck.
you mentioned getting fluid from all the bleeders, but said you couldn't get the fronts to bleed properly, be more specific, steady fluid coming from the bleeders IS proper bleeding, so... what do you mean?
you also mentioned new calipers and hardlines, what about the flexible hoses?
did you check the pushrod length from the booster to the master cylinder?
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:15 AM   #5  
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^^ The LSPV doesn't effect the front brakes, it just limits the brake pressure going to the rear when there is no weight in the bed of your truck. if you tie it up when bleeding you may have better luck.
you mentioned getting fluid from all the bleeders, but said you couldn't get the fronts to bleed properly, be more specific, steady fluid coming from the bleeders IS proper bleeding, so... what do you mean?
you also mentioned new calipers and hardlines, what about the flexible hoses?
did you check the pushrod length from the booster to the master cylinder?
1. I am getting strong pressure of fluid from both front bleeders. No air no bubbles
2. The main issue is the front not having an action at all by a depressed pedal.
3. I have watched all the flexible lines and donít see any signs of leaks or bubbling the line.
4. Thanks for the LSPV info I will definetly look at that concerning the weak rear pressure and function, but my concern is more with the front that has me stumped.
thanks, Jaret
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:39 AM   #6  
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1. I am getting strong pressure of fluid from both front bleeders. No air no bubbles
2. The main issue is the front not having an action at all by a depressed pedal.
3. I have watched all the flexible lines and donít see any signs of leaks or bubbling the line.
4. Thanks for the LSPV info I will definetly look at that concerning the weak rear pressure and function, but my concern is more with the front that has me stumped.
thanks, Jaret
There are problems that can occur with flexible brake lines that are not apparent with a visual inspection, but with those issues there would either be no fluid passing through, or it would be working like a check valve (not releasing). If you jack up the front end and have a helper press the brakes can you rotate the tires?
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:20 AM   #7  
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There are problems that can occur with flexible brake lines that are not apparent with a visual inspection, but with those issues there would either be no fluid passing through, or it would be working like a check valve (not releasing). If you jack up the front end and have a helper press the brakes can you rotate the tires?
not by hand but with a prybar I can move them
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Old 04-14-2018, 02:56 PM   #8  
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The main issue is the front not having an action at all by a depressed pedal.
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not by hand but with a prybar I can move them
So, there is an action. what about with the engine running (the brake booster helping). And what about driving around the block? Do you have to really press hard on the pedal to stop, like the booster isn't working?
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Old 04-14-2018, 02:59 PM   #9  
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So, there is an action. what about with the engine running (the brake booster helping). And what about driving around the block? Do you have to really press hard on the pedal to stop, like the booster isn't working?
it almost acts over assisted but not enough to stop the truck
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Old 04-14-2018, 04:14 PM   #10  
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it almost acts over assisted but not enough to stop the truck
what daheck does that mean? pedal goes to the floor?
why don't we start at square one. loosen your parking brake cable (make sure the cables are not hanging up), adjust the rear shoes with the star wheel adjusters until there is a slight drag and then loosen the adjusters until you can spin the brake drum easily. then adjust your parking brake until it holds tight with about 8 clicks on the handle. tie the LSPV up to the frame and bleed the rears then the front then reconnect the LSPV and give it a try.
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:01 PM   #11  
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There might also be a bleeder screw on the LSPV. If there is, you should see if air is trapped in the LSPV mechanism.

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Old 04-14-2018, 05:13 PM   #12  
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... unable to get the brakes to bleed properly in the front ...
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... 2. The main issue is the front not having an action at all by a depressed pedal. ...
The usual symptom of a bleeding problem is "spongy" brakes, not "no" brakes.

You could have a blocked line somewhere (it's happened to me when the liner of a flexible line came loose). Or maybe a caliper pin bent so far the pads can't get together. You might try prying the front pads apart about 2mm (so they are loose), then watch them as someone gently squeezes the brake pedal. They should smoothly come together and grip the rotor.
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:23 PM   #13  
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Ok thanks for the advice eveyone I will try these things and get back to you,
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:44 PM   #14  
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Come to think of it, I don't think we are getting the full story.

Why were you bleeding the brakes in the first place?

Were there any braking issues prior to bleeding?

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Old 04-14-2018, 06:05 PM   #15  
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Come to think of it, I don't think we are getting the full story.

Why were you bleeding the brakes in the first place?

Were there any braking issues prior to bleeding?

truck didnít have any brakes from the get go. Had two frozen calipers on the front, so I had to replace them
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:26 PM   #16  
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You didn't put new pads on badly grooved rotors did you?
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Old 04-15-2018, 04:46 AM   #17  
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You didn't put new pads on badly grooved rotors did you?
no I just put on some old pads I had to bleed the brakes
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Old 04-15-2018, 05:35 AM   #18  
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truck didn’t have any brakes from the get go. Had two frozen calipers on the front, so I had to replace them
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no I just put on some old pads I had to bleed the brakes
Hmmm. No brakes at all in the front. Replaced the calipers, but re-used the pads and all the other brake parts. Still no front brakes. At least I don't have a spongy pedal. Ah ha! Must be a bleeding issue!!

To me, it sounds like whatever was keeping the pads from squeezing the rotors is still there. Jack it up, pull the wheels, carefully pry the pads apart, and WATCH them when someone lightly presses the brake pedal. (You can do this with engine off; you won't need the booster.) I'll bet the pads aren't moving at all. They might not even be the right pads for these brakes.

Last edited by scope103; 04-15-2018 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 04-15-2018, 06:13 AM   #19  
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Hmmm. No brakes at all in the front. Replaced the calipers, but re-used the pads and all the other brake parts. Still no front brakes. At least I don't have a spongy pedal. Ah ha! Must be a bleeding issue!!

To me, it sounds like whatever was keeping the pads from squeezing the rotors is still there. Jack it up, pull the wheels, carefully pry the pads apart, and WATCH them when someone lightly presses the brake pedal. (You can do this with engine off; you won't need the booster.) I'll bet the pads aren't moving at all. They might not even be the right pads for these brakes.
1. The lads are the correct ones as I purchased a new set I intended to throw on once I got new rotors and they are identical.
2. I have watched both calipers and can see the pad contacting the rotor after several pumps. The issue I run into is almost like if you had an imaginary hand was pushing the brake pads against the rotor. It doesnít make enough force to even start to grab just a little bit. Itís extremely hard to explain as I have never ran into even a remotely similar issue. And I see that the pads have enough room to slide and such.
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Old 04-15-2018, 06:21 AM   #20  
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no I just put on some old pads I had to bleed the brakes
Brake pads are designed to have a flat pad surface contacting a flat rotor surface, if you put old pads on old rotors and the grooves don't match (even those not visible to the naked eye) you will not get very good braking power until they wear into each other. Maybe this is part of your problem, you may have only part of the pad contacting the rotor. this is why it is always best to resurface or replace the brake rotors and use new pads (even then there will be some break in before you get the full braking power). Don't do a brake job half way... safety first.
Have you driven this or is all of this testing going on in your driveway?
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