99_Runner

So you want to put a modded 3.0 up against a 3.4, huh something doesn't sound right. I don't think that putting a modded engine up against a stock one is a fair comparison. It's like saying, "My Tacoma with a supercharged 3.4 walked all over a Tundra with a 4.7." Now take that Tundra, slap a supercharger on it and the Tacoma wouldn't have a prayer of keeping up.

Lets put apples against apples and not compare them to oranges.

Ganoid

All this turbo talk sounds like work
Why not just mount the snail to the front side of the motor and hook a belt to it?
There are several good quality internally lubricated models to choose from like powerdyne and paxton just to name a few. If I could come across a suitable SC for reasonable I would be more than willing to start fabbing up some brackets.

It just seems too risky to me to start fooling with exhaust driven turbos on an engine that already has problems with exhaust valves and heat build up. I can have boost and long tube headers with a SC and I dont have any glowing turbos to worry about. Seems like an SC would allow you to have your cake and eat it too

The only advantages I see to a turbo over a SC are the altitude affects and the lower cost of the actual compressor. I think compressor cost can be misleading when you consider the exhaust fab chaos needed in our crowded engine compartments.

94x4

Because then it's not a "snail", it's a "supercharger" and superchargers downside is they're inherent "drag" that they put on the engine in order to create they're boost as they rely on a pulley to generate power... a lose-win situation, wherein the "win" side of the equation greatly overshadows the "lose" side, making it almost imperceptable, but it's there...you pay to play.

Whereas a turbocharger uses the engines waste byproduct, i.e., "exhaust", to generate it's power from, putting no drag on the engine at all.
This equates to a "win-win" situation...or...play and play.

Ganoid

So If i just place a small restrictive impeller in my exhaust system I will notice no performance difference at all compared to the exhaust with out it??

The phrase "you gotta pay to play" applies to everything even turbos

Centrifugal Super chargers have Almost no parasitic drag untill thy start to make boost at wich point the gains out weight the losses. Not trying to start an argument but its a chevy VS ford thing with the only real differences being cost/fabrication and performance at altitude (turbo wins the Alt argument)

phorensic

Yeah, turbos drag on the exhaust, while superchargers drag on the crank pulley. The difference is that turbos are more efficient.

AgRunner06

Exactly.

CoedNaked

This argument has little to do with the actual conversation though - can forced induction (whether it be SC or TC) work on the 3.0 without blowing HG's all the time???

Bumpin' Yota

T4 compressor/housing attached to a T3 turbine/housing... Honestly you are going to be into the BIG t3 area on the hot side to keep from loosing top end flow.... I know of a 3vz-fe running a GM8 turbo (later model of the GM4 in my avatar) which is through and through a T4....and stock equipment on chevy 6.5L turbo diesels from 93-99...then the duramax replaced the poor, tired 6.5L...

Well for one those idiotic TTY bolts that toyota uses and the nonasbestos HGs are at fault.... If we could find copper or steel HGs and head studs we'd be set! There is one guy running 17psig on his and has for a few thousand miles and no issues... He is running stock top and bottom on his engine Really the PSIG doesnt mean a whole lot as opposed to the power he is making....and if the internals can handle that power...

Like you, if I did this, it would be bored 0.050" over and then recieve 100% forged internals (save possibly the crank), which I have already found.

phorensic

I have always been wondering what size turbo I should use. I have been under the impression that a T3/T4 would be on the smallish size. Figured I would be better off on the smaller side so that I don't spool at 4000 RPM. So you are saying we should go with a T4 so the exhaust turbine isn't too small? Interesting....

I always base my turbo thoughts off what the supra guys are all talking about, because their motors are 3.0L also. I believe the first upgrade, if you don't want to get crazy, for a 7mgte or 2jzgte, is going from stock duals to a T4. If that is correct, then a T4 with the correct turbine A/R should put us in the sweet spot. But I don't know, maybe someone with more experience can chime in and suggest a turbo size, with specific turbine A/R and compressor trim, thanks.

About the HGs. I think the revised Toyota OEM HG would be OK for relatively low boost. Past that I think we need to search for a company willing to do a custom metal HG for us.

Some guy is boosting his 3vze to 17PSI?!?!?!?!?! Stock internals!?!?! How do we get more info on that machine!?

TRunner

Your post got buried quickly! In any case, the time involved in removing the heads is what drives up the price. Calling the dealer costs about $1000 anyways, so it's no wonder why they were so high. If you can pull your heads yourself and buy the parts (valves, shims, springs, head gasket, etc..) yourself you will save about $700-$1000. Then you find a good machine shop (not through the yellow pages, but from a mechanic or person you trust) and have them do the valve job. BTW - now is the time to contact engnbldr.com to get the over-sized valves as any other "breathing" mod you do is almost useless without these and it will not cost you anymore to buy those over factory stock ones. If you notice, all the folks who have done many mods and never gotten the over-sized valves complain that they don't notice much difference and the ones that did get em are rather satisfied.

94x4

I had proposed the use of the T3-T4 primarily out of concern for the stock internals and not wanting to over tax them or incur heavy expenditures on this as I'm trying to come up with something that everyone can do without having to hock their homes, but also from past experience with it and it's proven ability to reduce the infamous turbo lag on the 4-banging "tuners" I've wrenched on by the smaller impeller "spooling up" the larger turbine at a quicker rate (if I've got that right, it has been a while since I've done any performance mods of this caliber), thereby defeating the lag, although from your current post Bumpin', it looks like I need to be thinking LARGER...?! Afterall "bigger is better" and it is a 6-cylinder and not a 4, not to mention your knowing someone out there pumping 17psi with stock internals (definitely need more input on that Bumpin', plleeezze, or maybe that's just the "boost" fever getting to me.

"Bumpin' "..."phorensic", as for the notorious "head gaskets" and the inferior "head bolts", I believe that I mentioned in an earlier reply post to you (Bumpin') that I could get some copper stamped to fit, especially since it will be necessary to reduce the compression a bit (but only a "bit") in order to install a turbo in the system and the "head bolts" can be readily supplied by "ARP", I believe.

I will concede that I, too, would'nt mind completely building the engine, but then that would defeat the whole purpose of this exercise, i.e., boosting the 3.0 on the cheap and/or proving that it can be done (which someone might already have...need more info there Bumpin'). Although, if I do end up blowing it up, then I'll rebuild it.

phorensic

I, too, will boost it until it blows and the rebuild with forged parts. However, I plan on porting the head before I boost. No need to put in forged parts if this elusive 17psi 3vze is true. Please, oh please give us some more info on it!

94x4

Alright, come on now "Bumpin' Yota, give it up and tell us MORE, please.

You have'nt exactly been forthcoming with info that you apparently have, "apparent" in that you knew of the pressurized oil switch on the front drivers side of the block, the space for a 3" downpipe, as well as the 3.0's compression ratio (which I guess could easily be common knowledge, it's just that it happen to come up in the same discussion).
So why are you holden out ? Don't you want to share ? I can tell you that WE want you to share!

94x4

This thread is not and should not be viewed as an "argument", as this thread is an open discussion welcoming the exchange of ideas, insight and/or experience towards the common goal(s) of an inexpensive solution(s) to remedy the enigma that overshadows the 3VZE, i.e., "3.slow".

To this end, all input is both welcomed and appreciated and I thank you all in advance.

Bigblock

my # 5 ex burnt.

94x4

And we needeed to know that on this thread for what reason ???

No offense, just curious.

Bumpin' Yota

Patience is virtious!! Just got back from driving down to a friend's wedding in Islamorada, FL. Gotta luv those 9 hour round trip drives!! LOL

iirc the 3vze CR is in the low 9s. 9.2:1 or something like that, not at all disfavorable to boost, provided you watch the pinging/knocking/detonation... I mean hell, look at the 5vzfe - 9.6:1 cr and people are running 8 to 10psi (iirc) on that with no means of AIT cooling!! (If you ask me thats insane because that trd roots supercharger is prone to heat soak, ive been told, and the hotter the intake charge the more your EGTs go up and more prone to detonation and pinging you are....)

While I have not sat down and calculated the 3vze's swept displacement after volumetric efficiency, the proposed lbs/hr of air and said P1/P2 on several turbo compressor maps, I have for the new 4.0L engine from toyota and that sucker needs a mid range T4...

I do know that our 7mgte breathren upgrade their ct26 with a larger compressor wheel after doing their bolt ons, and after eliminating the fuel cut....They also complain about the stock ct 26 running out of flow at upper ranges 5200rpm up. Often they will get a 10 to a 12* exhaust turbine clip to increase flow.... This is what is leading me to my educated guess....

As far as the turbo 3vze, they are around. Go search on pirate 4x4 and you will find a turboed 3vze post. It's about 6 or 7 pages long and in one of his later posts he says he was running 17psig.

REMEMBER, 17psig is not the whole equation!!! What's more important to engine life, or lack thereof, is the volume flow and consequently power produced.

Pressurized oil switch? There is a pressurized oil port at that location exactly like the 5vzfe. Ill edit back with a link of the pic of a 5vzfe's unused, pressurized oil port.

I do like the fact that we can get those copper HGs!! However that brings up a few other issues, mainly cam to crank timing. By tossing in an extra 0.040" on each head you are effectively making the belt shorter and changing the timing slightly, so adjustable cam gears I think would be needed for optimal results.

The only supplier of ARP studs that I can find for the 3vze is DOA racing - and you do NOT want to deal with DOA!!! just do some searches here and you will find tons of info pertaining to why. Secondly from posts about the 3vze ARP head studs (from DOA so I dunno if they are genuine ARPs) was that the threads were cut into the bolt instead of rolled on. A cut thread will weaken the bolt...

And let me say that I am not a mechanic and I am by no means whatsoever an expert. What I'm sharing here is essentially 'book knowledge' and unfortunately thus far no hands on aside from studying our turbo diesel engines.

Here is a pic of the pressurized oil port. In the photo you see the oil filter, then the gray OEM oil pressure sender pointing at you, and the last thing you see is Gadget's electrical oil pressure sender (large gold looking can) in the port I am tlaking about. This wasnt the pic I was looking for however...



Worthy of note is Gadget's oil temp sender that is on the side of the oil pump to the left of his OPS...

phorensic

Well, the 4.0L needs a mid-range T4, but what do WE need? I'm assuming a T4 on the conservative side of compressor trims and A/Rs. Like maybe a 46 trim compressor and .64 A/R?

94x4

Thanks for the input Bumpin', all knowledge (book or otherwise) is appreciated here as it is necessary to "flesh out" all the details to avoid running into those overlooked instances of .
Why can we not get the studs straight from "ARP" ??? I've already heard about "D.O.A." from the site here and know not to deal with them, based on others past experiences.
I'm going to pop over to pirate4x4 to see what I can find there and thanks again for the referral, as well as your input and I apologize for my insistence (just gotta' know, gotta' know right now), I'll be waiting (patiently this time) for what all you come up with when you do get a chance to sit down and map it all out.