horn buttons in steering column
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
horn buttons in steering column
I searched and found stuff for later models, but I didn't find anything on 1st gen. so here goes...
The horn is dead. This is the three spoke steering wheel with bar-shaped horn buttons in the spokes. The center is a ~3" plastic disc covering the mounting bolt. I'd like to verify grounding upon button push... and find the horn wire from the column.
Before I crawl under the dash, Does anyone know the color of the horn wire and where it comes out from behind the steering column? This wire should be getting grounded in the column with button push, and I'd like to use it for the relay on the new dual tone Fiamm horns!
If the contacts are bad or need a shim in the steering column...
I think I just need to pry off the center plastic hub cover, but I sure don't want to crack it (30 years of Arizona heat). Is it easy to pry out? two,three or four tabs holding it in there?
The horn is dead. This is the three spoke steering wheel with bar-shaped horn buttons in the spokes. The center is a ~3" plastic disc covering the mounting bolt. I'd like to verify grounding upon button push... and find the horn wire from the column.
Before I crawl under the dash, Does anyone know the color of the horn wire and where it comes out from behind the steering column? This wire should be getting grounded in the column with button push, and I'd like to use it for the relay on the new dual tone Fiamm horns!
If the contacts are bad or need a shim in the steering column...
I think I just need to pry off the center plastic hub cover, but I sure don't want to crack it (30 years of Arizona heat). Is it easy to pry out? two,three or four tabs holding it in there?
#2
Registered User
A very common problem is the contact behind the steering wheel wearing out. There's a spring loaded brass pin that rides on a circular disc on the back of the wheel. That pin often wears out as you turn and gets too short to make contact. I just fixed this on my roommate's truck by removing the steering wheel, taking that pin out, adding some solder to the tip of it, and putting it back in. Free fix as long as you have a soldering iron and some solder. Good luck!
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks. This is very helpful. I have heard about the contact in the steering column on later models, but didn't know it was in 1st gen.
I tested at the horn and there's no power. Fuse is fine. (edit...WRONG!-I needed to wiggle the probe in the connector to contact!) I was under the impression that the buttons ground the line from the horn to complete the circuit. I can use that for the direct battery powered relay once I verify it is working. I'll just ground the powered relay through the horn button. So I will find the black/white line and see if it gets grounded or connected to horn wire (grounding horn wire) when button is pushed. I can rewire the whole thing if I find a bad wire, but somehow I suspect I'll be in the column working on the contacts! Seems inevitable!
I tested at the horn and there's no power. Fuse is fine. (edit...WRONG!-I needed to wiggle the probe in the connector to contact!) I was under the impression that the buttons ground the line from the horn to complete the circuit. I can use that for the direct battery powered relay once I verify it is working. I'll just ground the powered relay through the horn button. So I will find the black/white line and see if it gets grounded or connected to horn wire (grounding horn wire) when button is pushed. I can rewire the whole thing if I find a bad wire, but somehow I suspect I'll be in the column working on the contacts! Seems inevitable!
Last edited by 83pingpong; 11-05-2012 at 12:02 PM.
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Twentynine Palms, CA
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have the same problem in my truck but the previous owner disconnected it at the horn. Look in front of the radiator and you see it. I haven't gone any further than that though.
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Uh, not much room between the front panel next to the radiator and the grill to mount these horns. They are'e that big, but bigger than the OEM. It will take some engineering. I don't want to put them inside the engine compartment. They'll be louder if I can mount them where the original horn is, that's for certain.
Last edited by 83pingpong; 12-12-2012 at 03:55 AM.
#7
Registered User
The horn on my 4runner is a switched ground type. If neither of the contacts at the plug have voltage, there's your problem. You have an open circuit somewhere. One wire to the horn should have constant power and the other one grounds through the horn buttons on the wheel.
Trending Topics
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NW Oregon
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^^ What he said, and mine are probably different than yours but I put some FIAMM horns from a lincoln in my first gen with no issues on space, but like I said yours are most likely different.
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The horn on my 4runner is a switched ground type. If neither of the contacts at the plug have voltage, there's your problem. You have an open circuit somewhere. One wire to the horn should have constant power and the other one grounds through the horn buttons on the wheel.
But...if the horn buttons still ground the horn, I should be able to use it to ground the new relay, and power the new horns directly. If so, won't matter why there's no power at the horn! So maybe I can just install a new fused power line and fast track this install. Well, not until this weekend
Last edited by 83pingpong; 10-29-2012 at 03:15 PM.
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The horn on my 4runner is a switched ground type. If neither of the contacts at the plug have voltage, there's your problem. You have an open circuit somewhere. One wire to the horn should have constant power and the other one grounds through the horn buttons on the wheel.
The switched (horn button) ground is definitely failed (green with red stripe). It doesn't ground when horn button pressed. I went ahead and installed the horns and made the wiring harness. New fused power for the high amp side of the relay, and got it all ready.
So, I was able to use the OEM connector for powering the switch side of the relay...transiently grounding the other side on the relay activates the horns as it should.
Obviously, I have a bad horn button connection in the steering column. I was hoping to avoid that. Oh well.
Lots of room in there and it was easy once I took off the plastic grill to work. I found a place for the second horn on the other side next to the air intake port. Out of the way and mounted solid:
Here is the OEM connector side:
Here's the other side:
I drilled a hole for this one, grounding the post directly, and took less room.
Good and LOUD!
Last edited by 83pingpong; 11-04-2012 at 10:42 AM.
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A few photos
Inferno451...I shimmed the ring instead because it was thick and hard enough not to flex. Worked fine. When you are doing this kind of thing, a couple of pics can be useful for the next patient.
1. Remove the six screws behind the steering column (on the spokes). That lets you pull off the three spoke horn button piece. Note: removing the cover from the middle of the steering wheel is not necessary.
Disconnect the green grounding wire and set aside.
2. 19mm socket for the steering wheel mounting bolt. Mine was not very tight. No problem.
3. Use a puller to put some stress on the wheel, and tap it with a hammer... it will pop loose.
The back piece has the contact ring. Mine was showing some signs of oxidation-obviously NOT in contact with the sprung post in the column!
4. Remove the contact ring (three little screws), clean it, apply dielectric grease, and mount it back in place with a few mm of washers underneath it:
Here it is, cleaned, shimmed, ready to go back on. You can see the six screw recesses that hold bottom/top together, sandwiching the steel steering wheel spokes.
The horn works perfectly now, of course.
Oh ya forgot to mention... when it is opened up (steering wheel off), you can test the horn circuit, by connecting the sprung post to the center steering column bolt with a wire. And, mine has hazards/horn on same fuse-hazards working, horn should be powered too. Good to know.
1. Remove the six screws behind the steering column (on the spokes). That lets you pull off the three spoke horn button piece. Note: removing the cover from the middle of the steering wheel is not necessary.
Disconnect the green grounding wire and set aside.
2. 19mm socket for the steering wheel mounting bolt. Mine was not very tight. No problem.
3. Use a puller to put some stress on the wheel, and tap it with a hammer... it will pop loose.
The back piece has the contact ring. Mine was showing some signs of oxidation-obviously NOT in contact with the sprung post in the column!
4. Remove the contact ring (three little screws), clean it, apply dielectric grease, and mount it back in place with a few mm of washers underneath it:
Here it is, cleaned, shimmed, ready to go back on. You can see the six screw recesses that hold bottom/top together, sandwiching the steel steering wheel spokes.
The horn works perfectly now, of course.
Oh ya forgot to mention... when it is opened up (steering wheel off), you can test the horn circuit, by connecting the sprung post to the center steering column bolt with a wire. And, mine has hazards/horn on same fuse-hazards working, horn should be powered too. Good to know.
Last edited by 83pingpong; 11-05-2012 at 12:13 PM.
#12
Registered User
Thanks for those photos! I'll try that this fall.
One good piece of advice on removing the steering wheel: if you don't have a puller, which most of us probably don't, the way you're going to want to do it is to take the nut all the way off, then pull real hard until the wheel pops off.
This is exactly how to do it, except that if you don't want to hit yourself in the face when the wheel comes loose after all your pulling, leave the nut on. Loosen it, but keep a few threads still on there, so when it pops loose, it hits the nut and not your face.
One good piece of advice on removing the steering wheel: if you don't have a puller, which most of us probably don't, the way you're going to want to do it is to take the nut all the way off, then pull real hard until the wheel pops off.
This is exactly how to do it, except that if you don't want to hit yourself in the face when the wheel comes loose after all your pulling, leave the nut on. Loosen it, but keep a few threads still on there, so when it pops loose, it hits the nut and not your face.
#13
Super Moderator
Staff
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Anderson Missouri
Posts: 11,788
Likes: 0
Received 21 Likes
on
19 Posts
Here is another problem that happens with the horn for a fix. Use a spent .22 shell.
The way I fix this to take a small flat blade around the edge of the brass ring and raise it a little bit and slip some paper gasket under the brass ring. It has worn itself down and not making contact with the 11 oclock post.
Here is a better picture of the Brass Ring and my pointer finger is what makes contact to sound the horn. I just clean them with some fine grit sandpaper.
Got the horn to working. I used a .22 shell to make the contact to the steering wheel. I found this on Yotatech and like it better then how I used to fix my horns. I have it listed on my 88 4Runners build thread for more details about getting the horn to work on the first page.
Another way to test to see if horn works is touch the spring to the shaft.
Copied
Another thing I got fixed on my 91 was the horn. I know this happens alot and hopefully this will help some in the future. Pull the steering wheel with a Steering Wheel Puller that you can usually rent from a parts store for free. Then check it by touching the brass spring in the 11 oclock postion. I just used my wrench. If it honks it is most likely the brass ring on the back side of the wheel. Not the best picture but you should get the idea.
The way I fix this to take a small flat blade around the edge of the brass ring and raise it a little bit and slip some paper gasket under the brass ring. It has worn itself down and not making contact with the 11 oclock post.
Here is a better picture of the Brass Ring and my pointer finger is what makes contact to sound the horn. I just clean them with some fine grit sandpaper.
Got the horn to working. I used a .22 shell to make the contact to the steering wheel. I found this on Yotatech and like it better then how I used to fix my horns. I have it listed on my 88 4Runners build thread for more details about getting the horn to work on the first page.
Another way to test to see if horn works is touch the spring to the shaft.
Copied
Another thing I got fixed on my 91 was the horn. I know this happens alot and hopefully this will help some in the future. Pull the steering wheel with a Steering Wheel Puller that you can usually rent from a parts store for free. Then check it by touching the brass spring in the 11 oclock postion. I just used my wrench. If it honks it is most likely the brass ring on the back side of the wheel. Not the best picture but you should get the idea.
#15
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
My horn is not working. I have the two spoke steering wheel with a rectangle center with two buttons. Pulled the cover off and measured to voltage where the button contacts the plate thing. I only get 8V but my battery reads 12V. Not sure what to do with this voltage drop. I don't know if I need to pull my whole middle piece out and stack washers behind it like you did or not.
#16
Registered User
I searched and found stuff for later models, but I didn't find anything on 1st gen. so here goes...
The horn is dead. This is the three spoke steering wheel with bar-shaped horn buttons in the spokes. The center is a ~3" plastic disc covering the mounting bolt. I'd like to verify grounding upon button push... and find the horn wire from the column.
Before I crawl under the dash, Does anyone know the color of the horn wire and where it comes out from behind the steering column? This wire should be getting grounded in the column with button push, and I'd like to use it for the relay on the new dual tone Fiamm horns!
If the contacts are bad or need a shim in the steering column...
I think I just need to pry off the center plastic hub cover, but I sure don't want to crack it (30 years of Arizona heat). Is it easy to pry out? two,three or four tabs holding it in there?
The horn is dead. This is the three spoke steering wheel with bar-shaped horn buttons in the spokes. The center is a ~3" plastic disc covering the mounting bolt. I'd like to verify grounding upon button push... and find the horn wire from the column.
Before I crawl under the dash, Does anyone know the color of the horn wire and where it comes out from behind the steering column? This wire should be getting grounded in the column with button push, and I'd like to use it for the relay on the new dual tone Fiamm horns!
If the contacts are bad or need a shim in the steering column...
I think I just need to pry off the center plastic hub cover, but I sure don't want to crack it (30 years of Arizona heat). Is it easy to pry out? two,three or four tabs holding it in there?
#18
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My horn is not working. I have the two spoke steering wheel with a rectangle center with two buttons. Pulled the cover off and measured to voltage where the button contacts the plate thing. I only get 8V but my battery reads 12V. Not sure what to do with this voltage drop. I don't know if I need to pull my whole middle piece out and stack washers behind it like you did or not.
Last edited by 83pingpong; 03-11-2013 at 04:11 AM.
#20
Registered User
My horn is not working. I have the two spoke steering wheel with a rectangle center with two buttons. Pulled the cover off and measured to voltage where the button contacts the plate thing. I only get 8V but my battery reads 12V. Not sure what to do with this voltage drop. I don't know if I need to pull my whole middle piece out and stack washers behind it like you did or not.