I've got the FSM. I can go to the starting system, but it is pretty vague. Shows me how to test to the starter, but I have come across another setback. I believe I have installed my clutch plate backwards and must pull the tranny. I'm hoping i can do this quickly, but I have never done it before and am going to fab up a make shift tranny "seat" for my jack. It also appears that I'm leaking oil from somewhere back there as well. Not sure where b/c the main seal should be new from the PO, but I'm gonna have to take a look anyways b/c there is quite a large pool of oil on the ground from there. I'm pullin the tranny now. Just have to unhook the tranny/engine bolts and remove the cross member that it sits on and it should be floating.

I will be back to revisit this issue very soon though.

 

Jesus guys..
Yes, there is a wire that runs from the battery directly to the starter..
He probably doesn't have it hooked on.

 

IT CAN'T BE THAT SIMPLE?!?!?

 

Ahhhhh, so the new motor is from the PO? that might explain some things, Soccer... Maybe, he just didn't give a flip? Maybe he did, I can't know who he/she is to you.... But one thing I would ask is "Did the rear main seal go in properly? Also, check the consistency against some tranny gear oil, making sure it's not the trans-seal leaking. I thought I had an oil leak, after all the work I did, and it actually is the trans seal leaking.

Far as the clutch, good thing you didn't get it started and try to GRRRRRRRRIND it into gear, eh? Actually, I would think the clutch wouldn't even engage. Be sure when you put it back you do the flywheel bolts to 80# per FSM, and do it in a pattern like it recommends. ESPECIALLY if you didn't put it on yourself. Also, be sure to lube the fork arm ends, and all the other goodies it suggests to lube, BUT conservatively...not with GOBS of it in there.

When you're done with the clutch, JUMP THE STARTER, first thing, to test for actuation, then we can go from there, ok? Need to pinpoint what's going wrong with the starting system, one at a time.

PS> Be patient lining up the trans and motor when the time comes... DO NOT force it, Soccer... and I hope you still have your clutch alignment tool... do ya? If not, pick one up at kragen or whatever for a couple bucks....YOU'LL NEED IT.

 

Thanks for the info. I was the one that installed it all, so I'm not too worried about the stuff I've installed (expect the clutch disc). I torqued them all the proper way, lubed all the stuff that needed lubed and all that good stuff. I didn't change the rear main b/c i would have assumed it was done 10k ago or so. Who knows, maybe the entire engine is trashed, but I have heard it run and drive so it should be fine. It's freshly rebuilt and I can tell this from what it looks like inside. I cleaned everything up before putting it back together, so I should be able to easily tell where the oil is coming from.

I don't think it is the tranny b/c I've never had low tranny oil, but I'll be sure to eliminate that. I'll replace the pilot bearing on the engine side, but all the stuff on the tranny side is new (throwout bearing etc... not the tranny oil seal though).

I put the engine in as well, so I have the tools and stuff. That means the alignment tool as well. Luckily, I have one engine tranny/mate under my belt. Now for another.

I've got photos of everything I think (besides the clutch disc installed, grr). I probably would have ruined some things if I would have started it, assuming it is installed incorrectly. Anyways, I will give the starter a test as soon as I get that tranny mounted back up. Thanks for all the help.

Yes, the wire from the battery is connected.

 

Shouldn't that plug into your igniter (on your coil)?

 

Incredibly large picture incoming.


You're welcome.

Looks like theres a wire that runs DIRECTLY FROM THE POSITIVE BATTERY TERMINAL TO THE STARTER.
The starter then grounds out on the block.
There is a black wire that runs to your iginition switch...
Ignore all the EFI stuff, you don't have it.
And ignore the stuff for the neutral safety switch (unless you do have it, and which case it's probably malfunctioning)

 

I found a couple questionable things on the truck tonight, as far as wiring goes, so I tested it out a few more times and still didn't get anything. I will be testing the starter tomorrow evening (monday evening). I'm thinking more and more that it is the starter b/c everything else has checked out so far. The grounding system seems to be good as well. I will post up any results I get.

 

I posted the method to test the starter, Soccer, ....I think. All you have to do it put power to it like I laid out, and if 'NO CLICKY', no good. It's good you're getting familiar with all the goodies in there and how it works, how it's grounded(I would also test the grounds with a multi-meter... make sure you're getting ZERO or VERY close). But first, just test the starter? You could have taken it out in 5 minutes and drove it by a auto parts store, on your way to work or something and have it tested. Wanna be sure it IS OR ISN'T the starter? Start there, lol.

 

That is true. I have a thing about doing everything myself, so I will test the starter as the manual states. I kinda have a hunch that it is, but I could be wrong. I over looked every wire in the engine bay and they all are hooked up or there is no matching end for them. The essentials are there and I think once the starter goes, I'm gonna hear the motor fire up with a few cranks to get fuel back to the carb. I have to work today, so I will be able to test it this evening.

If I think it's faulty I'll prob take it to the parts store and have them double check it. I'll post up tonight on the findings.

 

^^^

Also; Can't remember if this is a new motor... but if so, DO NOT forget to do the precise break in procedure, ok? You're not turning it over, so, if it is new, you wouldn't have to worry about the cam lube running off etc..... But you'd want to prime the oil pressure up, and so on, first, before firing it over the first time.(then 20 minutes at 2200-2500 rpm... Turn off, adjust new valves..... Fire up and drive for 500 miles, etc., etc. IF new cam is in there... they also have specific break in procedures like "Start at 2200rpm for 10 seconds, then 800rpm for 10 seconds, then 2200rpm"..... etc., however it's suggested)

If it's not a new/rebuilt... nevermind! lol.

 

It was rebuilt by the previous owner and has about 10k on it. I heard it run and it sounded good and I took the head off and replaced the oil pan and nothing looked strange and all parts are nice and shiny, so I'm hoping that I should be good to go. I haven't done anything to it mechanically since I've had it, so I shouldn't have to worry about it. Thanks for the input.

I wasn't aware of all that for a break in period. I knew you needed to break it in, but it's good to know it's more elaborate than driving it nicely for xxx amount of miles. I'm sure I'll take that info with me down the road when I do build a motor, whatever it may be for.

 

little update....

Not a whole lot has happened. I got the starter pulled off again and took a look at the manual for testing it and decided that since I didn't have any convenient wires for testing it that I'll run it by napa tomorrow b/c I will already be that way. I'll probably pickup some alligator clamps and wire for stuff just like this. Would have been perfect for this job. i should have a conclusion tomorrow for the starter.

I do have a question about testing the electrical system. If I test for continuity on the neg side of the battery I should get that if I pretty much touch anywhere in the engine bay (as long as it's bare metal) or the engine correct?

What about the positive side? It seems that When I do the same test I get continuity for the positive side when touching anything in the engine bay or on the engine. For some reason that just doesn't seem correct and may explain why the starter isn't working properly.

Can someone shed some light on that? May help eliminate or narrow down problems or trouble shooting steps.

 

Another update:

I had the starter tested by NAPA and all checked out perfectly. So it is either the grounding system that is messed up (cable from pos. bat. terminal to starter is good and not bridged with anything else).

I would think that if it were the grounding system that none of the lights and stuff would work in the cab. Everything works, even the radio and clock. Is there a way I can further test this out.

The other direction is to find if the other wire providing the "signal" to the starter is doing its job. I'll take a look at the wiring diagrams provided and in the FSM, but if anyone has advice on this as well then it would help a TON. Thanks all.

 

Hey Soccer,

I'm not a real electrical guy... in fact, HARDLY! lol. I'm learning, but from what I THINK I understand...the lighting and such you're talking about is working through Chassis Grounds, not engine grounds, like the starter.

Far as the "actuation" portion.... there are a couple things that can do that, and one for sure is the starter relay. I think the COR or Circuit Open Relay is only to 'cut' the fuel pump off, and doesn't stop the starter from cranking.

Did you look at the basic wiring diagram of the starter in that post a few back? Nothing looks off in your set up compared to that?


Maybe you have an issue with the wiring from the harness that comes to the starter? Or, maybe, your neutral safety wiring in the harness was never reconnected on the trans??????? One of those long wires goes to the reverse light and one to the Neutral switch, I believe. I'ma try to get you a video of what I'm talking about, so we can maybe put this to bed, eh?

 

Hello? lol.

 

There are two wires that come down in a flex loom(should, could be separate) to the transmission area. One heads back on the passenger side to the reverse light...


The other one, travels under to the transmission/driver side behind the bell housing... I THINK that's your neutral safety wire and I believe 4wd indicator(not sure if it's both)...

 

first step check your battery...

second step check all your connetions and grounds

step 3 use a set up jummeper cables from neg on battery to ground some when ere on engine block..

on the postive side of battery hook up jumper cable and clamp on to the main postive starter lug bolt on the starter..

maybe you are not get the flow throw thos old wires...

i always suggest you up grade to thicker battery cables..

make sure you are getting 12 volts from your soleniod wire to your starter when you turn your key switch to start... this will require 2 people.. one person to ly under the truck to put a ground ofthe multi meter and put the post wire of the mulitmeter in the starter solenoid wire connector and tell your buddy to turn the key to start...

push in clutch just incase..


if this does not work

run a peice of wire straight from you battery to the postive hook up on the sarter and the starter should engage... i recomend that you hook up the wire to the starter and then just tap the wire over the battery postive terminal ... or you can waste money on push button switch.. but there is no need unless you are lazy about fixing the real problem...

 

Looks like the starter relay connector. I had to change it on my '87 22re.
Some relays have 2 connectors, others have only 1. Square-ish little box attached to the pass-side of the engine bay

 

Lots of posts. I'm going to try and answer all the questions here.

The trans connectors were reconnected. There were two connectors and the spedo cable. All have been connected again. This issue was before the tranny was every touched, so that shouldn't be the issue.

The diagram and the way it is setup seems to be correct. I have a cable directly from the bat to the starter. There is one other wire that goes to the starter. It is a little single wire plug. The only other thing associated with the starter is the fact that it is bolted to the tranny (guessing it is grounded that way) and it definitely was bolted when I tried to start it.

The battery is brand new from napa and running everything just fine. That's not the issue.

All connections seem to be good. There is a ground from the body to the bat. Body to the engine mount. Back of engine bay to the head. From wiring harness to the intake. From DS harness to the motor mount over there. If anything seems amiss please let me know. I can easily get photos of the grounds I have setup.

I'm thinking this is what I'm going to shoot for next:

make sure you are getting 12 volts from your soleniod wire to your starter when you turn your key switch to start... this will require 2 people.. one person to ly under the truck to put a ground ofthe multi meter and put the post wire of the mulitmeter in the starter solenoid wire connector and tell your buddy to turn the key to start...

push in clutch just incase..


if this does not work

run a peice of wire straight from you battery to the postive hook up on the sarter and the starter should engage... i recomend that you hook up the wire to the starter and then just tap the wire over the battery postive terminal ... or you can waste money on push button switch.. but there is no need unless you are lazy about fixing the real problem...



That should definitely tell me if the relay is working. If it is then it is obviously a ground problem. There is continuity between both sides of the pos. terminal cable that goes from the bat to the starter. I will give this a shot tonight or tomorrow and post back. Hopefully this issue will be resolved pretty soon. Thanks for all the help guys, definitely is helping out a TON.