ianshoots

I've given some thought to installing the downey headers on my tacoma, however I'm also planning a mild body lift (4crawler 1" or 1 1/2"). The Downey website states that their tacoma headers won't work with a body lift (which makes me wonder if thats true for other headers for tacomas as well, and the manufactures just as concientious(sp?) about informing us).

So I called Downey to see WHY. The guy in sales I spoke to (name escapes me now) wasn't 100% sure, but was pretty confident that it had to with the necessary steering extension causing the rag joint to collide with the new Y pipe (I believe when the body goes up, the angle of the steering shaft must become a little steeper). When he described the steering extension, he had a weld on type in mind, he was not familar with the bolt in steering spacer that Roger Brown provides.

I wonder if Downey has a bigger lift, hence a steeper angle, in mind when they provide that warning. If so I might be able to get away with my mild lift and still add those headers in the future. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

I thought that I might begin by just getting the steering space from 4crawler, and seeing if i could send it to Downey-the sales guy mentioned they have a lot of test trucks around, and they seem like the kind of operation that might be willing to help out.

In the end, I'll probably go with the body lift over the headers if it can't be resovled....

Thanks eveyone for reading this excessively long post.

ianshoots

Anyone?

Bump for the lovely fall weekend.

Darx

I don't know about the Downey headers but I have a 1" RB body lift/steering extension and my TRD headers were put in no problem. Maybe Downey has some funky angle on them that deviates from stock.

ianshoots

Excellent info. Were your TRD headers made by edelbrock? Either way, I may ask downey if they know if the shape of their header differs that much.

Thanks

alltrac165

I have a 2" lift and Edelbrock headers. No problem. Since the engine stays put, and the steering actually moves up and away from the headers, I can't imagine why they wouldn't work. I tried to figure it out myself to no avail. I have the steering extension as well, and it's no more in the way than the stock set up was.

ianshoots

What truck do you have the headers on. I suppose I should have specified that Downery only says this is a problem with tacomas (which would coincide with what, 3rd gen runners on?

Darx

I'm not sure who makes the headers for TRD.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

I know my steering extension interferes on Tacomas with Edelbrock headers above about 1.5" body lift (as noted on my page). Steering extension can be up to about 1.25" tall. Have the guy at Downey measure the clearance up from the top of the rag joint (at the base of the steering shaft) and see how high above that you could go before hitting the header tubing.

As far as I know, the TRD headers fit fine. Only other "exhaust" issue I know of is the RHD turbo diesel 3rd gens (Surf) can't run my extension, you either need a spline extension or most folks have just taken out the shaft, had it cut and then welded in a sleeve to extend it.

ianshoots

Rock on Roger. Sounds like I could safely proceed with my 1" to 1 1/2" BL. I will still probably talk with Downey, just so I can get a definitive answer (so I can finnally add something to the information base here on the forum).

alltrac165

Oh yeah,sorry, I have a swap into a second gen Runner. It's in my sig, but I should have mentioned it.

rimpainter.com

I have Edelbrocks and a 1" RB BL. The only problem I ran into was the collector flange touching the clutch MC line. In fact, it ended up burning a hole through it and I lost all hydraulic press to the clutch. This happened as I was pulling into the garage (how cool is that?).

Anyway, just go with the Edelbrock's and have them coated. I can't believe a Downey rep could not answer a simple question about their own product. :pat:

midiwall

I have Downey's on my 3rd gen (1996) 4Runner and run _no_ body lift.

4Crawler

iTrader: (3)

2nd gen lacks the rack and pinion steering, which is where the interference problem can come about with the steering shaft rag joint.

ianshoots

So are edelbrock and downey headers about the same price? I'd sure hate to start another thread asking who's got what and how they like it....

rimpainter.com

Piece together the cost of the Downey's with the cross-under pipe, shipping, etc., then compare to:

...the Edelbrocks, they are $375 at Summitracing.com last time I checked. Now, you will want to get them HPC coated, so add another $200. Now you are up around $600 + install. So you are approaching $1000 territory with either the Downey's or the Edelbrocks installed by a shop. Personally, I would not do it unless I was doing the install (which I did). $1000 is not worth the performance gain IMO. The gain is good, but not that good.

ianshoots

I'd try to do it myself (well, me and a buddy) if I were to get 'em. Having read gadgets installation write up, I'm fairly daunted....

How noticeable was the increase? Are you a dyno guy, or just seat o the pants? DId you notice a improvement in MPG (truck is my daily driver, so I'm curious).?

Thanks

alltrac165

Right, right, I clean forgot about that. Nevermind me then....

rimpainter.com

Not a dyno guy here, but I would rate myself as very acute. The most accurate way I can describe the increase is a more noticeable "surge" around 3800 - 4500. I also notice more pull going up the big hills into Flagstaff. I can leave it in 5th when previously I may have shifted into 4th - even fully loaded with camping stuff. I track my mileage and have noticed no real difference. Of course, I have also changed a lot near or around the same time as the headers; gearing, steel wheels back to alloys, ISR mod design, etc. So, I would list the MPG test as inconclusive.

Again, for $600 - $700 installing headers yourself, I think they are barely worth it. As you climb into $1000 territory, I would say no, spend your $ on something else that you can "use" to a greater degree.

I stress the importance of ceramic coating. Non-ceramic will really heat things up under the hood.

Good luck!