Gotcha, Chef.....

Yeah, that's true, Alan. There's different reasons that could happen. The evap was just the first thing that came to mind. I thought about it afterwards and remembered, oh yeah!, it was running real rich. Somehow I missed the part about injectors bleeding off, though. You're thread's six pages now. I have a good excuse...hahaha!

 

Answering the question in red. I don't have many choices around here for parts. Ebay is a good source for people that live out in the sticks. LOL I saw the link to ebay you posted. Thanks

Congrats on getting you internet back. How does it feel to go back to the stone age? haha I don't foresee a problem of any fitment issues on the vac rail. The hardest thing right now is finding the time to do it. LOL
I agree, behind the motor mount is a bad spot for a sensor.

Thanks for the offer Mark on fishing for a rail for an 86. I will keep that in mind.

I will probably take the plenum off for several reasons. It would be a lot easier and I could tiddy things up a bit. I also want to recheck the TPS and take the IACV off and see if I can clean it up some. My money tree has almost died. LOL

I can have the plenum off quicker than just trying to get to one of the bolts that hold the vac rail on.

Thanks for looking at how the VSV should be hooked up. I'm gonna keep an eye on the oil. I feel pretty confident the problem with gas in the oil is fixed. Yes, you did link to the evap PDF. I printed it and read it, but need to read it again.


Six pages is hard to keep up with on a problem like this. I appreciate y'all sticking with me on this journey. It's almost over and I hope between this thread and Mark's it will help someone else with the same issues. Anytime y'all are in GA drop me a line and I will buy you a beer or 2. LOL. Disclaimer, I don't drink, but that doesn't bother me.

The problem that still exist is engine is slow to start and idle is slow to come up (cold). I suspect IACV. I checked the cold start a couple weeks ago, but have not check the signal to it.

Things I still want to check
1. cold start signal from computer
2. IACV-clean and check
3. VSV to FPR-check operation
4. Valve adjustment
5. Solder igniter leads
6. TPS-check again

Here is where my temp gauge runs. It seems low, but I did replace the thermostat when all of this started.

 

That does look rather low. Is your coolant level tip top? Other than that, given the thermostat's new, maybe a bad sending unit. Cleaning it up might help, if that's the problem.

You might try pulling the AAV hose from the throttle body and see how it starts and idles cold. This might help determine if the cold start system is having trouble. If you think it's the cold start timing switch at that point, you can run a grounding wire from the ground side of the timing switch connector to the battery ground. All that switch needs is a ground to energize the injector.

 

The odd thing is that my pickup would run that low in the summer. When I'd slid the heater over for the cab heater then the truck would run a bit warmer.

 

Plugged up or bad heater core? I'm asking, cuz my heater/ac knob is stuck, due to something falling in the vents top of the dash, GRRR! lol. Anyway, I have to go to the engine bay and push the rod in or out for heat. And, even then, my heater doesn't seem to ever get really too hot in the cab. Sorry for the highjack, I'll get to that later on my thread, hahaha.

 

The cab gets smoking hot!!! Just the further I move the slider to hot the warmer the engine gets...Never gets up to half way though.

 

Coolant level is great and even has fresh coolant. I'll pull the sensor when I pull the AAV.

I pulled the hose off the throttle body from the AAV this am and it wouldn't start. Should I have blocked the port on the TB? I had a rich smell briefly from the exhaust. I turned it over for about 5-8 seconds and it didn't fire.

Is The ground wire trick on the timing switch permanent type of fix or just a test? Those switches aren't cheap either.

Can I ground the temp sensor lead or is that a bad idea to check to see how far the guage moves?

 

Good grief, Alan. I'm terribly sorry. What I should've suggested was pulling the vacuum hoses from either side of the AAV and connect them together. A couple of years ago, I ran some testing experiments on my '86, true to backyard mechanic style, and that was one of them, trying determine if my AAV was open when cold. What I had you do was create a big vacuum leak!!! Lol......mammoth proportion vacuum leak at the throttle body and plenum. Again....sorry. I guess you'll figure out if yours open when you pull it.

Don't know about grounding the temp sensor lead. To be honest, I'm not positive how that thing exactly works. The ground wire trick I'm only suggesting for testing the timing switch. If that sucker's bad, you can run the ground wire to permanently bypass it, though. I'd done that for a long time. I ran a wire from the ground terminal at the connector, back through the firewall into the cab, hooked it to a toggle switch, and then ran the wire back to the battery. I ran the entire length of the wire around the engine compartment along with the wiring I'd used to run a couple of new rocker switches to operate my rear window.....since the circuit board that normally operated died. I tried repairing that, but I wasn't too good with soldering then. FUBAR!!!

 

Hey Thook, Alan, ....I just got that IACV thing w/the mammoth vac-leak thing. I'd read back before, but it didn't hit me.

I'm not sure on the grounding out the CSI time switch or otherwise...Thook has done that and can advise you on such things, lol.

However, I looked at maybe 10 IACV's while at that yard or through pics on line from sellers.....and NONE of them were even close to as opened as my OEM one when cold. Problem with that, Alan, is that even if it looks slightly opened(like mine did), it might not be opened enough to effect the operation it's supposed to. Mine was "cracked open" slightly, but only about half of what the new one was. Thus, when starting cold, it would QUICKLY begin to close(I think due to the bi-metalic arm being worn out) and have no affect on cold idle. In fact, mine was running a lil chunky until the Throttle Body system could take over. Replaced the IACV and voila, it's idled up to 1100rpm every morning since.(I've just been testing it, not really driving much till I can find the time to do some repairs-adjustments-checks).

 

PS> My IACV pretty much passed the 'Pinch Test' at cold and then warmed up....but it wasn't opened ENOUGH, so it was confusing the system, I believe, and causing it to "choke out". Plus, mine was ON IT'S WAY out.....even before my build. So, as I kept checking it, to rule it out, it was responding less and less to the pinch test. Cleaning it is a good idea, sure....blow out that thing with TB cleaner and a can of air, well.....but if that Arm that operates the spring-valve inside is warn out.....it will NOT work like it's supposed to, even when CLEAN ENOUGH TO EAT OFF, ..just like mine was.

 

Yeah, that's why I was suggesting to him to run the test I did. If it wasn't opening enough, pulling the vac hoses off and connecting them should, in effect, be the same as having the AAV opened all the way at a cold idle. I suppose the pinch test is easier, though......

 

Hey Thook,

Yeah, well, I think it's just because they're so precisely set at the Factory, to where they only open about 1/4th of the way at average summer temps. Still, that's a decent hole for it to work with....but all the way, I'd think that could be just too much vacuum addition.

Hahaha, ...when I first went to do that pinch test, my hose in front was original, so I heard it 'snap-cracle-pop' in there(it wouldn't depress AT ALLLLL, LOL), and had to replace it....... I believe it was 38$ at 20% off! lol. Worth it to have that specifically bent hose though....some of them just can't be 'made', ya know?

PS> A LONG time Toy mechanic who was around when these were new, told me, "Those things, unfortunately, are a poor design. They last more than most other makes of cars do, ...but Toyota could have done better. The Bi-metalic vavle that pushes the arm, depending on temp, ....they just begin to get play in them, so they APPEAR to be opening and closing properly, ...but actually, when they're under any load, vacuum or coolant pressure/temp(which actually is what pushes the arm)....they're DONE, period." That kinda verified what I'd figured out on my own(I was guessing, ..hehehe, he was speaking from experience). And, he was saying how this part of the system was VERY important to the longevity of the motor. They NEED that extra air/fuel when cold and the idle up helps them get up to temp a lil faster....and "they DO run better at a lil warmer temps!...Thus the 180 Thermostats", ..he said.

G'day, guys!

 

I was just thinking in terms of when the motor's cold. But, it's not winter anymore, is it? So, yeah......you're probably right....lol.

Sometimes if you poke around the back of the auto parts store, if they'll let you, you can find a hose that'll work that was originally made for something else. I have an '89 Peugeot 505 that I needed a lower rad hose for. Try finding parts for one of them!! Anyway, the guys here at O'Reilly let me dig around until I found that one would fit........mostly. I had to trim some of the length off, but the bends were close enough to call it good.

I suspect the AAV on my '86 is getting to that worn out point. It's not the original. The original burned out/corroded at the terminals a long time ago. But, I replaced it with a used one I got from a friend of mine. It works pretty good for now. Initial idle is a little low, but not enough to be a prob. I just fire it up, hit the throttle a tad, and get going.

 

I hear ya, Thook. I did that O'reily's hunt in the back on one of my water hoses...but the vacuum ones I figured it wasn't too much to have those 3 bend jobbers, lol. I did both oem on the valve cover ones, too.....got a really cheap price from my buddy at Toyota. He can't always do that, but if for SOME FREAKISH REASON IT'S IN STOCK(I know, right? HARDLY EVER have parts I need in stock, lol), then he can do me a deal.

Anyway, wishing you the best, guys,

Mark

 

Posting the results of another test. I checked the ohms on the thermal time switch.

Between the terminals should be 20-40 below 86* and 40-60 above 104* my reading was 80.5 on a fairly cooled down engine. Even if it was above 104* it's still out of range.

The test also had a step to measure between STA (B+) terminal to ground. It was hard to tell which color wire was which in the terminal. The range should be 20-80. I tested the green (I think) to ground and it read 160.9 ohms and the other wire (black I think) measured 81.1 ohms.

I tried to check voltage at the connectors for both the CSI and thermal switch. I had nothing with the key on (not running). Does the engine have to be started (cold) to send voltage out or to get the sequence started? I checked alldata and couldn't find testing the cold start. I read it somewhere and didn't print it out.

Edit: I went ahead and started it and then checked voltage to the CSI and thermal time switch. There wasn't any voltage on any wire. What is the route the voltage takes to get to the CSI. Does it go thru the AAV first? I don't have a clue.

I also check the 89 thermal switch ohms and it was almost exactly the same as the 86. It starts good. I also checked the ohms on the CSI and both the 86 and 89 measure 3.8.

I know the AAV is probably most of the problem, I just want to do more checks. Checking stuff is free (usually) LOL

 

I'll reread up on this, Alan. I thought the COR(Circuit Open Relay) blocked voltage to the CSI and others before the Ignition turns over, to verify spark before ignition attempt. I know they have a fuel cut system but not sure if that comes on if there's no spark....I KNOW it does if you're braking and are over 1000 Idle, in order to prevent a surge of fuel when you're trying to stop. I would think the CSI is similar to the other Injectors, in that, when I tried to run a noid light test on the wires to be sure they were getting juice to the injectors....they WOULD NOT LIGHT until the motor was turning over.

Sorry, just thinking out loud...I'll read up when I have a break and try to help you with an answer if I can. I'm not sure if the AAV was bad whether or not it would cut power to the CSI....I don't remember reading that. My AAV was heading way south and yet, ....my truck still turned over after a second with the starter engaged. I'm not positive, but I would think that a Noid light kit would work on the CSI as well. However, usually you just have someone turn it over and start it(COLD-COLD) with your ear to the CSI, ...if it's clicking away, ....it's getting juice, period.

 

Just a quick comment, then I have to get ready for work. Once there, I can reply more...

The CSI and timing switch doesn't energize unless the key is at the STA circuit position. IOW, when the key is turned all the over to fire the engine. With the key simply on, at the IG circuit position, you won't get a voltage reading. So, Chef is right on with that. Yay Chef! Fuel cut is a different animal, as Chef suspects. The AAV being bad won't affect voltage getting to the CSI, though. As well, if you were to pull the CSI from the plenum, crank over the motor, and check for fuel spray, you'll know if the CSI system is working. Obviously, because of the vac leak at the plenum, it won't start......but, then then that's not the goal here. Pull the coil wire before you do this so no sparky.

Okay...more later.

 

YAY! lol.

Alan, Thook will clarify/verify/object to this; Not sure, but when you crack the bolts to the plenum, holding in the CSI, I don't remember the Hard Fuel Line to the CSI being very forgiving. So BE CAREFUL not to bend that line!


Here are the instructions for testing the CSI;(do in VERY WELL VENTILATED AREA!)

1. Disconnect the ground from the battery and coil wire from dizzy(ground wire to block)
2. Disconnect wiring harness connector from CSI
3. Remove the two mounting bolts of CSI to plenum
4. Carefully slide the CSI out of the Plenum and place jet-end into small glass container(I put paper towel in jar to prevent splatter)
5. Place rag under area where testing(under jar and surrounding)*I also shielded my battery with a large plastic sheet to prevent spark-to-vapor/loose spray*
6. Reconnect Ground and Connector
7. Have someone turn over motor while you watch for flow into jar(you can do it yourself like I did, but it's easier to have help, I'd bet)

If it's NOT firing fuel, hook your multi-meter to the connector and set on 2v, then turn over the motor and check for voltage. IF NONE, ....then I believe you'd be looking at either a wiring or ECU issue....(THOOK?) You could also use a Noid Light, I believe, on the CSI(You can borrow them from Kragen, etc.) and I believe I used the FORD or Bosch noid to test my injector connectors...It's in my build thread, sorry, no time to check back. HOWEVER< I'm not sure if it may also be a CSI time switch at that point. I can't remember if the CSI WILL NOT work without a working Time Switch.... I'm sure Thook or someone else can tell you.

If IT DOES fire fuel, watch carefully when you kill it, look for 'running on', to see if the CSI is leaking past the inner seals/filter. (another reason you want a helper to turn it over and kill it at your instruction)

The other test is to fully warm up the vehicle and retest the CSI...it should NOT be firing fuel when in closed loop. If it is, I would imagine it's the CSI time switch that's faulty(not reading coolant temp properly- or - improper resistance from being worn out)

Wait for thook or someone else to verify EVERYTHING I've said, ok? lol

 

Thanks guys for the info.

I bypassed the AAV by connecting the 2 air hoses. It took about 5 seconds to fire, but once it did it idled up to 2000rpm right away.

I don't have a 2 volt setting on my meter, but I did set it on 200mv and I got a 2 on the meter. I don't know if that is 2 volts or 2 mv. I still have to pull the CSI out and do that check. I checked the CSI a few weeks ago with jumper wires and it did what it was supposed to do. If y'all say the 2 on the meter is good then I don't think I need to go any further with the CSI.

One other thing I have noticed is while driving down the road with the back window open I can smell the exhaust. I can't tell if it's a rich smell or a hint of oil smell. I know roll up the window. LOL I like rolling down the road with all windows down. Especially without having AC. It doesn't smoke at all. When I get out my clothes are permeated with exhaust smell. It runs really well and idles well at 750-800 rpm. Just thought I would throw that info out there as well. Could the AAV affect the exhaust smell also. I know that may be a crazy question, but I'm thinking out loud again. I'm thinking it might.

 

I would only think the AAV would have an influence if it was 'stuck open just barely'. What I mean is, it's not open enough to bring up the idle, but it's open just enough to effect things when it's warmed up, due to 'not closing, either'.

Also, you said, I'd thought, that the CSI Time switch readings SUCKED, lol. I mention this because, well, if you're CSI is working, GREAT.....but does it STOP working at the right time. Thus, I mentioned checking it when fully warm and in open loop(you could also do a REALLY good listen test to see if the CSI is still firing when fully warmed up motor is verifiable. If it's just continuing to run on and on, ...well, that would create a rich condition, right?

I think, Alan, from what I'm experiencing, as well as others, there are MANY things that can go wrong that JUST WONT show an obvious sign. However, it seems like yours is coming along nicely...just a couple quirks.

If I think of anything else, I'll chime in. Any codes?(out of curiosity)