texcat101

I have just finished installing the 4.3/700r4 swap and will need to fix my driveline angle problems that have plagued me since the spring lift and shackles, way before the swap.
The drive flange on the T' case is 3 degrees, the pinion flange is 10 degrees and the rear drive shaft is 15 degrees as it sets.
Using shims it seems I should rotate the pinion from 10 up to 14-15 degrees to match the driveshaft angle (pinion pointing at T'case) and then install a double cardon or CV style u joint at the t'case.

Am I on the right track?

Is there a better way?

bigarms23

are you running a single tcase or duals but try adding shims or talk to my friend kevin aka 4runnerchevy on marlins board cause he did the same swap

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

If you can figure out 4.3L swap you can figure out drive line angle. "if you can dodge a wrench you can..." LOL. OK expresso in afternoon good.

If you plan on wheeling it why use shims? Do it right the first time. Make sure to gusset your perches if you by prefab'd, your OEMs are a good example.

But from my expereince you need a CV shaft. As your at max angle, if your got a trailer queen that max speed is 15mph run it otherwise. So this is the time to decide if you want any other drivetrain mods: lifts, crawler boxes (I have no idea of all the gm options Atlas II or Staks whatever)

DeathCougar

iTrader: (23)

The PROPER way to do it would be to cut the spring perches off, and adjust the pinion angle, then reweld them back on.

texcat101

So if I shim or cut and reweld the perches to rotate the pinion up 4 degrees that would leave it at negative 1 relative to the driveshaft which would allow for the 1 degree move upward when torque is applied?

And that would be an ideal angle for the CV/ Dbl Cardon type joint?

BTW, what is max angle?

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Here's the scoop:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/Shims.shtml#FAQ1

And with using a CV shaft, realize that the drive shaft angle will reduce as you tip the pinion flange up, so be sure to take that into account.

Max. CV angle, assuming a Toyota type CV would be in the low- to mid-20 degree range for an unmodified IFS CV or in the mid-30's for a solid axle or modified IFS CV:
- http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/cvmod/

I prefer shims since if I had cut and re-welded my spring perches on all the times I have changed drive shaft angles over the years, there would be nothing left to weld on anymore. Sure if you are setting up what will be your last and final suspension setup then re-welding the perches on is an excellent solution.

texcat101

Thanks Roger, I was hoping you would see this thread.
It sounds like the 4 degree (or at least 3.5) upward correction with the reduced driveline angle would still be in the ballpark for a cv.

When building a double cardon driveshaft, do I just take my single shaft flip it end to end cut the desired length weld on the CV for the top and leave the slip joint end as configured? Do you have a picture of one? The 4x4wire link has a pic of the top portion but nothing on the overall view.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

Mine has CV on the top, slip yoke and u-joint on the bottom:

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I may be in for a PITB if I change rear suspension set up, well may use shims then. May shim knowledge is limited and pretty much hearsay minus the set I purchase but never installed. But I had to rotate my pinion 8* and that is too much for shims by all accounts that I've that I've read.

Marlin recommends the the pinion be pointed 1* to 2* below t-case to compensate for the spring wrap on accel and drive. I did this and have no vibes. I'm @ 1.5* or as close as my angle finder would allow.

texcat101

Nice!
I like the ubolt flip too, I have done the flip on the front, now may be the time to do the rear. Do you sell the rear flip kit?

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

meaning the fat part of his drive shaft is up towards the t-case, thus less likely to get damaged.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

I have made a few for folks over the years:


But unless you need something special, you can probably find something at most of the offroad shops.

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

u-bolt/u joint=tomato/tomato

texcat101

Don't need anything special, just thought it likely to order shims from you and might save on shipping if I combined orders.
BTW, I was checking the front driveline and it's 6 degrees on the pinion flange and 12.5 on the shaft so it looks like I will need 2 sets of shims (front and rear)
Do you think I could get by with 4 degrees on the front ? I don't want to rotate it up anymore than is absolutely necessary, with the 4.3/700r4 swap the front driveshaft diameter has to be reduced because of tranny pan clearance issues as it is.





And then you find we are talking about potatoes, it happens to me all the time!

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

For front drive shaft angles, see below:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/Shims.shtml#FAQ1

Unless this is an off-road only vehicle, your steering caster angle is 100X more important than proper pinion angles. And if you want to fix both, then rotating the steering knuckles is the only way to correct both:
- http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/tech/rotated_housing/

texcat101

Okay, so get the caster right ( toyota approx 6 degrees at the spring perch) and the cv joint will handle being off the "ideal" mark on pinion angle? could maybe cheat a couple of degrees to a happy medium?

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

CV joint could care less what angle it is at. It is the angle of the u-joint at the bottom end that ideally should be near the angle of the shaft for best operation. But as noted on the web page above, unless you need 4WD operation at high speed, front shaft alignment is not terribly critical. As long as it is not off so far as to be binding, it'll be fine for typical 4WD use (i.e. slow speed). Now if you need to do high speed desert prerunning in 4WD, then spend the time to get the pinion angle right as well. Mine is off a few degrees and I can feel it vibrate a little if I am on smooth roads at higher speeds, but if I get onto a gravel or dirt road, I don't notice it and can easily run 50MPH+ in 4WD. After all if you need 4WD for the added traction, you probably don't need to be flying along at 100MPH!

texcat101

Thats what I needed to hear, yeeehaaa. I will never get over 45 in 4wd

Thanks roger

muddpigg

iTrader: (1)

Chech into a single cardigan (sp?) for the front. It may be your happy medium.

texcat101

Just got them back from the local driveline shop