pinion nut... front axle.... how to properly torque it?
11-20-2010, 06:13 PM
#1
pinion nut... front axle.... how to properly torque it?
I have seen the FSM on this and was wondering what people do for this?
I know there's the crush sleeve and technically that should be replaced when you unbolt this nut, which I have to replace the seal there. Would you guys recommend this to get it setup instead of the crush sleeve. I have a stock rig as far as suspension, drivetrain, and tires.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/differe...ion-spacer-kit
Please let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks.
I know there's the crush sleeve and technically that should be replaced when you unbolt this nut, which I have to replace the seal there. Would you guys recommend this to get it setup instead of the crush sleeve. I have a stock rig as far as suspension, drivetrain, and tires.
http://www.marlincrawler.com/differe...ion-spacer-kit
Please let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks.
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live4soccer7 (11-20-2010)
11-20-2010, 07:05 PM
#3
I'm not sure how many turns it went off. I think I could see about two threads or so and I had to get a new nut as well. It has been off for a couple months while I have been working on other things, so I was thinking that going by the book on this one would be the best option. If you really don't think so, then I'll go ahead and do as suggested in the link above.
It will be a dd and get quite a few miles, which is why I want this spot on. I don't want any issues to arise b/c of it not being installed completely correct.
It will be a dd and get quite a few miles, which is why I want this spot on. I don't want any issues to arise b/c of it not being installed completely correct.
11-20-2010, 07:25 PM
#4
For sure, a solid spacer is the best option, probably have to have a shop install it unless you are set up with the tools to do that project yourself.
I've had good luck with re-torquing the pinion nut, did so on my old rear diff 3-4 times over the years. The key is not to go over about 90 ft-lbs, that is about 2/3 the torque typically needed to crush the crush sleeve during install. Also, a front diff is not going to see a lot of use in a DD, unless it is run in 4WD a lot.
I've had good luck with re-torquing the pinion nut, did so on my old rear diff 3-4 times over the years. The key is not to go over about 90 ft-lbs, that is about 2/3 the torque typically needed to crush the crush sleeve during install. Also, a front diff is not going to see a lot of use in a DD, unless it is run in 4WD a lot.
11-20-2010, 07:40 PM
#5
It may see 4hi quite a bit as we can get quite a bit of snow here sometimes and I drive to ski mountains a few times a week during the winter. I've got a torque wrench. Other than the tool need to tell how much "drag" there is just as the yoke turns, what else is there that is needed?
11-20-2010, 08:01 PM
#6
The crush sleave/pinion spacer can be reused/retorqued provided that the pinion nut torque does not exceed 253 ft-lbf before the drive pinion preload has been reached. You can use an in.-lbf torque wrench to measure the drive pinion preload. Those two kinds of torque wrenches are the only tools required.
See page SA-150 of the FSM.
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...35differen.pdf
See page SA-150 of the FSM.
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...35differen.pdf
15. ADJUST DRIVE PINION PRELOAD
Using a torque meter, measure the preload of the back–
lash between the drive pinion and ring gear.
Preload (starting):
New bearing
7.5 in.
1.2 – 1.9 N–m
(12 – 19 kgf–cm, 10.4 – 16.5 in.–lbf)
8 in.
(2 pinion type)
1.9 – 2.5 N–m
(19 – 26 kgf–cm, 16.5 – 22.6 in.–lbf)
(4 pinion type)
1.0 – 1.6 N–m
(10 – 16 kgf–cm, 8.7 – 13.9 in.–lbf)
Reused bearing
7.5 in.
0.6 – 1.0 N–m
(6 – 10 kgf–cm, 5.2 – 8.7 in.–lbf)
8 in.
(2 pinion type)
0.9 – 1.3 N–m
(9 – 13 kgf–cm, 7.8 – 11.3 in.–lbf)
(4 pinion type)
0.5 – 0.8 N–m
(5 – 8 kgf –cm, 4.3 – 6.9 in.–lbf )
(a) If preload is greater than specification, replace the
bearing spacer.
(b) If preload is less than specification, retighten the nut
13 N–m (130 kgf–cm, 9 ft–lbf) a little at a time until
the specified preload is reached.
Maximum torque:
7.5 in.
235 N–m (2,400 kgf–cm, 174 ft–lbf)
8 in.
343 N–m (3,500 kgf–cm, 253 ft–lbf)
If the maximum torque is exceeded while retightening the
nut, replace the bearing spacer and repeat the preload
procedure.
Using a torque meter, measure the preload of the back–
lash between the drive pinion and ring gear.
Preload (starting):
New bearing
7.5 in.
1.2 – 1.9 N–m
(12 – 19 kgf–cm, 10.4 – 16.5 in.–lbf)
8 in.
(2 pinion type)
1.9 – 2.5 N–m
(19 – 26 kgf–cm, 16.5 – 22.6 in.–lbf)
(4 pinion type)
1.0 – 1.6 N–m
(10 – 16 kgf–cm, 8.7 – 13.9 in.–lbf)
Reused bearing
7.5 in.
0.6 – 1.0 N–m
(6 – 10 kgf–cm, 5.2 – 8.7 in.–lbf)
8 in.
(2 pinion type)
0.9 – 1.3 N–m
(9 – 13 kgf–cm, 7.8 – 11.3 in.–lbf)
(4 pinion type)
0.5 – 0.8 N–m
(5 – 8 kgf –cm, 4.3 – 6.9 in.–lbf )
(a) If preload is greater than specification, replace the
bearing spacer.
(b) If preload is less than specification, retighten the nut
13 N–m (130 kgf–cm, 9 ft–lbf) a little at a time until
the specified preload is reached.
Maximum torque:
7.5 in.
235 N–m (2,400 kgf–cm, 174 ft–lbf)
8 in.
343 N–m (3,500 kgf–cm, 253 ft–lbf)
If the maximum torque is exceeded while retightening the
nut, replace the bearing spacer and repeat the preload
procedure.
Last edited by MudHippy; 11-20-2010 at 08:06 PM.
11-20-2010, 08:29 PM
#7
Ok.... Looks like i'm in need of a new tool then. Any suggestion on a good in-lb torque wrench?
Another question I have is what size/type do I have? 7.5", 8" 2 Pinion Type, or 8" 4 Pinion type? I have not idea what these mean as I've never done anything with this before, so it is all new in my book. I have an 84 4runner with a 22r lazer block, if that helps narrow it down. Otherwise, let me know what I need to do to find out?
Another question I have is what size/type do I have? 7.5", 8" 2 Pinion Type, or 8" 4 Pinion type? I have not idea what these mean as I've never done anything with this before, so it is all new in my book. I have an 84 4runner with a 22r lazer block, if that helps narrow it down. Otherwise, let me know what I need to do to find out?
Last edited by live4soccer7; 11-20-2010 at 08:34 PM.
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11-21-2010, 05:09 PM
#8
I've been reading about the pinion and ring a little and I'm wondering if I have to mess with the pinion depth and/or pinion backlash? I just removed the seal and will have to remove the crush sleeve b/c I'm going to go with the solid spacer from marlin. I've got a 0-24 in. lb torque wrench on it's way as well. Just want to make sure I get all aspects correctly with this. Thanks for any help or suggestions.
This is the item I've been looking at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=380059623380
I think it will get the job done. Any input on it would be great. I missed out on a really nice snap on torque tool that was 0-24 in-lb, but I missed the auction by literally seconds.
This is the item I've been looking at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=380059623380
I think it will get the job done. Any input on it would be great. I missed out on a really nice snap on torque tool that was 0-24 in-lb, but I missed the auction by literally seconds.
Last edited by live4soccer7; 11-21-2010 at 05:43 PM.
11-22-2010, 08:01 AM
#9
Another question I have is what size/type do I have? 7.5", 8" 2 Pinion Type, or 8" 4 Pinion type? I have not idea what these mean as I've never done anything with this before, so it is all new in my book. I have an 84 4runner with a 22r lazer block, if that helps narrow it down. Otherwise, let me know what I need to do to find out?
I've been reading about the pinion and ring a little and I'm wondering if I have to mess with the pinion depth and/or pinion backlash? I just removed the seal and will have to remove the crush sleeve b/c I'm going to go with the solid spacer from marlin. I've got a 0-24 in. lb torque wrench on it's way as well. Just want to make sure I get all aspects correctly with this. Thanks for any help or suggestions.
This is the item I've been looking at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=380059623380
I think it will get the job done. Any input on it would be great. I missed out on a really nice snap on torque tool that was 0-24 in-lb, but I missed the auction by literally seconds.
This is the item I've been looking at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=380059623380
I think it will get the job done. Any input on it would be great. I missed out on a really nice snap on torque tool that was 0-24 in-lb, but I missed the auction by literally seconds.
Since you're going to have to remove the carrier from the 3rd member housing to be able to remove the crush sleave and install the solid pinion spacer, ring gear backlash is going to be an issue that needs addressed. If you're careful to mark ALL the parts removed during the process so they can be replaced in there exact same positions, then it wouldn't change from where it was prior. That can be a bit tricky to do though(easier said than done). And if it's no longer in specs, then that won't do much good anyway. You can usually reset/tighten it up and still have a good tooth contact pattern on the ring gear, without needing to adjust the pinion depth. Sometimes(rarely)changing/adding to the pinion shim is necessary though to get a good gear tooth contact pattern.
The installation procedures for a solid pinion spacer are different than those for a crush sleave(Toyota still uses the term pinion spacer for these, even though they aren't the solid type). It requires that the pinion nut be tightened to within certain torque specifications, and then the pinion bearing preload to be checked. To loosen or tighten the pinion bearing preload requires adding or subtracting shims to the spacer, and retorquing/rechecking untill the desired preload is achieved.
More info on how to check/set ring gear backlash and install a solid pinion spacer can be found in the links below.
http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-b...35differen.pdf
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/gear_setup/
Last edited by MudHippy; 11-22-2010 at 08:05 AM.
12-01-2010, 09:20 PM
#10
I finally got the tool in stock today and I've decided to just re-use the crush sleeve that is in there for the time being until spring when I will have more time and nice weather to work on it. The 7.8-11.3 in-lbs is amount that it takes to move the pinion shaft (the backlash, not when turning the axle)? Kind of hard to explain I guess, but there should be some "slop", per say, b/c of the backlash and this is where the measurement should be taken and it should be that amount (8-11 in-lbs) that causes it to break loose and turn in it's "backlash" state?
I'm sure the terminology is completely wrong on this, but I'm trying to describe my understanding of this. I'm going to be buttoning up this thing tomorrow, so I wanted to be sure of this last step.
I'm sure the terminology is completely wrong on this, but I'm trying to describe my understanding of this. I'm going to be buttoning up this thing tomorrow, so I wanted to be sure of this last step.
12-01-2010, 10:35 PM
#11
might wanna do some reading here: http://gearinstalls.com/
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