Paul H.

I just find it so hard to believe that even in this day and age with the horrors of so many lives lost or ruined that people still drink and drive on road and off.
I believe it is one of the most stupid things anyone can do. When will people learn. I am glad that at least Yotatech and its members, at least some of them do, take a hard stand against this.

Ric

isnt that true.
someone once told me, "stuff that will never happen to me, it always happens to someone else"
my reply was: in my eyes, you, are someone else.
he gave me the strangest look. i think it took him awhile to figure it out,

RedRunner_87

I'm glad I belong to Yotech(continue to come even though I have a Jeep). I've been to a couple runs when I lived in Cali and I saw no drinking except for camp. I should take this up with my other off road group and see what their stance.

BruceTS

I've been on many runs here in SoCal and elsewhere..... I don't think I can remember on any occasion that anyone in our group was drinking, if they did they kept it to themselves. After a run in camp, yes plenty were downing a few, to me this is OK, as long as they don't drive afterwards.

As for the accident, it happened, a mistake was made, nobody got injured, it's being taken care of, and the person's involved learned their lesson.

blown4runner96

I was just made aware that some how this unfortunate incident has made its way over here. Honestly I am sick and tired of being nailed to the cross and stoned repeatidly... good lord people, if you can't make an assumption or speculate on motives will it kill you. By the time I got back to my new home threads had been closed, people had been banned and wars had been started... I understand the need to enforce certain regulations on the trail. That is not what this is about, nor is it about drinking and driving or doing anything else that wasn't thought out or irresponsible.

First off, we were never trying to hide or cover up anything. After my truck was totalled, I returned from Moab to my house in Colorado, loaded my belongings up and drove back out to Moab. Loaded the truck up on the moving van and trailer and drove into Reno. I didn't make it back to my new home before yesterday afternoon. With limited internet access, most from a Blackberry driving, we didn't exactly have unlimited internet resources.The subject at hand was going to be dealt with once we were home and off the road. The drama and wars between people could of been avoided to some degree if one of us had been there to deal with it... alas, there is always someone who can't resist conflict and so continues to push envelopes before they can be dealt with in a constructive and informative way...

Regardless, what was done is wrong and people are dealing with the consequences... The subject that you people can focus your energy and resources is how to get drinking on the trail or other actions resolved and handled within your club. By taking constructive actions and putting a hault to pointing fingers or bashing other clubs you can be closer to achieving positive steps in a smaller group and hope they are adopted by others.... TTORA is taking pro-active steps behind the scenes, just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

On a last note, those that construed the comments about Mike on his resignation thread has condoning or approving of his behavior have an ascew perception... Not one of his friends were patting him in the back and saying it ok to drink and drive... They were supporting a friend in a time of need. The consequences created by these actions will be dealt with for years to come. Most of the individuals who replied to Mike know him personally as well as from the trail. To me, if my friend did something stupid I'd be upset but still support them... not the action, THEM. What none of you know, is the true reaction of his friends... non approve or are happy about this event, yet they are his friends and stand by him. Assumptions made in ignorance can only start unneeded drama and wars... My advise step back, and gather thoughts on how to improve yourself, the people you know or the organization you associate with.

I am tired and am happy we are home and everyone is ok...

d0ubledown

im relieved to hear you guys are home and OK. just picked up on the threads over at ttora, and of course this one. too much pointing fingers and shaking heads is just but of course what would the internet BB's be without all the politics and drama?!?

All that matters is that you guys lived to wheel another day, with a valuable lesson learned. n thats what it's all about..right?

life is 10% what happens, and 90% how you react to it. sounds like you n your crew are well on their way to making things better already..and as you said, thats what people should be directing their energy on

good luck to you guys!

BruceTS

The accident was unfortunate..... unfortunately it happened at a very popular location, this incident has made the internet and will eventually filter down throughout the 4x4 community, so expect to hear many more threads about it elsewhere. Just look at the Bronco incident as an example...... You'll be dealing with this for years to come........my advice don't get upset about the postings, simply brush them off.

I'm not holding this against any one person or group, nor will I think different about the people involved, in fact I'd have no issues wheelin with them in the future, lesson learned..... Just remember this issue needs to be discussed, so we all can learn from this and hopefully prevent it from occuring again.

BTW your rig doesn't look that bad, why not make a dedicated trail rig out of it now?

lee

all i have to say is, if a big deal was not made out of this i would have been even MORE upset.

it should be a shock to those who are against drinking on the trail and a big wake up call to those who DO drink on the trail or at least dont stop others from drinking on the trail.

i dont see any victims here at all, besides a nice 04 taco, and the damage to the reputation of wheelers in that area.

lee

yikes... there is some serious cleaning up to do in the clubs you wheel with. 30% is a LOT.

nice.

Intrepid

To briefly address a couple points, as for the who drinks and who doesn't, has anyone read the "drinking on the trail" thread that was posted on this forum? I was amazed at the amount of pro-drink on the trail people here.

In regards to the Mike thing, from what I have read on TTORA in the past, this was a THIRD drinking and wheeling incident, the first involved rolling his truck in pismo, the second involved breaking on the Rubicon, and now this. I have no tolerance for drinking and wheeling to begin with, nevermind any mercy for the THIRD accident. If he has done it three times we know about, he has done it more, and I tend to agree with Lee, if the president is drinking and wheeling, I bet others are too. Hell, just looking through some nor cal and cottora pics you see people standing around obstacles with drinks in their hands...although I am sure none of them are driving... Regardless, he apologized, stepped down, and is seeking help. The only thing beyond that that we can ask for is that he enforces TTORA's no alcohol or drugs rules.

Nic, get used to it, rumor has it you were drinking too, but you drove up, and didn't want to drive down, so Mike did. Since this is so high profile, you will hear a lot about it, but I don't doubt for a minute that you will love the attention. If you didn't want it getting out, don't post pics on the internet, or pics of you holding alcoholic beverages on the internet.

http://www.norcalttora.com/gallery/album288/aal
http://www.norcalttora.com/gallery/album288/aam

Especially when the pics immediately after it are you driving.
http://www.norcalttora.com/gallery/album288/aap

SteveO

Whoa..... there is certainly going to be some fallout fromt this incident for some time to come.

lee

yeah just dont nail the innocent victims to the cross or stone them

Corey

iTrader: (1)

Good summery
100%

midiwall

I don't agree.

I think ALL of us - "us" being the off-road community around the world - will suffer from this incident.

lee

true, i didnt want to be accused of being dramatic or hysterical thats all

Dailydriver2

Not all Greenies drink on the trail. Please do not stereotype all Coloradans as
such. Your assumption is totally inaccurate.

slosurfer

I think you misunderstood who he was call "Greenies". He used the term for hard core environmentalists who will use anything they can to get more trails closed. NOt Coloradans who drink while offroading.

Corey

iTrader: (1)

Yes, you completely misunderstood what I said.
Greenies are the ones who want to shut down our trails and keep them open for hiking only, and not have gas powered rigs on them.

In other words, there are large groups out there who rejoice at the closure of our trails, and will use this incedent as ammo against us.

Mark, when I said 100%, that was in agreement with Lee on the other stuff.
Of course we are all victims from this, especaily if it gets more trail systems shut down.

I am 100% against drinking and driving weather on the street or trails.
I have lost to many freinds due to drunks killing them on the road, and that is also how I lost my '91 Toyota do to a drunk T bonering it.

Albuquerque Jim

I wasn't going to get into this thread, but if this is true....

Once is a mistake.

Twice is stupid

Three times is a serious problem, IMO

It seems to me that his friends, the ones who stepped up in his defense, should be helping him through some sort of counseling program, and not be so worried about what some web wheelers think.

For the record I am not innocent. I was the lucky recipient of a DUI about 5 years ago, my BAL was .09 the legal limit is .08. I spent a night in jail, almost lost my truck, had to pay a fine, pay for a lawyer, attend some stupid classes for 6 months and get out of the dog house with my wife. It was an incident that I am not proud of, but I have changed my behavior and I do not drive if I have had more than 2 drinks, it's not worth it.

04 Rocko Taco

I definitely agree with the last paragraph, I never got a DUI, but there are a couple of times I probably should have, looking back, I realized what a mistake those were, and am vehemently against Drinking and Driving. Whether it be on the trail, or on the street.

I dont know Mike, and I dont know his habits, but if the three incident thing is true, I would be VERY VERY concerned.