Does anyone have a good pic of what I should be looking for when looking for broken guides?

 

The baby went to sleep and I had a chance to go out to the garage for a bit. It's funny that it feels so good to find a problem cuz now you know what it is. I think. The drivers side guide should extend up as far as the passenger right? It doesn't. It also seems pretty loose and doesn't really look complete. There also seems to be the tell-tale rash or bare metal where the chain is probably hitting. Doesn't look bad though. Anyways, I think a timing chain replacement is in order. I have never done one before so I am going to study some writeups on it. Anyone in the quad cities area want to help?

I have a heated garage

 

Is there anyone on yotatech in the qc? There is a lot of jeeps around here just like everywhere. I see one guy driving around a white 1st gen 4runner and we wave at each other all the time but we have never met. LOL

 

Here’s a good write up on replacing the timing chain.

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...ingChain.shtml

Get your timing chain and related parts from engnblder. He has excellent quality parts and customer service.

http://www.engnbldr.com/toyota_ala_carte.htm

 

You know what..

Don't do what 4crawler says on that write up. I have a lot of respect for the write up, and his knowledge... but screw that.. don't try to half ass the TC job because you're gonna hate yourself for it later. what I'm getting at is..

PULL THE HEAD. It will make the job more complex, but you'll get it done right the first time.

I say this because I did the TC on the advice of other websites who claim you don't need to pull the head, and when it went back together... guess what was leaking oil from the front of the timing chain cover? The head gasket!

Do the job right, if you're gonna do it. Pull the head off, its not hard.

Oh yeah, and mark all of the vacuum hoses in a very clear way and count how many you remove.
Take pictures and notes.
Use a piece of cardboard with a drawing of the timing chain cover, with the water pump and oil pump to hold all of the TC cover bolts. Each one is a different length and things can go awry.

Also be careful of the chain tensioner. If you torque it too much, it can cause it to malfunction. I think it's at 12 or 9 foot pounds.


I don't know if they made the fuel injected models before 85 but if they did, be sure of your engine's year too.

My 84 has an 85 engine in it which caused me a week delay in getting my timing chain done.

I don't think Engnbldr has steel driver side guides for the older model engines, but he does for the newer ones.

Don't try priming the oil pump with oil. It just gets retarded. Its a lot easier to pack it with Vaseline, which doesn't flow out of the gears when you go to put it on.

The easiest way to tell the year of your engine is:
There is a laser block below the exhaust, near the center of the engine block. It looks like a bow tie. Its where coolant lines for turbo engines connect. If you have that laser block, you have an 85+ engine, if you dont, then it's 84 or older.

Don't let your timing get off any. Mark where everything went, like the crank, camshaft, and all related sprockets and parts. The engine is an interference style engine, so if the valves happen to be opening or shutting too early because the sprockets got out of alignment, then you'll bend valves, or worse. Then you'll really be pissed off.

I can't stress it enough.. PULL OFF THE CYLINDER HEAD.

Oh, and get all your parts from Engnbldr. He is number one in my book. The man is a genius. You can order a timing chain kit, and a head gasket kit from him. This comes with all of the gasketry, seals, and any little extra parts you need.

 

Well the top half of the drivers side timing chain guide is gone and there is a rash where the chain is slapping. I definitly need to do a timing chain. I think I will go with engbldr. I have a few noob questions to help get me off on the right foot. Sorry if I sounds like I don't know what I am doing but I'm trying to learn.

The truck seems very sluggish and doesn't have much power. I know its a 4banger but it used to be able to take of from a stop without stomping on the gas. It also starts and shuts off funny, like it's tripping over itself. I think my timing is off and my idle seems a little high. I would like to try and set the timing a little closer before I tear it apart so it's closer when I get done. I don't have a tach but I should be able to get the idle pretty close. Its just the large flathead screw on the throttle body right?

As far as the timing. I have searched and read alot on setting the timing. I understand the theory but does anyone have any good pics of exaclty what I should be doing? Do I absolutely need a timing light? I don't have any other of those fancy electronic devices but how can I do a rough timing set?

BTW me finding yotatech is the best thing that ever happend to my yota except when I found it rusting away, neglected, full of junk, dustier than the moon, sitting on jackstands, behind some brush, waiting for me

 

Ok. I downloaded the FSM. It answered most of my questions but one. Where exactly are the terminals that I need to jump? Anyone got pics?

 

Go here: http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...CheckConnector

Picture A and it's the connector on the left (smaller one). I just set my timing this morning and it worked like a charm.

 

Is there any way to do it without a timing light or should I track one down? I see some that are crazy expensive and others are kinda cheap. Any difference?

OK. Did some more reading and I think whats happening is that I have a loud tap from the timing chain and my knock sensor is retarding the timing so thats why my truck is seeming sluggish. Sound probable? I'm going to change the timing set ASAP and it should correct itself if that is the case. I am looking at timing lights on Ebay so I can do the job right and get some good power and MPG.

 

While you're at it, pull the block too. j/k I would definately not cut corners if you do this and pull the head like mr. willie says. I believe the service manual says to remove the head. I outlined the timing chain guides in red. Typically the left side *driver side* is what fails causing the chain to rattle against timing housing cover eventually grinding a hole into the water jacket. I also included a pic of the overhead cam which is the rod going through the middle. When the crankshaft turns, it turns the timing gear at the top which turns the cam which moves the rocker arms to open/close valves.

You're going to want to remove the oil pan to remove the broken pieces of the timing guide.

You probably skipped a a tooth with the guide broken which would cause the engine to run sluggish. If you want to know if that happened, you can check by just removing the valve cover. Rotate the crankshaft so the knotch on the pulley is at 12 o'clock & lined up to the 0 degree mark of the timing cover. The #1 piston will be at top dead center on either the compression or exhaust stroke. Look at the cam gear. There is a dimple on it. That dimple should be at 12 o'clock. If you don't see the dimple on the cam gear, rotate the crankshaft pulley 360 degrees and line the knotch up again. You should see the dimple now and it if it's not at 12 o'clock, then you skipped a tooth. Before removing the cam gear, rotate the cam so the dimple is at 12 o'clock. Once you have the timing chain exposed, you can replace the guide. Make sure when you put everything back together that the cam gear dimple is at 12 o'clock and the knotch in the crankshaft pulley is lined up at the 0 degree mark on the timing cover so piston #1 is at top dead center (some chains have 2 silver links which are supposed to line up with the dimples on the cam gear and the crankshaft gear).

When you install the distributor, slide in the rotor so it goes in at 12 o'clock. It will rotate counter clockwise and line up to the #1 spark plug. That will get you close enough to get it started. You shouldn't need a light to get the motor running decent, but you will need it to set it to precision. If you don't want to buy a light, rotate the distributor until the enging sounds normal then take it to a shop. It would take them all of 5 minutes if you installed your chain and distriblutor right. I don't know what they charge for that though.

 

Well sorry its been so freakin' long, but I finally was able to change my timing chain. I decided not to pull the head. This was a big job for me and I figured if I had to pull the head I would later. I did pull the oil pan and found the nice pieces of plastic. Everything went pretty smooth though and I have no leaks. Unfortunatly I still have the same loud tapping sound. The timing chain definitly needed to be changed but I think something is wrong up top also. Like I said I still have the loud tapping, the truck kinda misses, and I have alot of carbon in my exhaust. So now I am going to pull the head and try to see whats going on. Any links anyone would reccommend for me to study up on for head removal? Could it be a bad valve? if so should I fix the head or just get a new one with everything already installed?

Doing the timing chain was alot of work but I learned alot. I feel much more confident to pull the head now.

 

Well if you've got the money get one of the pre set ones from ed but if not it should be a little cheaper to get yours remaned granted nothing is terribly wrong. It all comes down to time and money.

 

Before I had so much noise it was tough to tell what was going on. I knew the timing chain was slapping so I started with that.

So here is my current situation.

Just replaced timing chain using 4crawler's writeup, helped alot
Still have a loud knock coming from the top end, intake side?
Way to loud to be valve chatter, i mean its a solid knock
Truck still misses and runs rough after setting the timing.
When it is running it will spit black soot/carbon out the exhaust onto the ground but doesn't really smoke.

The timing chain job was by far the biggest job I have ever tackled. I did it solo and everything went well though. I really don't know alot about motors. I am thinking I have a valve sticking or burnt up. Sounds like a problem with the head for sure though right? Anyone got any suggestions on what could be wrong or do these symptoms point to anything specifically?

update: I have done some reading and have reason to believe I screwed up setting the timing. I am going to check that out as well as the TPS.

 

How can I tell if the distributor gear is off a tooth? Thanx

 

Don't you just love it when you ask for some advice on a "possible" problem, the first thing you hear back is to go spend a years salary on some "quality" Toyota brand parts (like it really makes a rats ass difference any how) and then sooner or later some other genius mechanic tells you to "run some seafoam" through it. I guess next you'll have some idiot come back with a "put some synthetic motor oil in it" comment. I think that the first thing you may have messed up on was starting it BEFORE you changed the 10 year old motor oil. Any how, I would suggest just picking up a $12 Haynes manual and go from there.

 

moving forward...

Timing/TPS problems can, and will, cause myriad symptoms. Definitely the first level to clear.

Does your motor oil indicate wearing parts? Did you inspect the camshaft while you were replacing the sprocket? I have seen fried head/camshafts , the results of oil starvation. That could cause the described katzenjammer. Perhaps a sticking valve... A wrist pin!!?

Supposing it's not a wrist pin...

In my frugal world, if i were u, I would Pick-n-Pull a good, used, OEM '85-'95 22R/RE head/cam/rocker-arms @ ~$60 outtapocket, ebay the Engine Set for $40, and go at it. Clean and visually inspect the head; bypass the expen$ive detour to the machine$hop! Do the labor; it's easier this time 'cause everything's cleaner and you are becoming more intimate with those parts. This procedure eliminates a number of perps. But that's just me...

You've done the heavy lifting already; the differential pull (for the pan) is bigger than the head R&R.

 

The oil has always stayed very clean even after 3K. This motor definitly is low mileage(85K). The cam lobes all look good and never had any particles in the oil.(Except for the timing guide pieces)

I did not set the timing correctly. I finished the timing chain late last night. Fill her up and started her. Let it run just long enough to get to temp and circulate oil and coolant. I did not jump the connectors and use a timing light. I do have a timing light however, and when the kids go to bed tonight I am gonna go do it right. So considering the timing is consideralbly off and possible the distributor off a tooth, that could probably cause some pretty loud knocking right? Maybe premature detonation or something causing the black soot? I'll try to find out tonight if its just the timing way off, or I will need to pull the head.

I want to go outside and tinker with it right now. I really wish both my kids were old enough to hang out in the garage. My oldest is 4 so he can but my youngest is only 12 months.

 

Yea! The timing issue can cause detonation noises and create carbon. TPS adjustment can confound attempts to set the timing. IF jumping the connector does not change the timing, then the TPS needs adjusting. And, conversely, if jumping the connector does change the timing, it is a simple verification that TPS is (probably) adjusted correctly.

'Maybe lock the kids in the 4Rnr while you're wrenching'? What'd I know? I'm single!

 

Yeah it's extremely difficult to find time to go outside and wrench. My 12 month old has two ear infections and isn't very happy tonight. My 4 year old found a tub of salve and decided to liberally coat our new puppy with it. LOL
But pretty soon they'll both be out in the garage and I will be showing them how to use an angle grinder.

Thanx for all the help, when I can do the timing correctly I will post up

 

I had a chance to work on the truck for a while tonight. I tried to set the timing correctly using a timing gun, as I have recently finished changing the timing set. Jumping the connectors(if I was using the right ones?), had no effect on the timing. At first I was getting a reading of like 30 degrees BTDC. After getting around 10 degrees BTDC the exhaust cleared up(no soot, no detonation). Problem is the timing is constantly jumping back and forth like 5 degrees. If I set it down to 5 degrees BTDC(like it should be), it would eventually die. The idle speed goes up and down also. I am thinking its time to check out the TPS a little closer. Anything else that could be the problem? I have 4crawlers TPS troubleshooting page, any others?

Oh yeah, I still have the loud knocking. Could the TPS be the root cause of such a loud knock?