Gas Tank lift & clearance

4Yoter · 09-02-2009, 01:55 PM

I want to raise my gas tank up from the stock position on my 1991 4runner. I have a 2" lift and woud lift to gain more clearance without replacing the stock gas tank. Also does anyone have a link about raising the bulking crossmember under the transfer case or a less bulky (yet still strong) replacement for it
Thx

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4Crawler · 09-02-2009, 02:23 PM

Not as easy on a 2nd gen, at least if you plan to retain the rear coil suspension:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri....shtml#GasTank

Here is an option for raising the gas tank on a 2nd gen 4Runner that avoids the rear suspension brackets:
- http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/gas_tank/

And lots of t-case cross member options:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...l#TcaseXmember

tc · 09-02-2009, 04:29 PM

How badly do you want to do it?

4Yoter · 09-02-2009, 11:28 PM

Prtty bad cause the trails out here are prrty rock filled. I think ima go with the crossmember from budbuilt

http://www.budbuilt.com/new/dual_cross_members.html

Unless i can find one for a cheaper price, but i like the design of the budbuilt.

Another question was that in the 1st gen 4runner there is a aux mounting point for the gas tank. what do u guys think about if I were to mount the gas tank on the top of the hoarse collar instead of it being on the inside of it.

4Yoter · 09-02-2009, 11:31 PM

Or there is also the cross member from 4x

http://www.4xinnovations.com/pages/d...ossmembers.htm

Except i wold still like a skid plate on the bottom of that one.

4Crawler · 09-03-2009, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Yoter

Another question was that in the 1st gen 4runner there is a aux mounting point for the gas tank. what do u guys think about if I were to mount the gas tank on the top of the hoarse collar instead of it being on the inside of it.

With the rear coil suspension, some of the control arm mounting points sit above the gas tank and raising the tank in place is quite difficult.

4Yoter · 09-03-2009, 11:44 AM

gaahhhhh The tank sits way to low for my liking ugh ill figure something out

AxleIke · 09-04-2009, 10:43 AM

Mine us up out of the way:

Duckie · 09-04-2009, 02:12 PM

A Tucsonan! I'm also interested in way of getting it up and out of the way, but i'm gonna wait until I have another DD. AxelIkes build thread is aweosme if your curious.

tc · 09-04-2009, 02:28 PM

Still need a skid on there Isaac ... and you have that new plasma cutter to break in ...

AxleIke · 09-04-2009, 03:03 PM

Meh, I'll get the skid there eventually. The plasma will certainly make that easier.

I'm also putting in more fuel pickups (snow mobile) in the tank, as well as redoing the high pressure side with SS flex line and -6AN.

Matt16 · 09-11-2009, 06:45 PM

AxleIke, do you find the truck to be tippier with the new suspension? Your panhard is at quite an angle and thus IIRC your roll centre should be quite elevated and thus tippy.

AxleIke · 09-13-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt16

AxleIke, do you find the truck to be tippier with the new suspension? Your panhard is at quite an angle and thus IIRC your roll centre should be quite elevated and thus tippy.

No, its not tippy at all. High roll centre is good. You don't want a low roll centre.

tc · 09-13-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxleIke

No, its not tippy at all. High roll centre is good. You don't want a low roll centre.

Huh? Care to explain this one, cuz it goes counter to everything I know about suspension design ...

BLKNBLU · 09-13-2009, 09:12 PM

Here is another idea to kick around. Starts on post #2.
http://www.yotatech.com/f88/fillsrun...-heavy-132060/

AxleIke · 09-14-2009, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc

Huh? Care to explain this one, cuz it goes counter to everything I know about suspension design ...

Roll center is the point at which the body wants to rotate around the axle. A low roll center equals LOTS of body roll, especially on side slopes/off camber. A high roll center is more stable. Its sort of hard to describe on the net, but if you do it with your hands, you'll see what I'm talking about.

On a three link like mine, the roll center is in the middle of the panhard rod.

This thread is a great read, but for a quick, and better explanation, check out post 33:

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthrea...re#post1853820

tc · 09-14-2009, 12:06 PM

I think that poster's last sentence says it all ...

Here's an article from a published authority, although, he doesn't quite boil it down as far...
http://www.neohio-scca.org/comp_clin...namics2007.pdf

... and the article I referred to when designing mine ...
http://www.avalancheengineering.com/july2003.htm

I can tell you I dropped my roll center quite a bit and the truck is way more stable now.

AxleIke · 09-14-2009, 12:37 PM

Mine feels very stable with the higher roll center. Think about it using your hands, both facing palm down on top of each other, separated by a few inches.

Imagine a line along the top of your lower hand. Imagine your lower hand is the axle and the upper hand is your body. If you rotate about this imaginary line, you will see that your upper hand (the body) has signifcant side to side motion.

Now, do the same thing, but imagine the line going down the bottom of your upper hand. This would be a high roll centre. As you rotate about that, notice that the body stays MUCH more centered over the axle, and thus is more stable.

AxleIke · 09-14-2009, 12:46 PM

Also, if you read through a lot of the other link threads, people are going for high roll centers on all the buggy builds, to gain stability.

AxleIke · 09-14-2009, 12:59 PM

Also, to keep in mind, a 3 link has a roll center: which is located at a height equal to the midpoint of the panhard rod.

In a 4 link, the interest is more in the roll axis, and keeping it as flat as possible. You've done that by double triangulating the links. Your roll center should be equal to the height of the midpoint of your upper/lower intersections, which is likely higher than mine. But, with the double triangulation, you will have a fairly flat roll axis, which is good.

09-02-2009, 02:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 7,832	Not as easy on a 2nd gen, at least if you plan to retain the rear coil suspension: - http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri....shtml#GasTank Here is an option for raising the gas tank on a 2nd gen 4Runner that avoids the rear suspension brackets: - http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/gas_tank/ And lots of t-case cross member options: - http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...l#TcaseXmember __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club Last edited by 4Crawler; 09-03-2009 at 12:33 PM.

09-02-2009, 04:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,376	How badly do you want to do it? __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

09-02-2009, 11:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
4Yoter Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 70	Prtty bad cause the trails out here are prrty rock filled. I think ima go with the crossmember from budbuilt http://www.budbuilt.com/new/dual_cross_members.html Unless i can find one for a cheaper price, but i like the design of the budbuilt. Another question was that in the 1st gen 4runner there is a aux mounting point for the gas tank. what do u guys think about if I were to mount the gas tank on the top of the hoarse collar instead of it being on the inside of it. __________________ • 91 4runner • 22re • 1" BL • sliders (soon)

09-02-2009, 11:31 PM	#5 (permalink)
4Yoter Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 70	Or there is also the cross member from 4x http://www.4xinnovations.com/pages/d...ossmembers.htm Except i wold still like a skid plate on the bottom of that one. __________________ • 91 4runner • 22re • 1" BL • sliders (soon)

09-03-2009, 11:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
4Yoter Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tucson, Arizona Posts: 70	gaahhhhh The tank sits way to low for my liking ugh ill figure something out __________________ • 91 4runner • 22re • 1" BL • sliders (soon)

09-04-2009, 10:43 AM	#8 (permalink)
AxleIke Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 4,888	Mine us up out of the way: __________________ 1987 Mutant 4runner\|Slightly Modified\|Lacking general build direction -Lifts and Tires look cool at the Mall, Lockers and Gears look cool on the trail. -Internet Nice Guy

09-04-2009, 02:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
Duckie Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 78	A Tucsonan! I'm also interested in way of getting it up and out of the way, but i'm gonna wait until I have another DD. AxelIkes build thread is aweosme if your curious. __________________ 1986 4runner SR5 5speed 22re 155k original miles 4" Pro-comp lift\|BFG M/T KM 33x12.50x15\|ARB Front w/ Warn Winch\|Aisin manual hubs Need: Avid Offroad sliders/Budbuilt skid and crossmember/rear bumper/4.88s/rear aussie/Zuk coil mod Ask me why they call me Duckie.

09-04-2009, 02:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,376	Still need a skid on there Isaac ... and you have that new plasma cutter to break in ... __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

09-04-2009, 03:03 PM	#11 (permalink)
AxleIke Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 4,888	Meh, I'll get the skid there eventually. The plasma will certainly make that easier. I'm also putting in more fuel pickups (snow mobile) in the tank, as well as redoing the high pressure side with SS flex line and -6AN. __________________ 1987 Mutant 4runner\|Slightly Modified\|Lacking general build direction -Lifts and Tires look cool at the Mall, Lockers and Gears look cool on the trail. -Internet Nice Guy

09-13-2009, 09:12 PM	#15 (permalink)
BLKNBLU Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Gilbert, Arizona Posts: 1,667	Here is another idea to kick around. Starts on post #2. http://www.yotatech.com/f88/fillsrun...-heavy-132060/ __________________ 86 4Runner, custom Sonoran Steel rear bumper, 4Crawler 1" body lift, rock sliders from Richard Stubbs, rear Lockright, SAS w/ARB My build thread. http://www.yotatech.com/f66/blknblu-s-sac-155872/

09-14-2009, 12:06 PM	#17 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,376	I think that poster's last sentence says it all ... Here's an article from a published authority, although, he doesn't quite boil it down as far... http://www.neohio-scca.org/comp_clin...namics2007.pdf ... and the article I referred to when designing mine ... http://www.avalancheengineering.com/july2003.htm I can tell you I dropped my roll center quite a bit and the truck is way more stable now. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

09-14-2009, 12:37 PM	#18 (permalink)
AxleIke Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 4,888	Mine feels very stable with the higher roll center. Think about it using your hands, both facing palm down on top of each other, separated by a few inches. Imagine a line along the top of your lower hand. Imagine your lower hand is the axle and the upper hand is your body. If you rotate about this imaginary line, you will see that your upper hand (the body) has signifcant side to side motion. Now, do the same thing, but imagine the line going down the bottom of your upper hand. This would be a high roll centre. As you rotate about that, notice that the body stays MUCH more centered over the axle, and thus is more stable. __________________ 1987 Mutant 4runner\|Slightly Modified\|Lacking general build direction -Lifts and Tires look cool at the Mall, Lockers and Gears look cool on the trail. -Internet Nice Guy

09-14-2009, 12:46 PM	#19 (permalink)
AxleIke Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 4,888	Also, if you read through a lot of the other link threads, people are going for high roll centers on all the buggy builds, to gain stability. __________________ 1987 Mutant 4runner\|Slightly Modified\|Lacking general build direction -Lifts and Tires look cool at the Mall, Lockers and Gears look cool on the trail. -Internet Nice Guy

09-14-2009, 12:59 PM	#20 (permalink)
AxleIke Contributing Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 4,888	Also, to keep in mind, a 3 link has a roll center: which is located at a height equal to the midpoint of the panhard rod. In a 4 link, the interest is more in the roll axis, and keeping it as flat as possible. You've done that by double triangulating the links. Your roll center should be equal to the height of the midpoint of your upper/lower intersections, which is likely higher than mine. But, with the double triangulation, you will have a fairly flat roll axis, which is good. __________________ 1987 Mutant 4runner\|Slightly Modified\|Lacking general build direction -Lifts and Tires look cool at the Mall, Lockers and Gears look cool on the trail. -Internet Nice Guy

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