Replaced Head Gasket, but not Head Bolts -- How bad is this?

The Rusty Gear · 09-09-2004, 10:46 AM

Like it says, I had the HG done, but the bolts were not replaced. From what I've heard, this is common. If the bolts were torqued properly, this means that I should be fine ie under normal driving I should not blow the gasket again for another 160k?

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roger · 09-09-2004, 11:43 AM

I personally wouldn't recommend it, but it seems as though a lot of people have gotten away with it. IMO why risk having to do it all over again to save a few bucks on new bolts?

Anyway, just make sure you retorque them when the time comes (usually 500-1k miles).

TRunner · 09-09-2004, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rusty Gear

Like it says, I had the HG done, but the bolts were not replaced. From what I've heard, this is common. If the bolts were torqued properly, this means that I should be fine ie under normal driving I should not blow the gasket again for another 160k?

I did not replace them on the full rebuild, but I did make sure they went back to the same location. From what the haynes repair manual claimed, you shouldn't replace them. I asked a mechanic about this and he said the same thing because the the threads already work together fine so why risk putting in a different thread? Seemed logical enough for me.

nfenwick · 09-09-2004, 03:12 PM

From what I understand Toyota does not advise reusing the head bolts. According to what I was told by Toyota the their bolts stretch when they are torqued down and should not be reused. Again this was what I was told by the Toyota Tech that did my head gasket recall work.

SoCal4Running · 09-09-2004, 05:50 PM

The bolts are Torque to yield, basically when you torque a bolt you are actually stretching it alittle. A torque to yield bolt will only stretch once with a reliable and consistant reading on the torque wrench. They should not be reused although I have seen it done before on motors with no problems.

runnerboy97 · 09-09-2004, 07:28 PM

wow, this is a good thread. i just got in from working on my 3.0, i am replacing the heads cause one was cracked. i got one of the new heads on using the old bolts, but i didnt put them back in the same holes they were previously in. i think after raeading this i am going to go get new head bolts. my question is, will i be able to reuse the new head gasket i just put on, but have already compressed? or do i need to get another gasket for that side.

superjoe83 · 09-09-2004, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runnerboy97

wow, this is a good thread. i just got in from working on my 3.0, i am replacing the heads cause one was cracked. i got one of the new heads on using the old bolts, but i didnt put them back in the same holes they were previously in. i think after raeading this i am going to go get new head bolts. my question is, will i be able to reuse the new head gasket i just put on, but have already compressed? or do i need to get another gasket for that side.

get the loosening sequence, and replace one at a time, this way shouldn't hurt anything

runnerboy97 · 09-10-2004, 04:17 AM

good idea, the reason i definatly want to replace the bolts is casue this truck appears to have had the heads off at least once before, as they were not factory head gaskets on there.

SLC Punk · 09-10-2004, 05:39 AM

I have never re-used head bolts. I just talked to my friend, who is a ford mechanic and he said that he just replaces the gasket (not the bolts) and it is fine. He has done this on his 12 sec DSM, Turbo Miata and his old supercharged 5.0 Mustang. None of them had any problems.

When I got the HG replaced on my Celica at the dealership, I asked if they were going to put in new HG bolts, they said no. It made me feel uneasy, especially on a F/I engine, so I bought ARP head studs and had them install those instead.

roger · 09-10-2004, 01:02 PM

Having rebuilt a few motors in my garage, I always thought replacing the head bolts was standard operating procedure. I just assumed everybody did it as a matter of course. But I'm no crack mechanic either.

I would still do it, no matter what someone else told me. Like I said, why risk it?

SoCal4Running · 09-12-2004, 06:02 PM

Quote:

I did not replace them on the full rebuild, but I did make sure they went back to the same location. From what the haynes repair manual claimed, you shouldn't replace them. I asked a mechanic about this and he said the same thing because the the threads already work together fine so why risk putting in a different thread? Seemed logical enough for me.

Dont you always use a tap clean and restore the threads in the block? If there is debris in the threads or burs to hang up on you will never get a proper torque reading on the bolts and they might not actually be tight.

runnerboy97 · 09-12-2004, 06:54 PM

geez those are some expensive bolts, i asked my mechanic buddy and they are $90. that is after he cuts me a break. i dont even want to know what the dealership charges for a new set of head bolts.

HondaTec521 · 09-13-2004, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runnerboy97

geez those are some expensive bolts, i asked my mechanic buddy and they are $90. that is after he cuts me a break. i dont even want to know what the dealership charges for a new set of head bolts.

$170.00 -I just ordered a set .But he gave me a discount b/c i spent over $900 on parts from them.(got 'em for $120)

TRunner · 09-13-2004, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal4Running

Dont you always use a tap clean and restore the threads in the block? If there is debris in the threads or burs to hang up on you will never get a proper torque reading on the bolts and they might not actually be tight.

As stated in the haynes manual:
Tap and chase all threads and then hit with compressed air (always wear safety glasses) or a vacuum.

I can't tell you how many times I read that, but yeah I would highly suggest doing that.

Fahrenheit 451 · 09-13-2004, 08:03 AM

`

Quote:

Originally Posted by runnerboy97

geez those are some expensive bolts, i asked my mechanic buddy and they are $90. that is after he cuts me a break. i dont even want to know what the dealership charges for a new set of head bolts.

A whole lot cheaper than having to redo the headgasket.
Speaking of "A whole"s, the "a whole" mechanic that did the first headgasket on my '85 4Runner (note the word FIRST) thought there was a problem with the studs on my LCE motor that caused some problems. So, being an idiot I bought a set of bolts to replace the studs before contacting the company. The ARP studs were fine. The mechanic was wrong, twice. First he was wrong that there was something was wrong with the studs, next he was wrong when he torqued the studs to bolt specs. That headgasket lasted less than 50 miles and cost me another headgasket

Anyway, I wound up with an unused set of bolts that fit '85-95 22re. I did a quick check and they weigh in around 3 1/12 to 4lbs in the box and shipping to you would be $7.20 first class or $9.45 priority mail. LMK if you want them and you can have them for $50 and shipping. That should leave you enough $ for some pizza and beer while you put them in.
A one-time offer to a fellow Yotatecher in mild distress

09-09-2004, 05:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
SoCal4Running Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Oceanside, CA. Posts: 786	The bolts are Torque to yield, basically when you torque a bolt you are actually stretching it alittle. A torque to yield bolt will only stretch once with a reliable and consistant reading on the torque wrench. They should not be reused although I have seen it done before on motors with no problems. __________________ '86 4runner 22RE, 5-speed, LC Street EFI head w/ cam, LC Pistons, ARP Head Studs, Downey header, Dynomax 2 1/4" full exhaust, VDO water temp guage, 01-03 Tacoma cd\tape radio with 10" Bazzoka, Downey 2" rear springs, GDI radiator, Torus fan DONE!!!! '68 Ford Mustang Fastback Daily driver with a built 289 and a streetfighter trans.(Retired) 98 Subaru Outback-Took over daily driving duties MicroMatic.com Waco93.com

09-09-2004, 07:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
runnerboy97 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Roanoke, VA Posts: 1,017	wow, this is a good thread. i just got in from working on my 3.0, i am replacing the heads cause one was cracked. i got one of the new heads on using the old bolts, but i didnt put them back in the same holes they were previously in. i think after raeading this i am going to go get new head bolts. my question is, will i be able to reuse the new head gasket i just put on, but have already compressed? or do i need to get another gasket for that side. __________________ 1997 4runner,lifted, locked, dash and grille mounted red LED lights, its my DD 1988 4runner, SAS, dual lockers, dual cases, longfields, 36's, and lots more.

09-10-2004, 04:17 AM	#8 (permalink)
runnerboy97 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Roanoke, VA Posts: 1,017	good idea, the reason i definatly want to replace the bolts is casue this truck appears to have had the heads off at least once before, as they were not factory head gaskets on there. __________________ 1997 4runner,lifted, locked, dash and grille mounted red LED lights, its my DD 1988 4runner, SAS, dual lockers, dual cases, longfields, 36's, and lots more.

09-10-2004, 05:39 AM	#9 (permalink)
SLC Punk Contributing Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 5,875	I have never re-used head bolts. I just talked to my friend, who is a ford mechanic and he said that he just replaces the gasket (not the bolts) and it is fine. He has done this on his 12 sec DSM, Turbo Miata and his old supercharged 5.0 Mustang. None of them had any problems. When I got the HG replaced on my Celica at the dealership, I asked if they were going to put in new HG bolts, they said no. It made me feel uneasy, especially on a F/I engine, so I bought ARP head studs and had them install those instead. __________________ -Travis 1997 4Runner SR5 V6 4X4 Supercharged Desert Dune SOLD :( 1992 Celica All Trac (AWD-Turbo) #223 of 271 US spec for 1992 FOR SALE 2005 Tundra Double Cab Limited 4X4 2.5" lift 265/70R17 Dueler Revo's 4Runner and Celica Webpage

09-12-2004, 06:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
runnerboy97 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Roanoke, VA Posts: 1,017	geez those are some expensive bolts, i asked my mechanic buddy and they are $90. that is after he cuts me a break. i dont even want to know what the dealership charges for a new set of head bolts. __________________ 1997 4runner,lifted, locked, dash and grille mounted red LED lights, its my DD 1988 4runner, SAS, dual lockers, dual cases, longfields, 36's, and lots more.

09-09-2004, 11:43 AM	#2 (permalink)
roger Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 473	I personally wouldn't recommend it, but it seems as though a lot of people have gotten away with it. IMO why risk having to do it all over again to save a few bucks on new bolts? Anyway, just make sure you retorque them when the time comes (usually 500-1k miles).

09-09-2004, 03:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
nfenwick Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 91	From what I understand Toyota does not advise reusing the head bolts. According to what I was told by Toyota the their bolts stretch when they are torqued down and should not be reused. Again this was what I was told by the Toyota Tech that did my head gasket recall work.

09-10-2004, 01:02 PM	#10 (permalink)
roger Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 473	Having rebuilt a few motors in my garage, I always thought replacing the head bolts was standard operating procedure. I just assumed everybody did it as a matter of course. But I'm no crack mechanic either. I would still do it, no matter what someone else told me. Like I said, why risk it?

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