stickmanmitch

OK 22re guru's, I need your help.

I've been creeping here for a while but this is my first post. I have a '88 4x4 truck with 240xxx miles I bought over the summer. Ran fine for a while, had trouble on cold starts and would stall out if I drove through water too fast, and would get around 17 mpg. I ended up getting a bad knock so parked it until I got it fixed(happened about september). Before I took anything out, I did a compression test (cold) and was getting super low numbers (30-70) with a wide range between each cylinder. After adding oil though the spark plug holes, highest compression was around 120. Deciding to pull the engine after that, I found the source of the knock was a nut that fell off a rod bearing cap destroying the rod. I ended up getting the block bored 1mm over, replaced pistons, one new rod, the others refurbished, replaced the crank and had it polished, new main and rod bearings. I'm confident the internals and timing are put together correctly to the the FSM specs.

The engine is put back in and everything hooked back up, but the engine still won't run and I have no idea why. Closest I've got was holding the AFM open and holding the gas pedal to the floor, but was super rough like it wasn't firing right or missing then died when I let off the gas. I've had it backfire and cough while playing with the timing. I don't know what to do and need to get it running agin before school starts.

So far, I've tested/changed:

-the fuel filter, I know it's getting pressure so not the fuel pump
-measured the resistance across the cold start injector, tested good
-tested the AFM the same way (to the FSM)
-put in brand new spark plugs and ignition wires
-checked all the fuses
-won't start with starting fluid
-pulled out all the spark plugs and grounded them to the block, they all fire right
-put a squirt of oil in each cylinder and tried again
-made sure the timing mark on at TDC matched the distributor and the camshaft
-all the sensors but one black one near the throttle body are plugged in, I can't find it's home
-checked the PCV, it's clean and works like it's supposed to
-all the vacuum hoses were double checked
-a full tank of new gas was put in in september
-i can smell gas on the spark plugs and out the exhaust
-the ground on the motor mount is on the frame side


Other ideas I have are
-checking the valve lashing, but never took the rocker assembly apart so I don't know why it would be off
-I read the 60 amp fuse could be bad on the bottom but I wasn't able to pull it out and it looks fine from on top
-I haven't checked the compression since the rebuild
-I read there should be a ground on the intake manifold, but have one connected to the valve cover, does this need to be moved?
-there's a hose near the charcoal canister coming from the firewall about 1/2" OD that I can't figure out where it goes
-when we were adjusting the timing trying to get it to start sometimes we would pull the distributor cap off and the rotor would be 180* opposite of where it was supposed to be, is that normal or is the rotor jumping around? Do I not understand something?


I'll add anything I've missed, or please correct me if I missed something. I'm really hoping to get my truck running again soon. I learned a lot from reading old posts from you guys.

85TurboRunner

Sounds like you're 180 out.

snobdds

Yea, your timing is not correct and your fuel injectors need to be grounded on the intake manifold. That groud wire comes out of the main harness that also feeds the fuel injectors.

Newby

I'm new to the car tech so I'm reading and learning from what you post here, guys. Thank you so much.

stickmanmitch

Checked the 60 amp fuse today, re adjusted the valves, tested the tps, tested the coil pack, switched out the coil pack with another, switched out the distributor cap and rotor, connected the ground on the valve cover to the intake manifold and all I got was backfires and almost starts. I asked another guy today and he said timing was probably off too, so I guess I'll check that tomorrow. I'm confident I put the timing chain on right, the silver dots point away from each other and are directly on the silver links on the chain. Is it possible I put the crank pulley on 180* backwards? It's also been backfiring out the exhaust and intake at the same time, does this point to timing too? Other thing I'm thinking is the injectors might not be plugged in incorrectly or in the wrong order.

I also heard a crunch after I adjusted the valves today I'm real worried about. I'm thinking it was the piston hitting valves or the starter slipping on the flywheel after the workout it has gotten recently. If I don't get it figured out tomorrow I think I'll take it in and admit defeat.

stickmanmitch

Could using a crank out of a 92 in my 88 have a notch 180 opposite of where it should be?

snobdds

All 22RE cranks should be the same. Again your timing is off. Remember there is two timing settings...cam timing and ignition timing.

I would read up on 4crawler's site about timing chains, it has timing in there, and go from there. Also, post some pictures up of what your cam sprocket looks likt at TDC. We can point you in the right direction...

Duckie

I had no start issues after my timing chain job, turns out my ignition timing was way off. My rotor would be between contacts when it was attempting to spark. I ended up pulling my valve cover back off and setting the engine back to just before TDC, and then installing the distributor so as to be set directly on the 1st cylinder contact. Started up beautifully.

stickmanmitch

Thanks for the help everyone. We re-checked the timing today, both valves closed on cyl 1, the piston was up top, the silver link aligned with the dot on the cam sprocket and I'm 100% sure it lines up on the bottom too unless it somehow slipped, and the rotor is dead on number 1 in the distributor. Best we got was a sputter, ran for a few seconds, and backfired. I double checked the injectors were correct, and connected the ground on the intake. Also tried with starting fluid and it didn't make much of a difference.

My connection isn't strong enough to upload the video and pictures but I'll do it as soon as I can.

Bassmastry101

iTrader: (1)

Could the distributor be a tooth off? Or the plug wires misrouted?
Get the engine to TDC, and the timing mark on the crank and timing cover should be a 0. Looking at the front of the engine, the nipple on the cam sprocket should be at the top, if not at 11:30. Then on to the distributor.

hemsingd

What does the black plug with no home near the throttle body look like? I'm concerned that it might be the TPS.

stickmanmitch

Alright, I feel real dumb... after quadruple checking everything I searched the forum again. Turns out I had the firing order wrong, thinking it was 1-3-4-2 I switched 3 and 4 and it started right up!!

I have a coolant leak to fix and the exhaust is popping under acceleration at low rpms but smoothes out later, looking it up now. Thanks again for yall's help.

Here is the video of the first drive:
http://youtu.be/vN-v6StP_is

We plugged the black plug back in and now there's a green plug that remains unplugged. Tomorrow we will get a timing light and make sure timing is 100%, then troubleshoot from there. Any ideas would be well appreciated!

Oh, and the "oil leak" from the video was from not tightening the valve cover, so no worries there.

85TurboRunner

Is it the green connector in the upper right of this picture.



Image courtesy of 4Crawler.

stickmanmitch

It's not that connector, I'll post a picture when I can. I'm getting three codes- 4,5 and 11, and still having that gnarly popping/backfiring under acceleration. Is that pinging? I'm getting a timing light tomorrow and try setting it at 0*BTDC (it's at 5* now) and see if it helps.

AverageTanner

Does anybody have any experience timing an engine that's been bored over? Maybe we need to advance/retard the cam gear?? I've been helping StickMan from day one and I really wanna get this running right, I'm sick of carting him around

stickmanmitch

This is the unplugged plug (the green one right by the valve cover bolt). I've tried switching it with a black one that has the same shape with no luck. I'm thinking now there was residual carbon on the heads that's preventing the valves from closing all the way, or hot spots on the pistons are causing predetonation. I'm going to try adding octane booster to the gas today and checking the knock sensor connections. Hopefully it changes something.

85TurboRunner

that one goes to the sensor in the front of the lower intake plenum right next to the brown one.



the plug shape is different in this picture but it shows where it goes.


Picture courtesy of YFZsandrider.

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Yep, Coolant Temp Sensor, very important and could cause some issues for sure, not being plugged in.

Far as 0*BTDC.... NO, that's not correct. 5*BTDC is the actual factory timing spec for these(unless you have a beefy cam). Start the motor, then jump TE1 and E1 plugs in your diagnostic port..... Then set timing to 5*BTDC.

I know it seems hard to believe, after TRIPLE CHECKING things, more than once, lol.... But trust me, it's possible to have the dizzy off a tooth and have serious issues, yet looking it over it seems perfect. If you put the dizzy in at 12'o'clock(the rotor pointing/12), as you slide it in it should fall back to #1 Spark Plug Wire Local. You should see a 'notch' in the dizzy drive gear, a dimple rather, just before/counterclockwise from/ where the gears contact each other(Cam and Dizzy Drive gears).

Far as the timing marks.... That's crucial that it be done before slapping the cover back on, etc..... and with the CAM gear Notch at 12(dimple at 11:59) and crank mark at 6..... you should be golden, granting you get the dizzy in just right before turning it over AT ALL. HOWEVER,..... The timing being set without the TE1 and E1 being jumped, as I said, will also give you an inaccurate base time.

Not sure if you have an IACV on this, but that also has a light blueish, sometimes green connector that connects to it, behind/under the throttle body(IACV has 2 large vacuum hoses coming off it and coolant lines as well).

Now that you have the firing order just right and you're CERTAIN you have the chain installed correctly.... it's just a matter of 'gremlin hunting'... and trust me, I can tell you about that! hahaha.

Plug in that coolant temp sensor connector and make sure the one next to it(Cold Start Injector Time Switch) is connected as well.... and then go from there with the timing, yeah?

ChefYota4x4

iTrader: (5)

Personally, I'm thinking the 'bored over' factor is irrelevant. CAM size can change timing, slightly, but not enough that you'd have big time back/misfiring or pinging.

If it's a stock cam, I would stick with .008 and .012 on the valve lash and 5-8*max BTDC on the base timing.

stickmanmitch

Ok thanks that's what I figured. I read that could be causing me problems. What's confusing me though is there's two sensors (cold start is brown and coolant temp is black) but three plugs, one green, one brown, and one black. Looking at those pictures I'll try the black and green instead of brown and black. Where does the brown go?