85 4runner, stock, 31x10.50 tires

Spent Saturday replacing the worn out OEM steering components with OEM replacements. TRE's, drag link, stabilizer, sway bar.

Set the TRE's like the factory service manual stated 47.25".

Once on the truck, checked toe in, and had to turn the adjuster rod one turn to get it toe'd in 1/8".

With the wheels straight, the steering wheel is turned to the right at 25*.

locked it all down and took it the service station on monday for an alignment.

Got it back that afternoon after the mech had gone for the day.

They only charged me half and gave me a print out.

Print out stated the total toe was within specs, camber on left front was at 0*, right was at .82*.

I went in and spoke to the mech today. he said there was nothing he could do for it. The steering wheel is not adjustable, and I needed to order a camber shim for the steering knuckle.

I looked over the FSM and it does not seem to call for a wedge in the steering knuckle, it looks like the wedge would be placed under the leaf spring. Is this correct? Looks to me like the shims under the steering arm on the knuckle are for the bearing preload.

Also I dropped the tie rod tonight, turned the left TRE in one turn and the right out one turn. It did not make a difference in the toe in, steering wheel alignment, or drivability. Does this sound right? Is the only way to fix the steering wheel alignment to take the wheel off and put it back on straight.

Front and rear leafs are weak and sagging. On the list to do.

Thanks

 

Okay it sounds like the toe-in is good but you want a straight steering wheel. The adjustment you attempted only moved the tie rod sleeve a little since you did the same adjustment to each side with the tie rods out of the steering arms. Recheck your toe-in to confirm.
Since you have an OE drag link you can't get your wheel straight there. An adjustable drag link lets you fine adjust your steering wheel but they are dropped for a 4 inch lift or more. I woundn't use one with sagging OE springs. You can pull the wheel itself but you probably won't want to move it to the next spline since you say its only a little off.

You are right about the shim. No shim is going to fix your camber. Those shims under the spring are for caster or pinion angle and I don't like them either way.

Your axle housing could be bent or your spindle could even be bent. On older front drum brake solid axle trucks (American) you could actually shim the spindle for camber but you can't with disc brakes because the caliper stays fixed.

There is a company that makes knuckle bearings that use an offset race top and bottom to affect camber and/or caster or a combination of the two depending on how you would orient the offsets. Specialty Products is the company. Alignment and hard to correct cars is their only product. Not to be confused with the truck accesory company.

Sorry about the long answer. Trying to think of everything.

 

I'm sorry I miss spoke, my camber is good, it is the caster that is vertical on the left front, and negative on the right.

But either way, thanks desertcamper. I will check specialty and see what they can do for it.

Wheel bearings and knuckly overhaul is next anyway. I'll check the spindle and axle housing while it is all apart.

Would you even worry with the offset bearings, with it only out such a small amount. How bad is that going to eat at the tires? Just rotate the tires more?

Thanks

 

If it doesn'tpull, don't worry.

It is really hard to change caster on one side and not affect the other. Its a solid axle. It would have to twist the axle or again knockle bearings.
Think of caster like this: a tricycle has almost no caster. The angle of front to back tilt of the steering axis. A chopper, on the other hand has a lot of positive caster. Mega tilt of the steering axis.
On a car/truck this is measured at each front wheel. You can see that it would be very hard to get only one side to change and not the other when you have a solid axle up front. Even when using the shims that go between the spring pack and the axle youjust can't change one side without affecting the other.
Caster helps return the steering wheel to center after you go around a corner and helps stabilize the vehicle cornering. Very different caster readings left or right will cause a pull to the low side.
Caster and camber is usually not an issue with a stock height solid axle rig. If fact camber doesn't change at all with a lift on a solid axle. Neither does toe-in. Steering radius can though because of the short drag link.

I hope this helps.

 

Helped a lot. Thanks

Think I have good grasp of caster and camber now.

When I said I miss spoke about the camber earlier, I was wrong again. I had left the print out at work. The caster is spot on.

left side camber is vertical, right is positive .82*

Checked the total toe again and it is spot on at 1/8" in. Checked it at the center of the tire, roled forward and aft.

Truck does not pull to either side. So I am going to take your advice and not loose any sleep over it. Just ensure the tires have propper air pressure, and they get rotated often.

I did a little research on the caster/camber trunnions from Specialty, and they are $155.00 a piece. So I am not going to rush out and get those for sure.

I am sure that my trunnion bearings have never been overhauled. My plan is to do those and the wheel bearings the first of Sept. Seems like if the trunnions are worn, or worn out it could be cause of the camber being out.

I am also getting just wee bit of steering wonder, equal on both sides. I have pushed and pulled on the tires while it is on the lift, and the wheel bearings do not give any noticable play. But, I would not be suprised if they need to be replaced.

Steering knuckle is leaking anyway.

Looking at the Downy kit. Any suggestions.

I will post how the knuckle overhaul goes, and if it put the camber back to specs.

Once again thanks for the help. I know there are a lot of these type of questions. But it sure was helpful.

 

Big tires will follow cracks and lines in the road. Is this your wander?

 

31x10.50 is what is on there. The roads have pretty much all just been resurfaced. Black top. Not saying they did the best job in the world, but they are pretty smooth. The roads are really crowned for water run off, but still wonders a bit each way. It does not wonder a lot. Just enough to get your attention at times. And just from what little I have done to it, it is much, much better. Could the worn front leaf springs be adding to the problem? May just be something I have to get used to. I have not owned a SFA before, so a lot is new.

Thanks

 

I think you still have some problem in your steering linkage. Your steering gear may have excessive play causing you to have to correct constantly and move the wheel a lot to do a little. Or you could have a bad knuckle bearing(s) causing the steering movement to be jerky or tight (binding) making you have to correct a lot too.
Are your hubs working right? They are completely released, right? No drag or noise from the front driving on the street?

If I were you, when I take it apart, I would start noticing how much effort it takes to move the steering linkage. Not by the steering wheel but by hand. Grab the caliper and rotor and just notice how it feels. Do this after separating the drag link from the L side steering arm. Then after separating either tie rod end from steering arm/knuckle. Feel each side for excessive drag. It may not show up in your bearings appearance, but you may not have the correct shim combination which can be a tricky job to correct.
Good luck.

 

I am right with you on the knuckle bearings. From reading a lot of the posts, I am pretty confident the knuckle bearings are shot. It is much harder to steer to the right than it is to the left. Also with the camber out, but to such a little degree, and several other symptoms it all leads to the knuckle bearings. I am just hoping the shims are correct. I have a good stash of tools, but I dont think I am set up to follow the FSM to figure out the correct combination of shims.

The hubs are pointing to the free position, with no rubbing or grinding noises coming from them. But I have not been inside them yet.

I also dont doubt the wheel bearings are on the edge of their life span. I plan to do them at the same time I do the knuckle bearings. Also go through the hubs.

When I had the TRE's out, and the drag link down, I turned the idler arm from lock to lock. The idler arm, and gear box felt very smooth, with no rubbing, grinding or play. No leaks from it either.

I do have another question for you though.

On the torque rod. I had it out all week before I had the chance to get the old bushings pressed out and the new ones in. When I went to put it back in tonight, I put the front bolt in and tightened it hand tight. Then I noticed the rear was off set above the mount and out to the drivers side about 1/2 - 3/4". I can push it down into the mount, but I can not get the holes to line up. I can get the bolt in from the drive side, but no matter hard I pry on it, it does not line up. Dont want to hammer on it to hard, it will either just put it in a bind, or dick up the treads, or both.

It seems like the front axle is off. the mounts look good, and the torque rod is straight and square. Can I loosen the U bolts, then shift the front axle a little, if that gets the bolts to line up, then take measurements to ensure the front axle is straight? I was thinking of plumb bobbing down off the frame to the center of the front axle and measuring back from the core support to each plumb bob. Does this sound like a game plan. Or do you have another thought.

 

Thats your pitman arm. No Idler arms on solid asles. Solid axle, solid steering.

You might need to take a BFH to one of your mounts. Also you may need to take measurements from the spring perches to spot on the frame that has an obvious equal point on the other side for comparison.

Lastly, if your rear axle isn't square you will have to correct the dog tracking by turning the wheel a little to go straight. With a good eye you may be able to see it by sighting down the rear tires to the front.

Was it hard to remove the torque rod? Try jacking up one end of the front axle or the other to get the twist you need to get those bolt holes lined up.

 

Yeah, seams like it I remember it being hard to pop the torque rod out. I did not think much of it at the time. I plan to go out this morning and spend some time sighting, and measuring before the BFH. I will post how it all went. I need to learn how to post pictures. So I show what is going on with different things.

I have limited budget to get her up to speed. I have about $250.00 a month that I can put into it. So here is the major things that need to be done before I can start on the nicer things like new leafs, collecting engine rebuild stuff and what not. what do you think is the priority order.

1. TPS is bad
2. Clutch is going quick
3. Exhaust is shot from the muffler back(Factory Toyo exhaust if you can believe it)
4. Knuckles need overhaul
5. Wheel bearings
6. Engine is by passing oil(1-2 quarts a week)
7. Timing chain has some slapping going on.
8. Sounds like the cam bearings are worn.

I would like to keep it running as much as possible while the work is going on. But if it is down for a while for one reason or another. I have my HD I ride while is being repaired.

Picking up a 2 ton engine lift and 1 ton stand tomorrow, from harbor frieght. I have a 87 PU 22r in the garage. Plan to pull the engine and tranny. Overhaul them so they are ready to drop into the 85 runner when needed. Then do the one out of the runner for the 87 PU.

Well had better grab a cup of joe and go see what is going on with the runner front end.

 

To get the torque rod back in I had to loosen the axle u-bolts and rotate the axle forward. The bolts fell right in.

I deffinately need a better torque wrench. All I have now is one of the old needle point jobs. I works but really hard to be exact with it. And I am not sure it reads the same every time.

How much torque do you all put on the lug nuts. I have never really used a torque wrench for lug nuts. Just a long 1/2" breaker bar and a bit of body weight. But from looking at the rim, I may be putting butt into it. I have the stock chrome metal rims on it. This time I put 100ft lbs on each lug nut. I looked in the FSM, and it does not really say how much torque. I know a noob question, but any way.

Thanks for the help

 

you only need about 77-80 lbs on the lugnuts. I never use a torque wrench. Just my 4 way and hands.

I left my torque rod off after I rolled my truck and twisted my axle bracket. I don't miss it either.

I just replaced my TPS a couple of months ago. I just happened to have a brand new one in the box. Can't remember why. But it is a Toyota OE part. I later found that you can get one from Kragen for about half the Toyota price. I would do that next time I need to change it.