I read 4crawlers write-up on replacing the seal in there, and I did it the other weekend. No more front diff leak, and that's really nice. What I was wondering is: I read his write-up, but I didn't pay as close attention as I should have to the number of turns it took to get the nut off. So I tightened it back down...and maybe overtightened it? I just noticed reading back through his instructions again that ~90ft/lbs is the torque setting, so I guess I'll check on that later, but if you read the non-FSM repair manual it says that if you over-torque it, you've got to go to the dealership and have a certified technician or some crap replace the washer and set it to the correct torque, because you've now exceeded it's torque limits and ruined it. So to finally get to the question...what's the affect of overtorquing it? Will it mess up my front diff gears at all? Or what? Think I'm safe just backing it off?

I'm actually surprised at the 90ft/lb torque, becaue my haynes manual says that with the truck lifted on jack stands, if you tighten the nut to the point where the wheels start to turn, you've already gone too far. It seems like it would take a lot less than 90ft/lbs to turn the front wheels....but what the hell do I know.

 

It depends on whether the diff was setup using a solid pinion spacer or a crush sleeve. Early on, Toyota used solid spacers (my '79 had solid spacers). At some point, Toyota switched to crush sleeves - I'm not sure when. If your '83 has the solid spacer then you can re-torque to the torque specified in the FSM. If you have a crush sleeve, then 90 ft-lb is probably too much - the crush sleeve can crush and cause too much pre-load on your pinion bearing leading to premature failure of the pinion bearing.

Someone else here probably knows when Toyota quit using the solid pinion spacer. Of course without disassembling it, you don't know for sure (some one could have done some work on it and changed something).

You can get some idea of your preload by turning the pinion flange. If it turns hard or feels kind of notchy, then there is too much preload. If it turns free and feels nice and smooth, then you might be okay.

It's not that hard to remove the pinion bearing and see if you have a crush sleeve or solid spacer. The problem is that you may need a bearing puller to get the bearing off. If there are alot of miles on the diff, the bearing may come off without a puller (mine did).

 

www.gearinstalls.com all the info you need plus some!

iirc there is no torque spec for that nut. unless its a solid spacer then its like 200ftlbs. for a crush sleeve your supposed to tighten that nut down until you get the correct pinion bearing preload, but if you go to far then you have over crushed the crush sleeve, and need a new one!

 

You can generally torque the pinion nut to around 90 ft.lbs. even with a crush sleeve and not cause it to further crush. The crushing torque is up around 130 ft.lb. I used to have to tighten the pinion nut on my old Detroit locked rear diff every year or so and used 90 ft.lb. setting on the torque wrench and re-staked the nut each time with no ill effects. You can go less than 90 if you want, but that nut needs to be pretty darn tight.

 

Ok great, thanks. How would I know if I didn't get it pretty darn tight? I mean I know I need to just pull the driveshaft again and check it, but is there some way I would know without doing that if I hadn't tightened it down enough? I'm guessing since I staked it I'd really need to un-stake it to get an accurate torque reading.

 

If you can feel any play in the pinion flange then it is not tight enough. How to check. Block the wheels, e-brake off and get under the truck and grasp the bottom end of the drive shaft at the pinion flange and push/pull on it as hard as you can and feel for any movement up-down or side-side.

 

Will do. Thanks!

 

Alright, I tightened the nut down a bit; there was a little play in the flange. Now it seems good. Now for my t-case output leak...I couldn't get the nut loosened. The manual says to drop the rear driveshaft, then put a couple bolts back in the flange and put a pry bar in there to keep it from turning. Anyone have any advice on this? I couldn't figure out a good way to get a bar in there to pry..I'm just using a small crow bar, since it's all I have. Even with the truck in gear, I couldn't get the nut loosened. It would start turning the tranny & engine. I did unstake the nut.

 

I made a little tool to hold mine out of a length of steel flat bar from the hardware store. I think I used 1/8" or 3/16" x 2" wide bar, about 3' long and drilled two holes on the edge of the bar at one end to match the flange bolt holes, then just bolt that bar to the flange and turn it so that the bar hits either the ground or the frame to lock the flange in place.

 

I didn't read your whole thread, but are you doning the T-case rear out put seal, or the front?

Either way, if you are doing the rear, put the T-case in 4 wheel drive, lock in your hubs, and have some one hold the break. Then try to loosen the flange nut. this has always worked for me. You can do the vise-versa for the front.

 

Great, thanks guys. Yeah, I'm doing the rear output. I'll try the 4wd-hubs locked in-brake method, if that doesn't get it I'll look for some better pry bars and maybe drill out holes for the flange bolts. Thanks!

 

I've got a similar problem. I had to replace the pinion flange on my new rear 3rd and I may have tightened it down too much. the nut took about 1/2 less turn to put it on as to take it off so the new flange might be a bit thicker. anyway it felt damn tight and I only torqued it to 80 ft lbs cause I didn't want to go over.

I measure preload with the bearings dry and both wheels up, and it was around 20 in-lb. before changing the flange. I checked it again after and it was more like 40, but that was with only one wheel up so i had the resistance of the spider gears to factor in, too. i know these aren't very scientific measurements unfortunately.

it doesn't seem to have any real trouble turning, but it does feel a bit notchy like scottd said. then again, if i hadn't hit the torque of the crush sleeve it can't be any higher than it was before, right?

I guess my real question is whats the worst that can happen if the preload is too high? it doesn't seem to make noise or drive funny, but i've only taken it around the block so far.

 

I just replaced my pinion seal and I forgot to count turns when I backed out the pinion nut. Following the advice on this thread and 4crawlers site I tightened it down to 90lb but it didn't line up with the original stake marks so I just re-staked it in the new position. It did seem rather easy to loosen so I am wondering if it was at the wrong torque before hand? Can anyone advise whether or not this was the correct thing to do?

1994 22re 5sp 4wd

 

You did the right thing. They just loosen up over the years and hundreds of thousands of miles. You could have tightened it even tighter. Even 130-140fp is not enough to crush a sleeve.

I have tightened many that tight with no ill effects.

 

Okay- thanks! Now I guess its time to see if the seal solves my leak