Turn signal/Brake light wiring question

pfdaxe · 07-28-2004, 10:10 PM

Does anyone know how I can wire the turn signal to my brake/tail light on my 2000 Runner? I'm doing something custom on my rear lights. I already tried connecting them together by tapping the turn signal into the tail/brake and it all works fine until I hit the brakes. Then the turn signal stops and the light stays steady. My question...is there a way I can get this to work with some sort of relay or something??

TIA

Paul

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Unhappy99 · 07-29-2004, 06:36 AM

Assuming you don't have the factory trailer wiring, or that its bad, the simplest and most cost effective solution is to go to an auto parts store, Uhaul, or kwikhitch and get the harness and converter.

$35 or $40 solves the problem.

pfdaxe · 07-29-2004, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unhappy99

Assuming you don't have the factory trailer wiring, or that its bad, the simplest and most cost effective solution is to go to an auto parts store, Uhaul, or kwikhitch and get the harness and converter.

$35 or $40 solves the problem.

Thanks for the reply...but I'm not talking about trailer wiring. I'm talking about the tail/brake/turns on the truck itself.

Unless your talking about adding a harness between my factory trailer wiring and my lights on the truck?

Unhappy99 · 07-29-2004, 09:32 AM

It accomplishes the same thing, which is converting your independent turn and brake signals to a combination brake-turn signal. Or did I misunderstand your original question?

This cannot be accomplished by one relay. You need an 'exclusive or' gate (CD4070) driving a PMOS power transistor to switch voltage. This is exactly what the trailer converters do, with some added short and/or reverse circuit protection.

If you have the factory trailer wiring, then just disconnect your brake light wire and attach the trailer wiring brake/turn wire to your brake light. Done!

pfdaxe · 07-29-2004, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unhappy99

It accomplishes the same thing, which is converting your independent turn and brake signals to a combination brake-turn signal. Or did I misunderstand your original question?

This cannot be accomplished by one relay. You need an 'exclusive or' gate (CD4070) driving a PMOS power transistor to switch voltage. This is exactly what the trailer converters do, with some added short and/or reverse circuit protection.

If you have the factory trailer wiring, then just disconnect your brake light wire and attach the trailer wiring brake/turn wire to your brake light. Done!

I understand what your saying and it makes sense. I looked under my truck and I have a plug to connect trailer wires to(yellow, green, brown and white)labeled ground, brake, L turn, & R turn. Do I still need the converter and then splice into the wires that come out of that or are these wires already converted?

Unhappy99 · 07-29-2004, 10:03 AM

Nope. If you have the external wiring plug, then you already have the converter, lets hope it still works. Just open up the left rear interior panel and adjust your wiring accordingly.

This thread has more info. Start reading about 2/3rds the way down where the photos are.

pfdaxe · 07-29-2004, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unhappy99

Nope. If you have the external wiring plug, then you already have the converter, lets hope it still works. Just open up the left rear interior panel and adjust your wiring accordingly.

This thread has more info. Start reading about 2/3rds the way down where the photos are.

Awesome! Thanks. I'll try it this weekend

Unhappy99 · 07-29-2004, 10:24 AM

"to(yellow, green, brown and white)labeled ground, brake, L turn, & R turn."

This should not be the case. It should be:
White: Ground
Brown: Tail lights
Yellow: Left Turn/brake
Green: Right Turn/brake

pfdaxe · 07-29-2004, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unhappy99

"to(yellow, green, brown and white)labeled ground, brake, L turn, & R turn."

This should not be the case. It should be:
White: Ground
Brown: Tail lights
Yellow: Left Turn/brake
Green: Right Turn/brake

Thanks...I know. I just typed it as I remembered the colors, not the correct location. It's labled on the plug anyway

pfdaxe · 07-30-2004, 10:44 AM

Ok...this is what I have so far:

I have everything listed as in the other post as far as having the converter and the correct wires.

I cut the turn signal wires completely and left them alone.

I then cut and spliced the green w/white stripe (brake light wire from bulb) into the yellow from the converter.

I then cut and spliced the same color wire on the RT side to the green wire from the converter.

Here's what I have. Brake lights, turns, hazards and tails work fine. My issue is now when hitting the brakes, all it does is flash faster when I have the turns on....

...soooo....I know I'm missing something here or have my splices and/or cuts wrong??

Unhappy99 · 07-30-2004, 01:05 PM

So it all works correctly, right? Except that turn signal flashes a bit faster when the brakes are on?

This would be because power for the flashing bulb is coming from both the brake power feed and turn power feed. There is a current sensor in the turn signal power feed, not enough current draw, and it flashes faster than normal, to let you know it thinks you have a burned out bulb.

Solution? Hmmmm....attach a second bulb or power resistor in parallel with your existing bulbs to increase current draw. 10 to 20 ohms and 10Watts would do it. Not graceful, but would work.

I would be inclined to try a 6 amp diode or two in series with the brake power feed going into the converter. Then the preferred current path would be from the turn signal power feed. The brake lights would be a bit dimmer, about the same as they are when the engine is not running.

I don't know if there is a current sensor on the brake feed, if so, then adding a diode or two in series might cause a failed brake light indicator to come on, if there is such a thing on the 4Runner.

Or, just live with it....

p.s. Could also try replacing the flasher with a different one. Autozone sells them for $8 or so, and it may have different current sensing characteristics.

07-29-2004, 06:36 AM	#2 (permalink)
Unhappy99 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 381	Assuming you don't have the factory trailer wiring, or that its bad, the simplest and most cost effective solution is to go to an auto parts store, Uhaul, or kwikhitch and get the harness and converter. $35 or $40 solves the problem. __________________ 03 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD...its amazing Ex: 1999 4Runner JT3HN86R1X0199261...Now somebody elses Karl Malone Toyota 'Certified' POS Legendary Toyota quality is exactly that: A thing of legend. Defective fuel gauge - 'Certified' Defective brake rotors - 'Certified' Defective axle seals - 'Certified' Defective heater diverter - 'Certified' etc. etc. etc.

07-29-2004, 09:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
Unhappy99 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 381	It accomplishes the same thing, which is converting your independent turn and brake signals to a combination brake-turn signal. Or did I misunderstand your original question? This cannot be accomplished by one relay. You need an 'exclusive or' gate (CD4070) driving a PMOS power transistor to switch voltage. This is exactly what the trailer converters do, with some added short and/or reverse circuit protection. If you have the factory trailer wiring, then just disconnect your brake light wire and attach the trailer wiring brake/turn wire to your brake light. Done! __________________ 03 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD...its amazing Ex: 1999 4Runner JT3HN86R1X0199261...Now somebody elses Karl Malone Toyota 'Certified' POS Legendary Toyota quality is exactly that: A thing of legend. Defective fuel gauge - 'Certified' Defective brake rotors - 'Certified' Defective axle seals - 'Certified' Defective heater diverter - 'Certified' etc. etc. etc. Last edited by Unhappy99; 07-29-2004 at 09:38 AM.

07-29-2004, 10:03 AM	#6 (permalink)
Unhappy99 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 381	Nope. If you have the external wiring plug, then you already have the converter, lets hope it still works. Just open up the left rear interior panel and adjust your wiring accordingly. This thread has more info. Start reading about 2/3rds the way down where the photos are. __________________ 03 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD...its amazing Ex: 1999 4Runner JT3HN86R1X0199261...Now somebody elses Karl Malone Toyota 'Certified' POS Legendary Toyota quality is exactly that: A thing of legend. Defective fuel gauge - 'Certified' Defective brake rotors - 'Certified' Defective axle seals - 'Certified' Defective heater diverter - 'Certified' etc. etc. etc.

07-29-2004, 10:24 AM	#8 (permalink)
Unhappy99 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 381	"to(yellow, green, brown and white)labeled ground, brake, L turn, & R turn." This should not be the case. It should be: White: Ground Brown: Tail lights Yellow: Left Turn/brake Green: Right Turn/brake __________________ 03 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD...its amazing Ex: 1999 4Runner JT3HN86R1X0199261...Now somebody elses Karl Malone Toyota 'Certified' POS Legendary Toyota quality is exactly that: A thing of legend. Defective fuel gauge - 'Certified' Defective brake rotors - 'Certified' Defective axle seals - 'Certified' Defective heater diverter - 'Certified' etc. etc. etc.

07-30-2004, 10:44 AM	#10 (permalink)
pfdaxe Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,443	Ok...this is what I have so far: I have everything listed as in the other post as far as having the converter and the correct wires. I cut the turn signal wires completely and left them alone. I then cut and spliced the green w/white stripe (brake light wire from bulb) into the yellow from the converter. I then cut and spliced the same color wire on the RT side to the green wire from the converter. Here's what I have. Brake lights, turns, hazards and tails work fine. My issue is now when hitting the brakes, all it does is flash faster when I have the turns on.... ...soooo....I know I'm missing something here or have my splices and/or cuts wrong?? __________________ My 2000 TRD 4 Runner My email Last edited by pfdaxe; 07-30-2004 at 10:57 AM.

07-30-2004, 01:05 PM	#11 (permalink)
Unhappy99 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 381	So it all works correctly, right? Except that turn signal flashes a bit faster when the brakes are on? This would be because power for the flashing bulb is coming from both the brake power feed and turn power feed. There is a current sensor in the turn signal power feed, not enough current draw, and it flashes faster than normal, to let you know it thinks you have a burned out bulb. Solution? Hmmmm....attach a second bulb or power resistor in parallel with your existing bulbs to increase current draw. 10 to 20 ohms and 10Watts would do it. Not graceful, but would work. I would be inclined to try a 6 amp diode or two in series with the brake power feed going into the converter. Then the preferred current path would be from the turn signal power feed. The brake lights would be a bit dimmer, about the same as they are when the engine is not running. I don't know if there is a current sensor on the brake feed, if so, then adding a diode or two in series might cause a failed brake light indicator to come on, if there is such a thing on the 4Runner. Or, just live with it.... p.s. Could also try replacing the flasher with a different one. Autozone sells them for $8 or so, and it may have different current sensing characteristics. __________________ 03 Dodge Ram 2500 CTD...its amazing Ex: 1999 4Runner JT3HN86R1X0199261...Now somebody elses Karl Malone Toyota 'Certified' POS Legendary Toyota quality is exactly that: A thing of legend. Defective fuel gauge - 'Certified' Defective brake rotors - 'Certified' Defective axle seals - 'Certified' Defective heater diverter - 'Certified' etc. etc. etc. Last edited by Unhappy99; 07-30-2004 at 01:12 PM.

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