Snafu_bohica

Hey guys, new to this forum, but not Toyotas or forums. I have a 1982 Supra and a 1981 Yamaha Virago 750. I work at Toyota, but I don't deal with old cars that often, and my Supra is a case of its own with wiring.

So here we go:
1979 Toyota Hilux
2.2L 20R
4-Speed Manual
4x4
Factory Straight Axle

I bought this beauty earlier this week, the previous owner said it had a problem in the head. I pulled the valve cover and turned the crank with a wrench. All cylinders seemed to build compression and all rocker arms moved the valves appropriately. I couldn't see anything wrong with the head. I decided to put a battery in it and try to start it.

Initially, the only thing that happened was sparks on the positive battery terminal with the turn of the key. The electric fan on a a/m toggle switch works.

I printed out this wiring guide because I am TERRIBLE with electrical. I found out that the fuse box under the steering column had no power, so i plugged that in and then turned the key. I get a knocking from the starter and smoke on the positive post of the battery. I checked the two fuses off the positive terminal, they are both stable. I have a video on my phone, but I'm not really happy with how low quality the Galaxy S2's video quality is.

The knocking SOUNDS like a rod knock, but that can't be because the starter doesn't even turn over. I believe I can hear the solenoid operating, but I'm not entirely sure. I ran out of weather to climb under and pull the starter.

Is anyone close to Issaquah that can let me look at their wiring or to help me run mine? Or can someone send me a few pictures of the starter wiring?

Here is how my wiring is set up:
Battery - > Fender
Battery + [Black cable in pic] > Starter
Battery + [Red Cable in pic] > small electrical box on fender > fuse > Fusebox under dash
(from the electrical box on fender) > fuse > relay? > head lights
Battery + [small black wire in pic] > Electric fan

The electric fan operates with the toggle switch 'ON' and turns off when you tell it to.

Here is the video of the Positive terminal under starting conditions



Thanks, ya'll
-Taylor

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

Something is either crossed up or drawing a hella lot of current on the battery. I would try disconnecting all the leads to that electric fan and then try starting it. Obviously, Don't run it too long without the fan. At least you can determine if it was the fan causing the problem or not. Also check for chaffed wires and bad grounds

Snafu_bohica

I looked around and noticed the wires into the starter are green like a corroded penny. Ill pull that off and clean it up and see how it goes. Unplugging various things from the small box pictured above. It didnt change anything. Still sparks on the positive battery post and clicks from the solenoid... Coild it be a bad starter

Snafu_bohica

Anyone able to make a house call for booze/dinner/money to help solve some gremlins?

RAD4Runner

Congrats on a good find! Cleaning wiring is a good start. Also isolating the fan (altho I do not think it's the issue) like kawazx636 suggests so you're only dealing with one problem at a time.

Knocking sounds like solenoid plunger actuating. Smoke/Too much heat at positive batt terminal suggests

1. Dirty connection between battery and thick starter wire. This could produce too much resistance and heat, hence the smoke. Resistance also limits cranking current so starter would not turn.
2. Too much current because of short in starter.

Suggest you take out your starter and inspect brushes and other parts for shorts.

If you have a clamp-on ammeter like this, no need to remove starter first, You can simply monitor current through very thick cable from batt pos to starter solenoid and compare with that on similar model truck that works well. Need fellow owners to chime in here.

If lower than most, suspect high resistance / poor connection, also bad starter. IF significantly higher than most, suspect short in starter.

Snafu_bohica

> I unplugged the fan power from the battery and nothing changed, one problem down.


> Thanks! I'm excited! I pulled off the starter power and stripped it at work, the green only went about an inch into the insulation from the starter end, I soaked it in battery cleaner at work and wrapped it back up. I cleaned the contact points on both the starter and that wire, then made sure it was tight.


> I have made a little progress. Eating an elephant here. As stated above, I cleaned the starter contacts to the wire and on the wire itself. I then turned around and tried a new method of the orientation of the wires on the positive clamp. I also fully tightened down that positive clamp (used to have it on with the 1/4 turn trick, that's how the negative is on, but it is secure.) In cleaning the wire or rearranging the wires/Tightening the wires to the terminal, I managed to negate the smoke. I got a solid, single 'CLICK' when I turn the key, instead of the multiple clicks. The dash lights are bright when in the 'ON' postion, and the battery holds a 12.36v charge currently, but the smoke being gone is a step in the right direction.

> This was my next step, but once again, ran out of daylight.

> Because my multimeter is a cheap PoS, it is hard for me to understand the readings it gives. It was a $30 as the one I use at work is $300... Work doesn't let me borrow them. I was just going to remove the starter and take it to my FLAPS and have them test it, but ran out of daylight.

Thank you for the input,
-Taylor

RAD4Runner

Cool.
BTW, while you're at it, I think your starter system does not have a starter solenoid, based on schematic, like many Yotas before mid-1986. You might want to verify. What this means? (See explanation of starter system on my write-up) Your ignition switch starter contacts will carry the 10-plus amps needed to actuate the starter solenoid, could get pitted and contat life shortened, and also add resistance to wiring, preventing starter solenoid from actuating properly and cause no - crank issue (sometimes intermittent).

If yours does not have a starter relay, you might want to consider adding one like KidV on t4r.org did.

Snafu_bohica

Talked to the Master Diag Tech at work and we found out I didn't have an engine ground. Now I do, it turned over, but the battery is too weak to continue.

RAD4Runner

Cool to know! Thanks for the update.

Snafu_bohica

Bought a battery from work, plugged everything in. Turned the key, turns over. Sounds like a rock in a clothes dryer. Did a compression test, results weren't too healthy. I think it needs a rebuild. Siiiigh....

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

That compression is way low. Good compression is around 180ish, with 140ish calling for a rebuild. With numbers that low you might have some valves getting stuck open too

Killgore Trout

not to be a vulture, but....hold on gotta finish this circle im flying in......are you going to rebuild it? or part out the engine for $ toward a new motor? im interested in parts and bolts.

Pumpkinyota

If you aren't making good compression across the whole motor, your first step is always a valve lash adjustment. This is a 15 minute job, and I have frequently seen this completely resolve compression demons.

I have seen these motors run (although badly) at just over 90 psi. 130 is about your minimum for proper function.

Snafu_bohica

>I am trying to decide between a $300 total 20R rebuild or a 22R from Craigslist, then rebuild that. I'll probably do what I am doing with my Supra - Rebuild stock engine, then build a bigger beast for the bay. I'll probably at some point put a 22R into it, but after the 20R is running strong. I finished putting my 7mgte for the Supra together, so I have an available engine stand. I'll probably pull the 20R this weekend.

>I can give this a shot - the P.O. said it was something bad in the head. When i turn it over, it sounds like something is REALLY loose. And cylinder 3 has ZERO compression.

It can't be a stuck valve, I've turned the engine over and watched all of them move.

Pumpkinyota

None of the valves have to be stuck, but they could be opening or closing early due to bad valve lash adjustment. This could cause your lack of compression. I'd try this, it only takes 15 minutes. Back the adjuster screws all the way out, snug up the locknuts, put the valve cover back on, and give her a shot. If she runs, warm her up, and re tighten the adjuster screws with a feeler gauge to FSM spec, then re tighten the locknuts.

If this gets her running, you can troubleshoot the noise second.

Snafu_bohica

I'll give it a shot. It would be much easier to diagnose a problem with it running. That's what i was trying to do, then realized its internal.

Snafu_bohica

I pulled the carb and intake manifold. Gonna pull the exhaust manifold today if weather permits. I will probably do EGR delete because i didnt label as well as i normally do.

Snafu_bohica

Pulled the engine... Found the problem...

Pumpkinyota

That's a minor issue.

Throw some JB weld on her, she'll be right!

Pumpkinyota

Just as a guess, was it #3 that had 0 compression?