WolfMann

Hey everyone, so I need some advice. I wanted to replace the head gasket on my 22r because I wasn't sure when that had last happened (used truck). So I take everything apart, get to the head, and notice the bolts seem over-torqued (had to use a breaker and cheater bar to loosen) but I get them off in sequence, scrape old gasket, get new one on the block and reinstall the head being sure to torque the bolts to spec and in the right order. While reinstalling the timing cover bolt I gave a little extra twist and heard a cranking sort of sound, dismissed it at the time as paranoia and proceeded to reassemble everything. Before finishing the vacuum lines I decided to add coolant, I removed the thermostat and filled the block through its housing, then topped off the radiator. I had not added oil yet. Went back to work on the lines and after dropping a wrench looked under the truck and noticed coolant dripping out of the top of oil pan, removed the nut and about a gallon of coolant mixed with oily sludge poured out. Took the head back off and looked it over, thought I noticed a hairline crack on the lower front half but only on the surface. There was also in inch of water in cylinder 3-Couldn't see anything else major wrong with it. So now I'm stumped, does this sound like a cracked head to you guys? Should I not have added water through thermostat housing? I hadn't run the engine yet, I'm also curious what to do for damage control. Was thinking about dropping oil pan and cleaning it out and drying off everything that got wet but I don't know if that would be enough. Any help is appreciated, thank you.

millball

Best scenario would have been a pressure test to determine where the coolant was coming from before you took it apart again, but that boat has sailed.

I'd take the head to a machine shop and have it examined.

Cleaning the oil pan couldn't hurt.

L5wolvesf

What were the symptoms before you replaced the head gasket?

ConSeann3ry

There were no symptoms so he assumed the head was still straight. Like the other person said have the machine shop check it for cracks and you should deck or at least check for straightness it if it passes. Could have easily just been a little warped. You need a machinists straightedge if you want to re-use heads without decking. Also you didn't mention cleaning the threads on the head bolts and in the block. Tough to get accurate torque readings without doing that. Also what do you mean extra twist? Just twist it until your torque wrench says it's good.

wyoming9

iTrader: (1)

Just what did you torque the Head bolts to??

I watched some one pour in coolant after only torquing to 55 foot Pounds instead of 65 foot pounds

The coolant just flowed out all over the place

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

The head bolts were not over torqued, they were just full of crud on the treads on generally glued in there. If you did not really really clean the bolt threads and chase the head bolt holes in the block, you did not get proper torque on the head. Now that its apart again, wire brush / polish clean the bolts or get new ones; and get a thread chaser for the block.

Then when you get the head back...... USE Thread Sealant on the head BOLTS!!!!! They go into the water jacket and will do exactly what happened to you. Allow to dry per labeling.

I doubt you cracked the head, aluminum is softer than cast iron, so I think you broke the front cover, find out now. If you did, engbldr is your friend. I also suggest you drop the pan and clean before putting the new cover on. It is so much better to put the cover on, then the oil pan, and then the head. Nice neat, and no leaks. Beware of the oil pump bolts, get them in the right holes for length, or else you will be punished, prepare your wallet. If you have to go this far, get a chain & tensioner too, beware of the colored links and take your time, do not screw this up or you will be punished. If your cylinder head is cut by more ten thou you will need a gasket spacer to make up the difference or a new adjustable cam gear.

Also check the plate on the back of the head, it may need a new gasket after this.

Now hopefully we can stop the grave digging and get your ride running like it should in short order. If you need some help contact me. Be happy to help you over the phone in the evenings.

Update us after you get the head back, and inspect the front cover.

gsp4life

Skypilot has great advice here and is being real generous with the mechanic-on-the-phone offer. Take him up on that.

However, I'm positive that the head bolt threads in a 22r block don't go into the water jacket. I know many engine blocks are designed this way and then sealant is needed. I just cleaned and chased the block threads using a flashlight to check for debris and they bottom out about 1.5" down. Use a very light coat of oil on the bolt threads and make sure every sealing surface is clean enough to eat off of. Acetone is good for the final wipe.

WolfMann

Thanks guys for the solid advice, I did torque it to 60 but the threads weren't as clean as they could've been and I didn't chase the threads in the block, I'll go back over those things. I'll also look into a local machinist, it can be a little difficult since we live so far off the beaten path. Found a procedure in the fsm that involves spraying a dye penetrant on the head to check for cracks, Has anyone tried that before?

gsp4life

I think it'd work great, but no I've never done it and haven't seen a write-up on yotatech that showed the process.

I​​​​​​ had my crank and block magnafluxed and inspected by the machine shop, but dye is a similar-enough concept. It'll let you know if you've got a crack that water can pass through. It won't let you know if the head's warped though. You really need a machinist straightedge because the max tolerance is only 0.015" on the diagonal, iirc.

WolfMann

Hey guys quick update and a few more questions: I cleaned the threads on the head bolts and the block deck, then opted to put the head on and try once more, I torqued the bolts with my torque wrench then double checked with another that a buddy has. Turns out that the calibration on my wrench was way off (must have dropped it or shook it in storage at some point) because instead of 63 pounds the other wrench (an older craftsman) said it was closer to 10. I'm assuming this is why all the coolant just dropped into the oil pan last time. I retorqued the head bolts with the other wrench, put the intake back on and added water. Dropped the oil pan and checked for leaks and found a small drip coming from somewhere in between cylinder 2 and 3. So now I'm wondering how to proceed, I realize taking the head on and off could throw off the new gasket, I'm also thinking that I could've cleaned the head and block better (wasn't quite clean enough to eat off of). Do you guys think it would be worthwhile to try and redo the gasket job? If the head was warped would I be seeing more than a small drip? Also the gasket I had put on was a DNJ, I've seen mixed reviews for these, does anyone have an opinion on them? I am looking into machine shops but theres not much close by and I'm wondering if it's necessary after realizing the mistake with the torque wrench. Thank you again for any advice.

flg8r22

iTrader: (1)

The DNJ gasket that came with my rebuild kit went into the trash. I dont know the exact manufacturer but they look identical to all the failed ones ive seen. I actually went with a new felpro gasket with copper shims this last time.

gsp4life

If you pull the head off, the gasket's junk. Once compressed, it won't spring back like rubber and won't seal well ever again.

I had a warped cylinder head at one point. The main symptoms were that coolant and oil would burn (could see both on the spark plugs). It might've leaked from the head/block interface but I had many other leaks at the time and couldn't tell what was coming from where.

skypilot

iTrader: (1)

That's about what you see with a warped head. Here is a thought, call on of the local race car engine builders and find out who can calibrate a torque wrench for you. No point in going forward with questionable tools, you are just tossing good money / time after bad. See if they will "sell" you a calibrated torque wrench at "65 ft lbs" for a fair price. It will be well spent money. So if you could please stop until you solve this issue.

Now go to engbldr.com or call. Good person who does a lot of business with board members, never read a bad review. Got stuff from him myself, and would buy again. Get his head gasket.

Also there are videos on youtube about sanding your head surface on glass. you can try that or take it back to the machinist and ask to check it for tolerance. Its aluminum, I expect it to be off some.

Since this would be the third try with these head bolts; the racer in me says to buy new just on GP's in case one is stretching and making problems.

WolfMann

Alright guys quick review/update:
1) I had taken everything apart and put the new dnj gasket on, the block and head were not perfectly clean, I torqued it down with the faulty wrench rebuilt and added coolant, all of which dumped into oil pan and was promptly drained.
2) Took everything apart again, dnj gasket was still in place, realized mistake with the torque wrench and used another to put head back on with proper torque. Rebuilt everything, removed thermostat and added water. Water did not rush to oil pan, removed oil pan to check, found small drip between cylinders 2 and 3.
3) (Currently) Removed head, removed dnj gasket, began cleaning process, have ordered new oem head gasket and new head bolts. Performed a preliminary measurement for warp in head and block using straightedge and feeler gauge, things look ok, will double check when completely spotless.

I'm working under the impression that nothing is warped or cracked but that the surfaces were not clean enough last time, and that the improper torque, having coolant rush through and then removing head again ruined the dnj gasket I had put on. I have talked to a machine shop that quoted me 170 to get head cleaned, pressure tested, and resurfaced. This seems like a lot for something I'm not sure is necessary. Although once everything is spotless and measured again I should know for sure. However, if things check out ok I think I'd like to put a new gasket on (with proper torque and clean surfaces this time) and see how that holds up.
Any input or advice is always appreciated, thank you.

gsp4life

Sounds like you have a good plan to move forward.

​​​​​If you have a decent straightedge, you should be able to get close enough numbers to determine whether you need a machine shop or not.

Agree with skypilot about getting a better torque wrench. Even the cheapest 1/2" beam wrench you can find in an auto parts store or eBay would get you really close to an accurate 65 ft/lbs.

WolfMann

Hey guys wanted to update, got the truck up and running, made sure to thoroughly clean head and block, also used a quality oem gasket. Torqued everything proper and she's doing great. Thank you all for the advice and guidance, I'm very grateful for the help and for this Toyota community. Happy wheeling y'all.