Does Yotatech have any interset in a new alternative for trailer light converters?
10-22-2005, 05:20 PM
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Does Yotatech have any interest in a new alternative for trailer light converters?
I am prefacing this thread by saying:
1. I haven't actually built this yet, but I am nearly positive it will work.
2. No, I wont build one for you / sell you one, but when I'm done, I will freely post the diagrams and details with a few pictures.
I have used the 5 wire to 4 wire universal trailer light converters in the past, and have always found them a bit lacking. Specifically, I find that the voltage that actually reaches the trailer lights is usually only 9.5v to 10v, especially on large trailers will multiple running/brake lights. The problem is not the long run of wire, but the voltage seems to get "lost" in the converter box. I did some testing on one recently, and found that even with no load on the trailer harness, I was getting 12.5v to 13v into the converter and only about 10v out. As this causes the trailer lights to be rather dim, I find it unacceptable, but it's still convienent to use these over the counter converters.
The straw that broke the camel's back and put me on the path to find a better way was when I recently went to Uhaul to rent a trailer, and discovered that my Drawtite branded converter decided that I no longer required brake lights and shorted out, blowing the fuse. This was before I even connected the trailer, and while I would love to blame this on Uhaul's crappy trailers it wasn't their fault (this time). Replacing the fuse netted me a right brake light on the trailer, and perfectly working lights on the truck. There was no voltage coming out for the left side brake light at all.
My converter will be made from parts readily available at any Radio Shack or electronics shop, and anyone who is handy with a soldering iron and wire crimpers should be able to build it. I believe that it will cost about the same or less than the Hoppy or Drawtite converters to build. The real bonus to this setup will be much less voltage loss to the trailer lights, and vastly reduced load on your rig's wiring, as everything will be run through relays off the battery.
The only drawback I have been able to determine is that when the brakes are applied, the turn signals will flash out of phase on the trailer. I.E., when the truck's turn signal is on, the trailer's will be off, and vice versa. When the brakes are not applied, the turn signals are in phase on the truck and trailer.
Opinions? Am I just being way to anal about my truck? Should I just go buy any POS converter that will short out?
1. I haven't actually built this yet, but I am nearly positive it will work.
2. No, I wont build one for you / sell you one, but when I'm done, I will freely post the diagrams and details with a few pictures.
I have used the 5 wire to 4 wire universal trailer light converters in the past, and have always found them a bit lacking. Specifically, I find that the voltage that actually reaches the trailer lights is usually only 9.5v to 10v, especially on large trailers will multiple running/brake lights. The problem is not the long run of wire, but the voltage seems to get "lost" in the converter box. I did some testing on one recently, and found that even with no load on the trailer harness, I was getting 12.5v to 13v into the converter and only about 10v out. As this causes the trailer lights to be rather dim, I find it unacceptable, but it's still convienent to use these over the counter converters.
The straw that broke the camel's back and put me on the path to find a better way was when I recently went to Uhaul to rent a trailer, and discovered that my Drawtite branded converter decided that I no longer required brake lights and shorted out, blowing the fuse. This was before I even connected the trailer, and while I would love to blame this on Uhaul's crappy trailers it wasn't their fault (this time). Replacing the fuse netted me a right brake light on the trailer, and perfectly working lights on the truck. There was no voltage coming out for the left side brake light at all.
My converter will be made from parts readily available at any Radio Shack or electronics shop, and anyone who is handy with a soldering iron and wire crimpers should be able to build it. I believe that it will cost about the same or less than the Hoppy or Drawtite converters to build. The real bonus to this setup will be much less voltage loss to the trailer lights, and vastly reduced load on your rig's wiring, as everything will be run through relays off the battery.
The only drawback I have been able to determine is that when the brakes are applied, the turn signals will flash out of phase on the trailer. I.E., when the truck's turn signal is on, the trailer's will be off, and vice versa. When the brakes are not applied, the turn signals are in phase on the truck and trailer.
Opinions? Am I just being way to anal about my truck? Should I just go buy any POS converter that will short out?
Last edited by yamarocket630; 10-22-2005 at 05:25 PM.
10-22-2005, 05:27 PM
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some of the turn signal converters are cheaply made and allow water to get inside and play all sorts of fun games with your lights. for example, i installed one in my '84 toyota and 6 months later when i'd hit the brakes or put on my turn signals, my dash and running lights would come on.
i bought a different brand when i put one in my '79, and it's been working well for over 2 years...
i bought a different brand when i put one in my '79, and it's been working well for over 2 years...
10-22-2005, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceTS
After my factory one blew out, I went with this one, and never had a problem since.
Erich
10-22-2005, 06:56 PM
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First, it would just be easier to buy LED lights for your trailer... Very bright and use hardly any voltage.
That being said, there are several types of tail light converters. We had some trouble with the cheaper ones blowing up on us, but the ones that we use now have a big heat sink, and have worked for 8+ years.
on another note, most trailer light problems stem from a crappy ground. The easiest way is to use extenstion cord to wire up your lights. 3 wires down each side, that way your ground runs all the way to the light, instead of traveling down the frame.
That being said, there are several types of tail light converters. We had some trouble with the cheaper ones blowing up on us, but the ones that we use now have a big heat sink, and have worked for 8+ years.
on another note, most trailer light problems stem from a crappy ground. The easiest way is to use extenstion cord to wire up your lights. 3 wires down each side, that way your ground runs all the way to the light, instead of traveling down the frame.
10-25-2005, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jordon Norwood
First, it would just be easier to buy LED lights for your trailer... Very bright and use hardly any voltage.
on another note, most trailer light problems stem from a crappy ground.
on another note, most trailer light problems stem from a crappy ground.
I agree that poor ground is often the problem, but not the case this time, it was a failed converter.
Finally, I didn't want to spend the $50-$80 the good converter / isolator units sell for locally, so I made my own.
It works great, exactly like I thought it would.
Total cost $11, but I had a lot of the parts laying around.
Pics of the finished converter / isolator. The 4 pin molex connector is all the inputs for the brake/tail/turn signals from the truck. Unplugging it shuts the relays off completely, so there is no voltage to the trailer plug unless I'm actually using it.
I made all the connections for the tail, brake and turn signal inputs at the body harness connector under the driver's seat, so they will stay high and dry. The yellow wire at the bottom of the picture is the power wire to the battery.
And a diagram
http://www.freebmw.net/yamarocket630...ailer/scan.GIF
Last edited by yamarocket630; 10-25-2005 at 04:41 PM.
10-26-2005, 08:45 AM
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Yep. Stupid converters never last. Been making relay converters for years, since about 1983 or so. On my 85 I put the relays and diodes behind the tail lights. I ran the ground for the setup through the tow plut (6prong) and back, so they would only operate (click-click click-click) when their was a trailer plugged in.
Come to think of it - if the current owner of it ever finds them he might do some head scratching...
Come to think of it - if the current owner of it ever finds them he might do some head scratching...
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10-26-2005, 09:39 AM
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A few things I see:
1) There is no circuit protection here, so if the trailer is shorted, it takes out the truck B+ fuse, killing ALL the trailer lights. Add fuses to the individual relays on each 30 input.
2) You are backfeeding power to the turn signals or brake lights through the relay primaries. While this current is small (.04A) and being mostly absorbed by the truck lamps, it is still bad practice to supply power on a circuit when that circuit doesn't expect it. For example, should a truck brake or turn signal lamp burn out, you now have full voltage available on the return wire going back to the dashboard. Depending on dash electronics, this can be bad.
The brick converters from Uhaul, Toyota, etc., use diode protection to ensure no reverse currents. The circuits are a bit more complex, usually involving a simple logic i.c., power transistors and an overcurrent detector, which seems to fail routinely in the Toyota case.
1) There is no circuit protection here, so if the trailer is shorted, it takes out the truck B+ fuse, killing ALL the trailer lights. Add fuses to the individual relays on each 30 input.
2) You are backfeeding power to the turn signals or brake lights through the relay primaries. While this current is small (.04A) and being mostly absorbed by the truck lamps, it is still bad practice to supply power on a circuit when that circuit doesn't expect it. For example, should a truck brake or turn signal lamp burn out, you now have full voltage available on the return wire going back to the dashboard. Depending on dash electronics, this can be bad.
The brick converters from Uhaul, Toyota, etc., use diode protection to ensure no reverse currents. The circuits are a bit more complex, usually involving a simple logic i.c., power transistors and an overcurrent detector, which seems to fail routinely in the Toyota case.
10-26-2005, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Unhappy99
A few things I see:
1) There is no circuit protection here, so if the trailer is shorted, it takes out the truck B+ fuse, killing ALL the trailer lights. Add fuses to the individual relays on each 30 input.
2) You are backfeeding power to the turn signals or brake lights through the relay primaries. While this current is small (.04A) and being mostly absorbed by the truck lamps, it is still bad practice to supply power on a circuit when that circuit doesn't expect it. For example, should a truck brake or turn signal lamp burn out, you now have full voltage available on the return wire going back to the dashboard. Depending on dash electronics, this can be bad.
The brick converters from Uhaul, Toyota, etc., use diode protection to ensure no reverse currents. The circuits are a bit more complex, usually involving a simple logic i.c., power transistors and an overcurrent detector, which seems to fail routinely in the Toyota case.
1) There is no circuit protection here, so if the trailer is shorted, it takes out the truck B+ fuse, killing ALL the trailer lights. Add fuses to the individual relays on each 30 input.
2) You are backfeeding power to the turn signals or brake lights through the relay primaries. While this current is small (.04A) and being mostly absorbed by the truck lamps, it is still bad practice to supply power on a circuit when that circuit doesn't expect it. For example, should a truck brake or turn signal lamp burn out, you now have full voltage available on the return wire going back to the dashboard. Depending on dash electronics, this can be bad.
The brick converters from Uhaul, Toyota, etc., use diode protection to ensure no reverse currents. The circuits are a bit more complex, usually involving a simple logic i.c., power transistors and an overcurrent detector, which seems to fail routinely in the Toyota case.
As far as the minor back feed of current, I have been making similar circuits this way for years and never had an issue, but I'm always careful not to do this on any lamp that is controlled directly by a computer module. That's also the reason I added the molex connector. If I'm not towing, it is disconnected and there is no backfeed, because the 85/86 terminals of each relay are connected to open circuits.
I also noticed a minor mistake in my diagram, so I fixed it and reposted it.
10-26-2005, 03:23 PM
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This, I believe, is how I've done it. Been a few years....
Last edited by Flamedx4; 10-26-2005 at 03:27 PM.
10-26-2005, 03:52 PM
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Couple of fuses in right place wouldn't hurt. Neither would a few extra diodes. When your ground goes away, you have a feedback path through relay primaries. Left turn to 2nd relay primary to ground to first, third and fourth relay primaries to brake signal and right turn. Similar thing on the right and brake signals.
Here is my replacement for the failed Toyota brick.
Here is my replacement for the failed Toyota brick.
Last edited by Unhappy99; 10-26-2005 at 06:30 PM.
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