4Nmissile

I have just recently decided to do an EFI swap into my 1985 Toyota pickup xtra cab. It's an 85 cab on a 4Runner frame (unknown year, but the wheels mount about the same distance as a typical xtra cab of my generation). Originally, it had a 22R carb engine in it, but was converted to diesel (Toyota engine) by someone who owned it before me. Then it was bought by a guy in Indiana who chopped the bed off and made his own "bed" with custom wiring for rear lights, turn signals, fuel pump, etc. I bought it with the diesel with the plan to convert it to an 85 EFI 22RE. I don't have the tools to do this so it is in a shop right now. The 85 22RE is in. I also got an 85 engine harness, 86 cab harness, new alternator, new starter, new oil pressure switch, and have all of the wiring hooked up correctly. Everything is hooked up except the O2 sensor, but that is because the cab harness wire going to it was cut at some point and I don't have a factory plug to splice onto the wire. The knock sensor also had to be spliced as that wire had been cut. Other than that, everything is connected.

Now on to a little bit of an update. I have the Circuit Opening Relay and the Starter Relay. When I went in to the mechanics today they were still working on getting it to fire. He said he went over everything 3 times. There is power going to all the grounds, all the main systems, the resister pack, the engine (ground), and the wires going to the ECU. The lights all come on, and when the key is turned to "Acc" all the dash lights come on. The heater blows too. I'm pretty sure I have the Main relay, EFI relay, and the EFI fuse circuit, although I'm unsure as to what they look like, and I don't have the cover to the interior fuse panel. Does anyone have a picture of these fuses/relays where they are plugged in?

The odd thing is that when everything is hooked up and he turns the key to start it, you can hear the "Circuit Opening Relay" click, but the engine won't fire or turn over. When he unplugged the "Circuit Opening Relay" and ran around it (or however he did it, I can't remember if he just ran it to the metal on the side of the truck) it would crank over, but not start. Also, he is getting no power (according to the tester) at the wiring on the cab harness going to the "Starter Relay" next to the resister pack. Everything else on the passenger side of the cab harness has power (according to the tester), just not the Starter Relay wiring portion. I don't know if it is the wiring or the plug that connects to the Starter Relay plug.

What do you think? Is the Circuit Opening Relay working since there is a clicking coming from it when the key is turned? What about the Starter Relay wiring on the cab harness? Where does the starter relay go to on all ends of the wiring? I have read on here that checking the distributor is a good thing to do as well when it comes to starting problems.

4Nmissile

I did forget to mention that I have an external fuel pump on it, not an in tank pump. I am re-using the diesel tank, which didn't have an in tank pump. Also, after doing some reading I found out that the relay clicking is what it is supposed to do. What I am wondering is, if they can rewire the connection from the starter relay to where ever it goes on the cab harness (ECU possibly?), then with that connection completed if it will start up? Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas? I want to get it up and running before the snow starts falling. It seems like it is so close too. My Yota just wants to get back out on the roads.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Here is a few links that could help.
https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...ild-up-252300/

Check post #664 https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...9/index27.html

4Nmissile

Wow. Thanks Terry. There is a lot of good info in those posts. And having the pictures helps too. I will give printouts of the pics to my mechanic and let you know what he uncovers.

I'm still wondering about that starter relay though. He said that it wasn't getting power from the harness wire, which I had been debating whether taking the wiring wrap off to find a cut or something in the wire would be the problem. I know there are grounds on the engine, but I'm not sure how many or if they are in the correct spots according to those pics. Do you think not having the correct placement or number of grounds would keep one of the relays from getting power or completing that circuit? Since some of the 85's did not have a starter relay (all the trucks I've seen with it are 86 or newer), is there a way around it? The cab harness is the only piece I have for the truck that is a different year than 85.

4Nmissile

I was gonna let the mechanic take my truck to an auto electric shop here in town because they don't do a lot of auto electric (what with my wiring problem and all). However, when he called the guy to let him know what it was (including that it had gone through at least one engine swap), the auto electric shop owner said he wouldn't touch it. Why did my mechanic say it had been swapped? %*#@, I never would have said that, just that the engine wouldn't fire. Anyways, I decided to go down there myself and see if I could talk to him in person. At first, I talked to one of the workers (not the owner) and he set me all up for an appointment. Although, I didn't mention that the truck had gone from carb to diesel to EFI, but I did let him know that everything in the truck was EFI. I didn't mention anything about an engine swap, just that the truck wouldn't start and they weren't getting power to the starter relay, and the jumper for the clutch start cancel switch. As I was getting ready to leave the guy comes jogging out and says that the owner said he wouldn't do it because it had gone through too many conversions. What a racket. Especially since I told them that everything was for EFI, all harnesses, the complete engine, sensors, everything like it rolled off the factory line. He still wouldn't touch it. So that left me with having to chase down a broken or bad wire along the starter relay, but since the truck is at the mechanics it's a little hard to do that. I decided to just search for an 85 EFI harness. I did manage to find one within a day and it is now at the mechanics. They are going to get to putting it in near the end of this week hopefully. I just hope it works as it doesn't have the starter relay or the clutch start cancel switch. Both of those problems are eliminated with this harness.

One question I have as I swear I read it somewhere. Do you need the column wiring that connects to the turn signal stalks on the column from an EFI truck to complete any circuits (other than cruise control) to get the 22RE to fire up and run? I do have the column wiring and the gauge cluster with tach. I have just been waiting to put them in myself. That and the gauge cluster shows 300K+ when my truck only has a little over 200K+. I need to see if I can turn back the tach to where my truck is at before I put it in.

Anyways, that is where I'm at right now.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Toyotas do love their ground wires. I would get all of those on and working. You just mentioned about the turn signal combo. I seem to recall that you will need it. Alot of signals do go from one end and back out. I am sure 85 and 86 are the same harness. I do know that since both came EFI and non EFI that there are some big differences between the two even in some common circuits that both share (lights,blinkers,ect...). Make sure it is the EFI one.

4Nmissile

I dropped off the steering column wiring with the turn signal stalks today. I'm getting quite a collection of wiring with this project . Now I've got an entire diesel engine, bell housing to mate it up to a G52 (and probably a W56) tranny, full cab/body harness (whether it's for the original carb engine or diesel is unknown), and the engine harness sitting in my garage. At least the 22RE went in like cake, as has every other part I bought for it. Now it just comes down to the wiring working. I'll keep you all posted. By the way, soon I'm going to be listing that diesel and everything else I have for it up for sale. It is basically everything you need to get it in the 85 generation trucks (and probably 4Runners) and have it running.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Just curious as to why you are going away from the diesel? I have heard that the Toyota non turbo diesel is weak. The ones I drove overseas were plenty powerful and got great mileage. My long term goal is to make my runner diesel just for the mileage reason as one day they will have us at $5 a gallon gas.

4Nmissile

Mainly I am going away from it because I was having trouble getting it started not long after I bought the truck. I had changed out the fuel filter and that seemed to help for a little bit, but then it started dying on me about every 10 to 15 minutes. I would lose all power. Plus, last winter I couldn't get it to stay started once the temperature dropped below 25 degrees F. I had nowhere to plug in a block heater at the time (I do now, but when I'm at work it would sit in the lot for 8.5 hours unplugged, and probably would have trouble getting started in the cold). When I drove it to the mechanics to get the engine swapped it died 3 times and I had only gone about a block from my house. I had to have it strapped to my friend's dad's truck and be pulled to the mechanics. Once they got going on the engine swap, they discovered that the external fuel pump had gone bad. Ironically, my truck would actually be running right now if I had just kept the diesel in it and switched to a new fuel pump. But I wanted something that I could keep started in the cold weather. Not to mention I have no idea how many miles are on the diesel I now have in the garage, but it isn't the most powerful. It did get great mileage when I was able to drive it though. I had a few problems though as there is a hole in the floor where my shifters are at. The metal plate was removed before I bought it and the floor had been cut a bit around the stock hole, which makes me wonder if the cab had started out as a 2wd. A piece of rubber was put over the shifter and transfer case shifter, but diesel fumes kept coming in the truck. Not fun. Also, my diffs are both welded as the guy who had it before me used it for trail riding. Since the truck would only go 55 mph in 5th I figured the diffs are around 5.29 or higher. I am unsure though as I have not had the diff housings apart. I just think the gas engine will be more beneficial for my daily driving here in Ohio. I do have a pair of 4.10s that will be going into it so I'm not running the RPMs as high as can be. Not trying to destroy the truck once it finally gets running.

Where did you drive them overseas? I wonder if they used a different engine. My diesel engine looks similar to pictures I've seen on 84 and also 85 diesels from the "Hilux" style trucks. Don't know for sure.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

The ones I got to drive were in Afghanistan. But they sell them everywhere but the US, see them in South America, Europe, Austrailia.... We are missing out on what is available. Just like the VW bug, just because you couldnt buy one after '74 they were still sold elsewhere. I have seen 3rd gen Runners identical to what have only diesel powered and the newer trucks have manual trannys. We are missing out.

Because of all of the safety and emissions the we require on them, the price for one that is coming to the US is significantly higher the for the same truck elsewhere. They haven bought it into this going green and safety, and seem to be doing ok. We are doing it to ourselves.

The same pickup here is called a High Lux and a Runner is called a Surf. Not sure why the name change.

4Nmissile

I had always heard that the VW Beetle was continually made in other countries. A friend of mine said that you could still buy them new in Mexico and other places. Honda and a few other vehicle manufacturers change the names from country to country due to cultural references, and sometimes because the original name is a bad word or phrase in another country. I have read in a few car magazines that a few foriegn car makers have had horrible sales when they don't change the name because of what it means to another country. Skoda is one of those manufacturers with their Octavia, originally known as the "Laura". Mitsubishi has the Pajero, which in Spanish can be viewed as "liar", or "wanker" (sorry if that is not to be used on the forums admins). Just using it as a knowledgable fact reference. Needless to say, sales for it weren't that high.

I know what you mean though about the US missing out on what car manufacturers have to offer. More powerful engines in some cars, better specs, and a host of other things depending on the vehicle would be great if they brought them here.

4Nmissile

The 85 cab harness worked. My truck started . It drives pretty good too. I still have the welded diffs (5.29 gears I believe) in it so it won't go much over 55ish, but I'm getting the two 4.10s put in this coming week. When I put it in 4wd though it has a tendency to bounce like I'm driving over logs when I'm on slightly snow covered roads. I don't know what that is about.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

Good to hear you got your truck running. Got any pics of it? I plan on starting a restore on an 85 extra cab on January 11th as that is when two of my other restores just happended to work out that way. I am still looking for ideas on which colors I want to go with.

4Nmissile

I do have pictures of it. I just haven't gotten them posted up yet. I will be starting a build thread sometime soon. The engine runs good, but when I'm sitting at idle it tends to sound kind of like a top fuel dragster sitting on the start line. I'm not sure why it sounds like that. It drives good while moving, and it doesn't act like it's going to die while idling. Perhaps it has to do with my external fuel pump setup? In the spring I'm going to get a stock tank with internal pump. The only other thing is when it's in 4wd and tends to hop like a bucking horse once I get over 20 mph. Could this be due to high geared diffs? I wouldn't think it's because they are welded. Scares me when I think of driving over snow and ice though when it bounces. I keep thinking that it will cause the truck to lose it's weight balance on slick surfaces and cause me to lose control.

How many projects do you have Terry? Mine is currently a beige color (factory), but a friend of mine says I should paint it yellow. I don't know what color I really want either. I have some ideas though.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

With your axles locked, it could get dangerous on slick surfaces. Once you get them back to a factory setup, I think your fears will go away. Do they have matching gears on both ends? It would really make your tcase growl if they werent. Also I made the mistake of only replacing two tires of the same size but differnt brands. Each brand has their own idea of what a certain size is and doesnt necessairly match up to other brands.

Do your rear springs sag or are they bottomed out? Hitting a bump can cause then the hit the bumpstops and possibly cause more of a bounce. One reason for the ZUK mod. It made a huge difference in my 88 Runner.

I helped jason in tn paint his runner yellow. Turned out real sharp. It doesnt show to well in the pics, but when up close, the paint looks deep. It is real transparent. Link>> https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f199...5/index38.html

I am actually getting down to one project. My wifes 88 Runner is mostly done. I am leaving it up to her to upgrade it to where she wants it to be. I am having to fix the tranny right now in it, but am waiting for warmer weather.

The truck that I am going to be spending the next few years on is almost complete but will never be done is my 86 Runner. I basically need to freshen up the interior and a rear bumper and it will be done as far as restoring it. I have plans for it to be one that is well beyond stock and nice in about every possible way there is. Nothing even close to what it is now.

I was fixing up the 88 pickup for myself and then came across my 85 extra cab. I am 6 feet tall and this being a rarer truck, I changed horses in the middle of the ride. I was going to sell my pickup and my brother found out and wanted it. He has it now. He is going to fix it up a little at a time. He is just driving it for now and plans on doing alot more to it after the spring as he has alot going on for the next few months. I think come April, you will see him doing more to it. I will be doing most of the work to it for him as he has helped me out alot on different things.

Back to my 85, I am not in the solid axle crowd, but more into it being a rarer truck. Fuel injected and solid axle is a one year only. Being an extra cab makes it more comfortable. I will be starting the 85 on January 11th as that is when I started my runners and to keep it all the same and easy to remember. Still havent decided on colors myself, but want something that looks like it could of been stock but different in a little ways. It will be just one clean looking extra cab with a nice set of wheels,interior,and paint.

My 88 Runner is at $3500 and is the most expensive build I have done, but spread over 2 years, hasnt been to costly. I havent added the cost of my 86 Runner right now, but I am only allowing about 1500 to 2000 for my 85 truck. I will do alot of bargain hunting on ebay and c-list. I spent $10 on a coil and igniter and found the rear tray for $20 about a month ago.

I try to keep my allowance for spending at about $25 a week average. When I spend, you will see alot of no spending and alot of busy work shortly there after such as cleaning, sanding, just tweaking on some of the smaller things. I am able to do most of the work myself. These truck can be built on a cheap budget, just got to look for deals and be willing to get in and do it yourself. When I get this one done, I will find something else to work on. Keeping the couch warm just isnt for me.

4Nmissile

Just so I'm correct, when you said "axles locked" in the first line of your last post, were you meaning welded diffs? You have to have the axles locked to use 4wd don't you? The diffs do have matching gears. The PO said he welded both himself. Although, I am going solely off of what he said, I have never felt the front and rear trying to go different speeds. Nor have I ever heard any sort of chatter from the T-case or rear/front end. The tires are all the same brand, however, they are getting a little worn. I could use a new set to be honest, but my current tires aren't going to blow or be slicks anytime soon.
My springs front and rear seem in good shape. Neither appear as if they are sagging or bottoming out. It only really seems to bounce when I am on the gas above 20 mph. Plus, it does it none stop while I'm on the gas. Imagine driving over dips in the road that are around 3 or 4 inches deep and spaced out at exact intervals. That is what it is like.

My 85 xtra cab is one of those fuel injected, solid axle trucks as of now. I'm not sure how much I want to do to it mod-wise, but I have a few things I know I want to do to it. I took some pictures a while back, but the camera was set to large images so my pictures on photobucket are too large to post. I believe I can go into the camera and change the sizes by coping them into a new file. Then I will be able to get some shots of the truck on here like I've been wanting to do.

I was looking through a few of your posts and reading up on some of your builds. You do a lot of work yourself which is cool. I am slowly building a tool box and knowledge base to be able to work on my vehicles myself. The engine transplant I just had done was a little more extensive than I was able to do by myself, plus I was on a time crunch to get it done before winter hit.

Terrys87

iTrader: (1)

It could be terminology from different parts of the country, but the way I understand it is when I see the word "locked" I am thinking diffs are welded.

This could be another wording issue, the hubs need to be "locked", dial twisted to the "Lock" position. With the hubs locked, you stil wont have 4WD until the transfercase is "Engaged" meaning the stick is either in 4 High or 4 Low. Then both axles should be turning. Also just because both axles are turning, doesnt mean all four tires are providing a source of movement. One on each end is doing the work and the other one on each end is just along for the ride, or just freewheeling. That is where all the lockers and such come into play which I really dont understand real well.

When the axles are welded together then both tires are working on the same axle, but makes it not something you would want on the street. In some cases on wet or slick surfaces it can cause more harm then good as one tire might spin and the other having traction will turn the truck one way or the other.

Where you said the PO welded them himself is what is making me think he welded to have one or both axles to always be turning instead of one freewheeling. I would think that could cause some of the bouncing you are talking about over 20 mph, but not sure.

If you stay stock, and do the work yourself, it isnt nearly as expensive as I was led to believe. I dont have the skills for welding nor the tools. My tools are the very basics. The first 5 or so trucks I did body work on I did all by hand. No electric or pneuamtics tools at all. I finally broke down and bought an electric hand sander from a pawn shop for $7 and what a difference it made on time and saving my arms alot of wear and tear.

Still kicking myself in the butt for being such a cheapscape on that one. But that is one thing I do like about a project. If the funds are available, then I can buy the materials or tools, if not, they just have to set. There is always something that can be done when tools or materials arent available.

Another thing I like about having a project is it doesnt have to be done in a hurry and is not stressful as when a daily driver goes down. A daily driver being down is stressful to me even it is something minor or something that I have done several times as it is needed. A project, you can do at your on leisure time. Another thing about a project is no payments and doing my best to put the repo man out of business. A project is a great way of relaxing. I really think more people need to find a way of unwinding and it doesnt have to be working on trucks. Sometimes I enjoy a break from working on trucks.

If you can keep your goal in mind and not rush it but stay at a steady pace at whatever speed you determine, it will get done eventually. I like to take a junk truck and make something of it. The way that I learned most of my mechanicing was thru a Haynes Manual. I didnt have the funds to send to a shop or wait forever to get the funds for a shop.

One thing I will be learning on my 85 is how to rebuild a front axle. Never done one before, and have never seen one done before. I have found alot of info on Yotatech and on the net so will be doing alot of studying when I get to that point. I have a Haynes Manual and recently did get a Factory Service Manual off of ebay for $30 I think that is what I gave for it. I just jump in and do it and that is about the only way to learn.

Eventually I will start a build thread on my 85, but that is one thing I do like about Yotatech is I have only ever had to ask a question once on the homepage and that was about a painting issue I was having. Not to many do painting on here, but about anything else, I have enough people that I can send a PM, ask on their thread or even make a phone call thru and they will get me out of the jam I get myself into at times.

There are all kinds of talents on here and alot are willing to jump in and give it their best shot. One of these days when I can get a welder, which is a whole new area to me, there are some here that will give all the information my little pea brain can handle.lol.

If it is a daily driver, it might not be as much fun as like you mentioned it is a time crunch, but if you can make it a project, or have a back up available so when it does go down, it makes it so much more enjoyable. I could buy a nice truck if I wanted to but that wouldnt be any challenge to me. I could of had a nice little runner for $1200 but it really didnt need much at all. It would of been one that I would of just fixed and sold.

noodle85yoda

looks like an interesting project. you drive every day with a full spool front and rear? does it pull? i had a welded rear and a true trac front and it pulled like nuts, im running it open open now but i want lockers again.

4Nmissile

You were right then about the welded part. When you said axles I wasn't thinking of the diffs. I originally come from import cars (not a ricer, but a true enthusiast. I'll get my 97 Eclipse posted up sometime). With those when referring to axles we were talking about the shaft going to the wheel. The diffs are welded as when I turn the front wheels far you can feel the tires running at the same speed. One tends to bounce or rub a bit. The bouncing when in 4wd is different though. It literally feels as though the truck is bucking off the ground a bit. I figure it might have to do with the diffs though. The truck is my daily for now, but my fiance and I are going to look into getting a Subaru Impreza sometime soon just in case my truck or her vehicle needs repaired. Plus, with the Imprezas being Awd they are great year round.

Noodle, it doesn't pull that much just because the diffs are somewhere in the 5.29 range. I'm unsure as the PO welded them, but even he didn't know what they were. He used the truck to go trail riding, and welded them for more use offroad. The truck will only go around 55 mph on my speedo (that's with 31s). It does not feel like it will go anymore, but the gearing makes the truck feel as if the power is getting used at lower speeds. I have some 4.10s and will be getting them in soon. I figure that will help out tremendously for gas mileage, highway speeds, etc.

Here is a picture of my truck. (Finally, lol)

It kinda looks like a DIY crawler right now, especially with those wood plank bumpers. (I just wanted to have legal height bumpers here in Ohio in case I got pulled over). Those will be coming off once I get a tube bumer setup for the front and rear. That back "bed" will also be getting upgraded and altered a bit. Once the money becomes available that is.

Those tires in the picture are 36s by the way. They are not on it right now. I'm going to sell the 36 inchers (all 4). I'd like to get a set of 33 in BFGs.

rokblok

iTrader: (1)

Could it be that the rear shackles can't move due to the plank? Causing the springs to load and push the truck up to unload instead of the shackle moving back. Make sense? Just a thought...

Or is the wood mounted to the shackles? Hard to see....