kaiberg

thats what i was figuring...but when i got it apart the drum was full of oil indicating the outer seal was also shot and the bearing was all over the place...i figured better just do it right and have peace of mind...

mikedog

keisur,

Thanks. I think I understand how everything bolts up to the modified HF press crossmember to R&R the backing plate/bearing retainer.

I'm looking forward to any further info you have on those DIY jigs you made from Home-Depot parts. I assume you need the jigs to R&R the bearings after pressing out the backing plate. Correct?

Also, why did you have to replace the whole backing plate/bearing retainer on your rig to avoid any further troubleshooting? Were they that troublesome with leaks that you had to get new ones for some reason? Just curious to know if I should be worried about mine too.

What about the lateral runout on the stock Toyota axles? Do they commonly go out of spec for some reason on these trucks? I'm wondering if this would be another problem area that could cause lots of issues with difficult to diagnose leaks as well.


kaiberg,

Dang, that's insane. Why does Toyota charge so much for repairs like this? Even their OTC parts are a lot of $$$. You know how much they charge for a gear shift knob on a 4sp '88 PU? $85 dollars for a little round ball! How about a gas door keylock? $55 dollars! Don't even get me started on what they want for the trim-moldings around the front windshield.

I know the tarrifs placed on their "genuine" factory parts do escalate the prices here in the U.S. to some extent, but what they want for repairs at the dealers is downright obscene. Who do they think they are? Ferrari mechanics? LOL!

You don't get a dayoff until Christmas? Man, that sucks. You gotta stop working so much! Oh yeah, I don't know if you checked already, but take a look at the breather valve on top of the axle. You never know, it might just be a clogged breather valve that's causing the axle leak.

keisur

I yea, I forgot to go measure those. I'll try and remember tonight. the only time you need the HD jigs is during the assembly to press the bearing, abs rotor, and retainers on. once you get the bearing cup/bearing/backing plate sub assembly of the axle you take a ballpien hammer and lightly tap the 4 studs out and the backing plate falls right off the cup. but that is only if you are replacing the cup or the plate, leave them together otherwise. mine is all apart because I wanted to find out how to take everything apart. I basically had all new parts, built a new axle, then jack my runner up and swapped the old for the new. I did use the original wheel cylinder though.



Toyota chef's replaced the seals 5 times under waranty and I replaced them 2-3 times on the drivers side alone so I finally got tired of doing that and plopped $600 down for all the new parts to build a new axle assembly. Reason I replaced the axle was that this shop down the street who I paid $25 to rebuild the axle the first time I did the work. they bent my shaft because rather than grinding the retainers and pressing the bearing off they used a sledge hammer and a rod to beat the buhjeeziss out of the stuff and then the used a torch to melt the bearing off! so the axle shaft got bent that way. as long as a side street hack hasn't touched your axle I don't think you should worry about replacing the shaft unless you did some major rough wheeling and fubar'd it. I can't prove that the guy actually bent it so I just bought a new one from an online toyota dealer for about $215.

Bennito

What material of construction (and general size) are the seals? I have yet to pull my axle and look (that's this weekend).

Maybe I"m overly cautious, but I don't want to get the axle apart then be looking around for a last minute seal.

Reason why I ask is I bought the o-ring, black rubber seal and a metal/rubber seal. Seems odd that they'd be 2.5-3" diameter seals. Does that seem right?

Thanks for the help

transalper

Good idea. I hope you can get this resolved finally and not have to deal with it any more.

Here's a pic of the inner rear axle seal - the diameter is around 2.75". Mine have never leaked, but I did replace the inners while I had my axles out for a diff swap. I have never seen the outer seal up close - i'm a cheapskate and will only replace the outer seals if I need new bearings.

keisur

you can see the outer seal in these pics:

Hyperlite

I had Micheal Morris Racing press mine. I brought him the axle, outer seal and bearing and he pressed the ABS sensor and retainer off, poped the new seal and bearing and reused my ABS ring and retainer all for a wopping $30 cash

JDeMello

Ok I'm in the middle of doing this right now. KEY WORDS! CUT OFF THE RETAININ RINGS! Spend the 101.00 and buy all new ones!

I just spent the last two hours pryin mine off! I sure hope my axle isn't bent!

Thanks for the write up! Next time I wont be so damn cheap and I will buy the stuff up front!

Jason

Hyperlite

You need to press the retainer off:pat: The axle is probibly OK, it only took Michael Morris 10 minutes to press everything. If I had the cash I would have got new retainers

JDeMello

Well Now I see that! Damn this has been a bad day! I started cutting it, as I'm doing so I'm thinkin man this is dangerous so close to the axle cutting it. Then I say screw it this should press off but his instruction said cut it off. So I press it off to find I put a nice gouge in my axle. I hope that doesn't cause any problems.

In the mean time I'm going to look for a new axle. The more I look at this one I think Midas did what I'm doin and they screwed up the axle it self. Midas changed the seals before I got the truck and I think they did something to it? but who knows it may work fine. Back to work now!

JDeMello

Not sure I understand the measurments on the pic. I have it all apart right now and I'm gettin ready to put it back together. What exactly am I measureing?

I see in the pic 4.811 in? Is that to say measure from the end of the axle the mounting surface the wheel mounts to TOOO the edge of the last retaining ring you put on? And that measurment is 4.811 plus or minus 0.039in?

Thanks.

Anyone else can reply if they know?

keisur

you are measuring the distance between the face of the wheel flange (where the studs stick out) and the center of the OD of the innermost bearing retainer (the one that the seal should seal on. That's the way I did it. but I also just measured how deep the seals lips were and found the measurement from my own datums. I went from the mating surface of the bearing cup flange to the center of the retainer and then compared that to the mating surface on the axle housing to the lips of the seal, just because I didn't want to rely on that measurement in the diagram in case mine was different for some reason.

looking back, I think the diagram I posted IS from the wheel flange to the innermost edge of the innermost retainer. it is better to not press it on far enough than to press it on too far. trust me on that one so you may just get it close, like 130 mm and then test fit it into the housing, you should be able to feel the retainer slip into the seal but if you don't get it pressed on far enough it will bind on the thing on the inside of the housing inside of the seal, the part that has 4 round cuts in it at 90°.

JDeMello

Damn, I'm done but I think I did press it on too far! Damn! I think I did it till just before it stopped. Damn DamN damn damn! I hope I don't have to do it again!. I put a new outter seal in there so hopefully that will help keep some of the oil back..lol. the other one was toast.

Hyperlite

Hmmmm... I could be wrong but I think the the inner seal seals along the retainer ring. As for the distance is should about 1/8th of an inch between the abs rotor and the backing plate. We just eyeballed it, but I was with a profesional NASCAR engine builder.

keisur

you aren't wrong. I thought I stated that the seal seals on the retainer. you might need to re-read the above posts or something. In the pic above with the pry bar in it you can see the retainer where the seal had rub for the life of the retainer. you see the shiny mark along the diameter of the retainer being pry'd? that's where the inner seal seals.

"eyeballing" it can get people like us who aren't pro engine builders, that is why I've posted how I did it and it is best NOT to eyeball it here. no offense, but that is what got my dealer in trouble from why he couldn't do mine correctly "6" times. I did my own and spaced it correctly and no more leaks. I did "eyeball" it the first 3 times I did it though and couldn't figure out what the heck was going on, so I decided maybe doing it right was a good way to try it for the 4th time.

I also don't know what you are talking about the retainer being between the bacfking plate and the abs rotor. it's on the inside of the abs rotor toward the differential (splined) end of the shaft, not between the backing plate and the rotor. Are you sure you were working on a 4runner or taco?

DeMello, you may be able to use a pry bar or a dull chisel to wedge it between the ABS and the retainer to move the spacer back. don't wait to long though because the spacer will set and you'll just have to cut it off and put on a new spacer.

Hyperlite

eye balling is not good for the average mech. or the better mech for that matter. Michael Morris is one of the most skilled person I have ever met. He builds custom heads from blocks of steel for the majority of Nascar racers. When he put it back together he left the correct amount of space, but told me that if it was not pushed on correct then he would press it further. His shop is 1/4 mile from mine. My termanology is off I ment to say that the space is between the ABS ring and the wheel bearing. Sorry I have read your previous post, it's just that JDeMello asked for some other openions.

keisur

no problem. pressing the retainer one really doesn't require much force. I have actually just used the coupling pictured above and just slammed it down on the retainer to sort of ooch it on further if it wasn't quite far enough after the press work. so you doen't really need a press but it helps. you could also do it the way backyard types do it and just work your way around it with a brass punch and a ball pien hammer but that is risky since you could possibly knick the edge of the retainer and that might tear the seal when you shove the axle back in.

I know what you were talking about with the nascar guy but I just wanted to stress that it wasn't good to do just because that is really risky, especially if you eyeball it on too far to begin with, then you're faced with either cuting it off or chancing that you can ooch it back some with some sort of a wedge device or pry bar. we're on the same page.

keisur

Just to clarify, Toyota sells the retainers at only $11 each, only 2 are needed per side so that's only $22 for new retainers. Where'd the $101 come from?