Timing keeps jumping
#1
Timing keeps jumping
Hello everybody,
I have been working on a friends 91 4Runner 3vze. It had 283k when he bought it. So far we have done full tune up, valve cover gaskets, plenum gasket, camshaft and crankshaft seals, all new timing components, water pump, rear main seal, clutch, starter, alternator, battery and new oil and filter of course. He has been driving it and put about 5000 more miles on it with an oil change at about 4000. Just resently it wouldn't start. Sounded like it had no compression. Checked the timing belt and it appeared to have skipped a bunch but no signs of teeth missing. Bought another belt and got it running again. It drove great that night with no issues. The next morning again it wouldn't start. This time the timing was still good but motor seemed seized. Very hard to turn over by hand. Eventually got it started and did a motor flush. Oil was extremely dirty. He again drove it away and 4 days later same issue again. No start and sounds like timing is off again. Any ideas?
I have been working on a friends 91 4Runner 3vze. It had 283k when he bought it. So far we have done full tune up, valve cover gaskets, plenum gasket, camshaft and crankshaft seals, all new timing components, water pump, rear main seal, clutch, starter, alternator, battery and new oil and filter of course. He has been driving it and put about 5000 more miles on it with an oil change at about 4000. Just resently it wouldn't start. Sounded like it had no compression. Checked the timing belt and it appeared to have skipped a bunch but no signs of teeth missing. Bought another belt and got it running again. It drove great that night with no issues. The next morning again it wouldn't start. This time the timing was still good but motor seemed seized. Very hard to turn over by hand. Eventually got it started and did a motor flush. Oil was extremely dirty. He again drove it away and 4 days later same issue again. No start and sounds like timing is off again. Any ideas?
#2
If it keeps happening then someone is doing something wrong. The belt should never skip teeth. Ever. If it does, then it wasn't installed correctly. And/or nobody's figured out why it did it the first time. Hence it keeps happening. Something critical is being missed.
That's pretty much all I can say with any certainty, based on what you're giving me. This is not a common problem. So there is no common answer.
That's pretty much all I can say with any certainty, based on what you're giving me. This is not a common problem. So there is no common answer.
#3
If it keeps happening then someone is doing something wrong. The belt should never skip teeth. Ever. If it does, then it wasn't installed correctly. And/or nobody's figured out why it did it the first time. Hence it keeps happening. Something critical is being missed.
That's pretty much all I can say with any certainty, based on what you're giving me. This is not a common problem. So there is no common answer.
That's pretty much all I can say with any certainty, based on what you're giving me. This is not a common problem. So there is no common answer.
#4
Since you flushed the engine oil and it came out very dirty, try flushing it again and see how it looks. I'm wondering if a previous owner went a very long time with out changing the oil.
#5
Look...what I'm getting at is this. Without properly diagnosing why the belt skipped the first time, you can't expect it to not happen again. And again. That's what I mean by installed correctly. A critically important part of fixing something is knowing how/why it broke. Until you've got that figured out you're pretty much wasting your time.
It's happening for a reason. Trust me. There's no magic involved.
It's happening for a reason. Trust me. There's no magic involved.
#6
Look...what I'm getting at is this. Without properly diagnosing why the belt skipped the first time, you can't expect it to not happen again. And again. That's what I mean by installed correctly. A critically important part of fixing something is knowing how/why it broke. Until you've got that figured out you're pretty much wasting your time.
It's happening for a reason. Trust me. There's no magic involved.
It's happening for a reason. Trust me. There's no magic involved.
This is why I am asking for any ideas of what it could possibly be. I felt like you're still trying to say it's installed incorrectly. It is on correct or it wouldn't run fine for a few days then stop. This is the reason I am here. Any other person want to help me out cause this guy hasn't.
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#8
Yes everything was brand new installed when we did it the first time 5000 miles ago. Checked it the second and third time. It's the spring and bearing tensioner not the hydrolic one. It's still putting good tension and bearing is still spinning freely.
#10
#11
Did someone forget to tighten the spring tensioner? Because that's THE ONLY way the belt could ever skip teeth.
I can hear the reply now. "What do you mean tighten the spring tensioner?"
The bolt that keeps the spring tensioner from moving. You haven't mentioned that it's been tightened and couldn't be causing the problem. I was going to ask about it. But I'm trying to give your "foreign auto expert" 40+ year mechanic father the benefit of the doubt.
But like I've said already. Somebody did something wrong. We're just trying to figure out what.
Why do I keep saying that? BECAUSE IF YOU DO THE JOB 100% CORRECTLY THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN!!!
I can hear the reply now. "What do you mean tighten the spring tensioner?"
The bolt that keeps the spring tensioner from moving. You haven't mentioned that it's been tightened and couldn't be causing the problem. I was going to ask about it. But I'm trying to give your "foreign auto expert" 40+ year mechanic father the benefit of the doubt.
But like I've said already. Somebody did something wrong. We're just trying to figure out what.
Why do I keep saying that? BECAUSE IF YOU DO THE JOB 100% CORRECTLY THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN!!!
#12
Did someone forget to tighten the spring tensioner? Because that's THE ONLY way the belt could ever skip teeth.
I can hear the reply now. "What do you mean tighten the spring tensioner?"
The bolt that keeps the spring tensioner from moving. You haven't mentioned that it's been tightened and couldn't be causing the problem. I was going to ask about it. But I'm trying to give your "foreign auto expert" 40+ year mechanic father the benefit of the doubt.
But like I've said already. Somebody did something wrong. We're just trying to figure out what.
Why do I keep saying that? BECAUSE IF YOU DO THE JOB 100% CORRECTLY THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN!!!
I can hear the reply now. "What do you mean tighten the spring tensioner?"
The bolt that keeps the spring tensioner from moving. You haven't mentioned that it's been tightened and couldn't be causing the problem. I was going to ask about it. But I'm trying to give your "foreign auto expert" 40+ year mechanic father the benefit of the doubt.
But like I've said already. Somebody did something wrong. We're just trying to figure out what.
Why do I keep saying that? BECAUSE IF YOU DO THE JOB 100% CORRECTLY THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN!!!
#13
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If I read you right, when (or just before) this problem recurs, the motor is very hard to turn over. Seems like that's a clue. Next time it seems stiff, I would suggest immediately tearing it down, removing the timing belt, and finding out which of the three rotating shafts (crank, or one of the two cam shafts) is resisting turning. That should give you more insight than you have now.
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02-11-2016 01:03 PM