Is Yotatech's Tread Lightly member/partner status in Jeopardy?
09-09-2006, 12:30 PM
#121
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Most of the trails I go on are privately owned and I have permission to go on them. The other trails are state owned and they aren't designated an off-road trail but people have been wheeling on them for years. So to answer your question, no. Besides, the only "legal" trails that I know of that is somewhat close to me is Paragon. Their may be trails up by me, but I cannot find any information on the web about these trails and nobody I knows doesn't know either. I know where a bunch of 4 wheeler trails and snowmobile trails are though but no off-road trails for trucks.
James
James
In addition, public land belongs to everyone; yes even the "greenines". Public areas also have a designated use i.e. forest land, wildlife habitat, etc. The primary goal of these agencies is to protect the integrity of the land for its designated use and if other recreational uses conflict with that designation...
I would also like to add that in most cases I have encountered with areas designated for public use it is only a few "bad apples" that cause the problems. I think the "tread lightly" is a good tool to use to enforce responsible behavior on trails. Until there is another idea of how to enforce responsible behavior and completely eliminate the abuse of public properties the rules in "thread lightly" should be strictly enforced.
Yes, America is a free country (unless it infringes on anyone else's rights) and you do have a choice. If you feel that you cannot abide by the "thread lightly" rules you can buy your own property, get permission and/or pay a property owner and drive anywhere you want on the private land. Until then, please do not mess up the use of the public trails for everyone else, as well as myself. I may want to plan a trip to one of them someday.
10-16-2006, 10:23 AM
#122
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Sierra Club "give and take"
http://www.sierraclub.org/policy/con...on/offroad.asp
Protect America's Environment: For Our Families, For Our Future
Sierra Club Policy: Off-Road Use of Vehicles
The following policy on Off-Road Use of Vehicles has been adopted by the Sierra Club Board of Directors:
Off-Road Use of Vehicles
1. Use in officially designated wilderness: The Sierra Club reaffirms its support for the Wilderness Act's prohibition of "mechanized modes of transport," including non-motorized vehicles, from entry into designated wilderness.
2. Use of vehicles on other public lands:
(Replaces Off-Road Vehicle policy adoptedin February 1972 and modified in May 1895 and March 1986.)
[Note: At its meeting of May 7-8, 1994, the Board voted to rename this policy as the Off-Road Motorized Vehicle Policy and to readopt it separately as the Off-Road Bicycle Policy. The latter is now being revised.]
Background
Off-road use of vehicles can present serious and special problems of impact on the environment and incompatibility with other users of the land. Experience has shown that off-road use of vehicles may result in one or more of the following effects:
All vehicles:
1. Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in:
3. Disturbance of wildlife, leadingto weakened physical condition, death, and possible extinction of some species;
4. Damage to archaeological, scientific,historical and other significant sites, and damage to natural features, sometimes with irreversible effects, especially on rare features of interestfor scientific study;
5. Facilitation of illegal huntingfishing and the talking of game and non-game wildlife;
6. Danger to the safety of other landusers because of vehicle speed, steep terrain, sharp curves, slippery or unstable trail surfaces, and/or limited visibility; and
7. Competition with other land users:vehicle operators, with their increased mobility, generally use a greater quantity of scarce land per recreational user.
Motorized vehicles:
1. Introduction of air and water pollution to areas presently removed from any such sources;
2. Excessive noise, which, in close proximity, may result in physiological effects on animals and humans, or may induce anxiety, altering animal behavior patterns, and which, in mostcircumstances, seriously degrades the solitude of wild areas for other users;
3. Litter: by virtue of mechanization,operators of vehicles carry more gear, with potential to leave more litter;
4. Vandalism: motorized ease of access is often coupled with increase of acts of vandalism on public and private property; and
5. Fire: illegally or improperly operatedvehicles can often create a fire hazard on public or private lands.
Guidelines for Implementation
The following guidelines are not official Club policy. They were developed by the Club's Public Lands Committee to help interpret and implement the policy.
All vehicles:
1. Vehicles should be excluded from areas of fragile, rare, relict, or vanishing vegetation; areas where erosion or other soil or resource damage will occur with their use; wildlife sanctuaries and sensitive areas; areas of fragile natural features or scientific interest; areas of archeological interest; and areas where speed would adversely affect other users of natural areas.
2. If areas or routes are not found unsuitable for vehicle use because of environmental impact or user interference reasons, two additional tests should be made: a. Are the area or route boundaries self-enforcing? Areas and routes from which it would be difficult for irresponsible vehicle users to stray are preferable to those that would require high management activity levels to enforce. b. Is the vehicle use area or route appropriate for the overall area? Regions where less intense use is desirable should have lower densities of vehicle activity than more disturbed regions. Many routes used by vehicles for access would be inappropriate for intensive vehicle play, for example. Also, all but one of several closely parallel routes should often be closed.
3. Educational programs should be initiated to instruct vehicle operators on safety, consideration for others, environmental impact, and on places legal to operate.
4. When using private land, all vehicle operators must have in their possession written permission from the landowner.
5. Trail construction and maintenance workers and trail users should report vehicular trail damage to land managers for possible trail closure or other remedial action.
6. For most effective implementationof policy, local regulations that exceed state and federal standards for control of vehicle use off-road should be encouraged.
7. State, county, and local law enforcement officers should have authority and resources to enforce vehicle and public resource laws on all public land.
8. The Sierra Club does not consider wheelchairs, when used as necessary medical devices, to be vehicles.
Motorized vehicles:
1. Motorized vehicle operators should be tested and licensed on their ability to operate the vehicles and knowledge of all laws relating to vehicle operation off-road.
2. All motorized vehicles used off-road should be licensed and clearly identified for off-road use. The license fee should be placed in a fund designated for the repair of environmental damage caused by vehicles; for personnel and equipment for patrol and law enforcement; for educational services; for financing of continuing studiesof the effects of vehicles on wildlife, vegetation and other elements of the environment disturbed by their use; and for ensuring the safety, peace and enjoyment of the environment by other users.
3. Mufflers and spark-arrestors should be made mandatory on all motorized vehicles used off-road, with provision for periodic inspection.
4. All motorized vehicles used off-road should be equipped with air pollution control devices that meet the same standards set for automobiles.
Sierra Club Policy: Off-Road Use of Vehicles
The following policy on Off-Road Use of Vehicles has been adopted by the Sierra Club Board of Directors:
Off-Road Use of Vehicles
1. Use in officially designated wilderness: The Sierra Club reaffirms its support for the Wilderness Act's prohibition of "mechanized modes of transport," including non-motorized vehicles, from entry into designated wilderness.
2. Use of vehicles on other public lands:
a. Trails and areas on public lands should be closed to all vehicles unless
Adopted May 7, 1988 Policy Code 6.2 (1) determined to be appropriate for their use through completion of an analysis, review, and implementation process, and
(2) officially posted with signs as being open.
b. The process must include (2) officially posted with signs as being open.
(1) application of objective criteria to assess whether or not environmental quality can be effectively maintained, and whether the safety and enjoyment of all users can be protected;
(2) a public review and comment procedure involving all interested parties; and
(3) promulgation of effective implementing regulations where impacts are sufficiently low that vehicle use is appropriate.
c.Trails and areas designated for vehicular use must be monitored periodically to detect environmental damage or user interference inconsistent with the above criteria. Where this occurs, the trail or area must be closed to vehicles unless effective corrective regulations are enforced. (2) a public review and comment procedure involving all interested parties; and
(3) promulgation of effective implementing regulations where impacts are sufficiently low that vehicle use is appropriate.
(Replaces Off-Road Vehicle policy adoptedin February 1972 and modified in May 1895 and March 1986.)
[Note: At its meeting of May 7-8, 1994, the Board voted to rename this policy as the Off-Road Motorized Vehicle Policy and to readopt it separately as the Off-Road Bicycle Policy. The latter is now being revised.]
Background
Off-road use of vehicles can present serious and special problems of impact on the environment and incompatibility with other users of the land. Experience has shown that off-road use of vehicles may result in one or more of the following effects:
All vehicles:
1. Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in:
a. Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to streambanks, streams, and fish habitat;
b. Soil compaction and serious adverseimpact on flora and its regeneration; and
c. Degradation of trails, including rutting and breakdown of trail edges.
2. Disruption of wildlife breedingand nesting habitats, especially of vulnerable species, resulting in loss of young; b. Soil compaction and serious adverseimpact on flora and its regeneration; and
c. Degradation of trails, including rutting and breakdown of trail edges.
3. Disturbance of wildlife, leadingto weakened physical condition, death, and possible extinction of some species;
4. Damage to archaeological, scientific,historical and other significant sites, and damage to natural features, sometimes with irreversible effects, especially on rare features of interestfor scientific study;
5. Facilitation of illegal huntingfishing and the talking of game and non-game wildlife;
6. Danger to the safety of other landusers because of vehicle speed, steep terrain, sharp curves, slippery or unstable trail surfaces, and/or limited visibility; and
7. Competition with other land users:vehicle operators, with their increased mobility, generally use a greater quantity of scarce land per recreational user.
Motorized vehicles:
1. Introduction of air and water pollution to areas presently removed from any such sources;
2. Excessive noise, which, in close proximity, may result in physiological effects on animals and humans, or may induce anxiety, altering animal behavior patterns, and which, in mostcircumstances, seriously degrades the solitude of wild areas for other users;
3. Litter: by virtue of mechanization,operators of vehicles carry more gear, with potential to leave more litter;
4. Vandalism: motorized ease of access is often coupled with increase of acts of vandalism on public and private property; and
5. Fire: illegally or improperly operatedvehicles can often create a fire hazard on public or private lands.
Guidelines for Implementation
The following guidelines are not official Club policy. They were developed by the Club's Public Lands Committee to help interpret and implement the policy.
All vehicles:
1. Vehicles should be excluded from areas of fragile, rare, relict, or vanishing vegetation; areas where erosion or other soil or resource damage will occur with their use; wildlife sanctuaries and sensitive areas; areas of fragile natural features or scientific interest; areas of archeological interest; and areas where speed would adversely affect other users of natural areas.
2. If areas or routes are not found unsuitable for vehicle use because of environmental impact or user interference reasons, two additional tests should be made: a. Are the area or route boundaries self-enforcing? Areas and routes from which it would be difficult for irresponsible vehicle users to stray are preferable to those that would require high management activity levels to enforce. b. Is the vehicle use area or route appropriate for the overall area? Regions where less intense use is desirable should have lower densities of vehicle activity than more disturbed regions. Many routes used by vehicles for access would be inappropriate for intensive vehicle play, for example. Also, all but one of several closely parallel routes should often be closed.
3. Educational programs should be initiated to instruct vehicle operators on safety, consideration for others, environmental impact, and on places legal to operate.
4. When using private land, all vehicle operators must have in their possession written permission from the landowner.
5. Trail construction and maintenance workers and trail users should report vehicular trail damage to land managers for possible trail closure or other remedial action.
6. For most effective implementationof policy, local regulations that exceed state and federal standards for control of vehicle use off-road should be encouraged.
7. State, county, and local law enforcement officers should have authority and resources to enforce vehicle and public resource laws on all public land.
8. The Sierra Club does not consider wheelchairs, when used as necessary medical devices, to be vehicles.
Motorized vehicles:
1. Motorized vehicle operators should be tested and licensed on their ability to operate the vehicles and knowledge of all laws relating to vehicle operation off-road.
2. All motorized vehicles used off-road should be licensed and clearly identified for off-road use. The license fee should be placed in a fund designated for the repair of environmental damage caused by vehicles; for personnel and equipment for patrol and law enforcement; for educational services; for financing of continuing studiesof the effects of vehicles on wildlife, vegetation and other elements of the environment disturbed by their use; and for ensuring the safety, peace and enjoyment of the environment by other users.
3. Mufflers and spark-arrestors should be made mandatory on all motorized vehicles used off-road, with provision for periodic inspection.
4. All motorized vehicles used off-road should be equipped with air pollution control devices that meet the same standards set for automobiles.
10-16-2006, 02:16 PM
#123
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Because this is a thread on Tread Lightly, and I was trying to get across a point that there is a possibility for compromise, I took your post and edited it. I did not change any wording, just took out a couple sections, but what remains (quite a bit of it), the quote posted below, either uphold the principles of, or could have been taken from the Tread Lightly organization information. I understand there is a LOT of room for interpretation in the wording, as with any government document, and the potential for abuse is very apparent, but the two groups are not very far apart on many points. I still maintain that there is a LOT of common ground here.
I'm not a huge fan of the Sierra Club, probably because I have no African big game hunting stories and do not enjoy pipe smoke, but like many organizations not ALL their ideas and principals are bad.
I'm not a huge fan of the Sierra Club, probably because I have no African big game hunting stories and do not enjoy pipe smoke, but like many organizations not ALL their ideas and principals are bad.
1. Use in officially designated wilderness: The Sierra Club reaffirms its support for the Wilderness Act's prohibition of "mechanized modes of transport," including non-motorized vehicles, from entry into designated wilderness.
2. Use of vehicles on other public lands:
a. Trails and areas on public lands should be closed to all vehicles unless
(1) application of objective criteria to assess whether or not environmental quality can be effectively maintained, and whether the safety and enjoyment of all users can be protected;
(3) promulgation of effective implementing regulations where impacts are sufficiently low that vehicle use is appropriate.
c.Trails and areas designated for vehicular use must be monitored periodically to detect environmental damage or user interference inconsistent with the above criteria. Where this occurs, the trail or area must be closed to vehicles unless effective corrective regulations are enforced.
Off-road use of vehicles can present serious and special problems of impact on the environment and incompatibility with other users of the land. Experience has shown that off-road use of vehicles may result in one or more of the following effects:
All vehicles:
1. Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in:
a. Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to streambanks, streams, and fish habitat;
b. Soil compaction and serious adverseimpact on flora and its regeneration; and
c. Degradation of trails, including rutting and breakdown of trail edges.
2. Disruption of wildlife breedingand nesting habitats, especially of vulnerable species, resulting in loss of young;
3. Disturbance of wildlife, leadingto weakened physical condition, death, and possible extinction of some species;
4. Damage to archaeological, scientific,historical and other significant sites, and damage to natural features, sometimes with irreversible effects, especially on rare features of interestfor scientific study;
5. Facilitation of illegal huntingfishing and the talking of game and non-game wildlife;
6. Danger to the safety of other landusers because of vehicle speed, steep terrain, sharp curves, slippery or unstable trail surfaces, and/or limited visibility; and
7. Competition with other land users:vehicle operators, with their increased mobility, generally use a greater quantity of scarce land per recreational user.
Motorized vehicles:
1. Introduction of air and water pollution to areas presently removed from any such sources;
2. Excessive noise, which, in close proximity, may result in physiological effects on animals and humans, or may induce anxiety, altering animal behavior patterns, and which, in mostcircumstances, seriously degrades the solitude of wild areas for other users;
3. Litter: by virtue of mechanization,operators of vehicles carry more gear, with potential to leave more litter;
4. Vandalism: motorized ease of access is often coupled with increase of acts of vandalism on public and private property; and
5. Fire: illegally or improperly operatedvehicles can often create a fire hazard on public or private lands.
Guidelines for Implementation
The following guidelines are not official Club policy. They were developed by the Club's Public Lands Committee to help interpret and implement the policy.
All vehicles:
1. Vehicles should be excluded from areas of fragile, rare, relict, or vanishing vegetation; areas where erosion or other soil or resource damage will occur with their use; wildlife sanctuaries and sensitive areas; areas of fragile natural features or scientific interest; areas of archeological interest; and areas where speed would adversely affect other users of natural areas.
2. If areas or routes are not found unsuitable for vehicle use because of environmental impact or user interference reasons, two additional tests should be made: a. Are the area or route boundaries self-enforcing? Areas and routes from which it would be difficult for irresponsible vehicle users to stray are preferable to those that would require high management activity levels to enforce. b. Is the vehicle use area or route appropriate for the overall area? Regions where less intense use is desirable should have lower densities of vehicle activity than more disturbed regions. Many routes used by vehicles for access would be inappropriate for intensive vehicle play, for example. Also, all but one of several closely parallel routes should often be closed.
3. Educational programs should be initiated to instruct vehicle operators on safety, consideration for others, environmental impact, and on places legal to operate.
4. When using private land, all vehicle operators must have in their possession written permission from the landowner.
5. Trail construction and maintenance workers and trail users should report vehicular trail damage to land managers for possible trail closure or other remedial action.
6. For most effective implementationof policy, local regulations that exceed state and federal standards for control of vehicle use off-road should be encouraged.
7. State, county, and local law enforcement officers should have authority and resources to enforce vehicle and public resource laws on all public land.
8. The Sierra Club does not consider wheelchairs, when used as necessary medical devices, to be vehicles.
Motorized vehicles:
1. Motorized vehicle operators should be tested and licensed on their ability to operate the vehicles and knowledge of all laws relating to vehicle operation off-road.
2. All motorized vehicles used off-road should be licensed and clearly identified for off-road use. The license fee should be placed in a fund designated for the repair of environmental damage caused by vehicles; for personnel and equipment for patrol and law enforcement; for educational services; for financing of continuing studiesof the effects of vehicles on wildlife, vegetation and other elements of the environment disturbed by their use; and for ensuring the safety, peace and enjoyment of the environment by other users.
3. Mufflers and spark-arrestors should be made mandatory on all motorized vehicles used off-road, with provision for periodic inspection.
4. All motorized vehicles used off-road should be equipped with air pollution control devices that meet the same standards set for automobiles.
2. Use of vehicles on other public lands:
a. Trails and areas on public lands should be closed to all vehicles unless
(1) application of objective criteria to assess whether or not environmental quality can be effectively maintained, and whether the safety and enjoyment of all users can be protected;
(3) promulgation of effective implementing regulations where impacts are sufficiently low that vehicle use is appropriate.
c.Trails and areas designated for vehicular use must be monitored periodically to detect environmental damage or user interference inconsistent with the above criteria. Where this occurs, the trail or area must be closed to vehicles unless effective corrective regulations are enforced.
Off-road use of vehicles can present serious and special problems of impact on the environment and incompatibility with other users of the land. Experience has shown that off-road use of vehicles may result in one or more of the following effects:
All vehicles:
1. Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in:
a. Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to streambanks, streams, and fish habitat;
b. Soil compaction and serious adverseimpact on flora and its regeneration; and
c. Degradation of trails, including rutting and breakdown of trail edges.
2. Disruption of wildlife breedingand nesting habitats, especially of vulnerable species, resulting in loss of young;
3. Disturbance of wildlife, leadingto weakened physical condition, death, and possible extinction of some species;
4. Damage to archaeological, scientific,historical and other significant sites, and damage to natural features, sometimes with irreversible effects, especially on rare features of interestfor scientific study;
5. Facilitation of illegal huntingfishing and the talking of game and non-game wildlife;
6. Danger to the safety of other landusers because of vehicle speed, steep terrain, sharp curves, slippery or unstable trail surfaces, and/or limited visibility; and
7. Competition with other land users:vehicle operators, with their increased mobility, generally use a greater quantity of scarce land per recreational user.
Motorized vehicles:
1. Introduction of air and water pollution to areas presently removed from any such sources;
2. Excessive noise, which, in close proximity, may result in physiological effects on animals and humans, or may induce anxiety, altering animal behavior patterns, and which, in mostcircumstances, seriously degrades the solitude of wild areas for other users;
3. Litter: by virtue of mechanization,operators of vehicles carry more gear, with potential to leave more litter;
4. Vandalism: motorized ease of access is often coupled with increase of acts of vandalism on public and private property; and
5. Fire: illegally or improperly operatedvehicles can often create a fire hazard on public or private lands.
Guidelines for Implementation
The following guidelines are not official Club policy. They were developed by the Club's Public Lands Committee to help interpret and implement the policy.
All vehicles:
1. Vehicles should be excluded from areas of fragile, rare, relict, or vanishing vegetation; areas where erosion or other soil or resource damage will occur with their use; wildlife sanctuaries and sensitive areas; areas of fragile natural features or scientific interest; areas of archeological interest; and areas where speed would adversely affect other users of natural areas.
2. If areas or routes are not found unsuitable for vehicle use because of environmental impact or user interference reasons, two additional tests should be made: a. Are the area or route boundaries self-enforcing? Areas and routes from which it would be difficult for irresponsible vehicle users to stray are preferable to those that would require high management activity levels to enforce. b. Is the vehicle use area or route appropriate for the overall area? Regions where less intense use is desirable should have lower densities of vehicle activity than more disturbed regions. Many routes used by vehicles for access would be inappropriate for intensive vehicle play, for example. Also, all but one of several closely parallel routes should often be closed.
3. Educational programs should be initiated to instruct vehicle operators on safety, consideration for others, environmental impact, and on places legal to operate.
4. When using private land, all vehicle operators must have in their possession written permission from the landowner.
5. Trail construction and maintenance workers and trail users should report vehicular trail damage to land managers for possible trail closure or other remedial action.
6. For most effective implementationof policy, local regulations that exceed state and federal standards for control of vehicle use off-road should be encouraged.
7. State, county, and local law enforcement officers should have authority and resources to enforce vehicle and public resource laws on all public land.
8. The Sierra Club does not consider wheelchairs, when used as necessary medical devices, to be vehicles.
Motorized vehicles:
1. Motorized vehicle operators should be tested and licensed on their ability to operate the vehicles and knowledge of all laws relating to vehicle operation off-road.
2. All motorized vehicles used off-road should be licensed and clearly identified for off-road use. The license fee should be placed in a fund designated for the repair of environmental damage caused by vehicles; for personnel and equipment for patrol and law enforcement; for educational services; for financing of continuing studiesof the effects of vehicles on wildlife, vegetation and other elements of the environment disturbed by their use; and for ensuring the safety, peace and enjoyment of the environment by other users.
3. Mufflers and spark-arrestors should be made mandatory on all motorized vehicles used off-road, with provision for periodic inspection.
4. All motorized vehicles used off-road should be equipped with air pollution control devices that meet the same standards set for automobiles.
10-20-2006, 06:04 PM
#124
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I am an active outdoorsman and I believe that the "Tread Lightly" rules are a very important part in keeping our trails open. We have problems in my neck of the woods with enviromentalist wanting and hunting. With the people around here that don't abide by the rules set by the DNR for WMA lands and poach on private land. It makes it a real problem for those of us who don't break the law and do all we can to keep hunting a part of our heritage. Just like others have posted, it is the same with keeping our public off-road parks open. It is our responsibility to abide by these rules in order to keep wheelin something we and our family can enjoy for many more years to come. I have learned a lot from this forum and believe that the majority of people here are very responsible. I want to thank the mods for enforcing the Tread Lightly principles and not tolerating people who flagrantly abuse the land and condone this behavior. Just my .02
10-20-2006, 07:02 PM
#125
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I see a beer can I stop and p/u, I carry a chain saw and a tree top falls across trail I cut and pull to side, If there is a mud hole that can be vented without causing washout I get out shovel...I don't want to look at trash and I want to make my appreciation known to who ever has the say so to close trail...I'm out there to relieve stress not cause it
10-24-2006, 08:05 AM
#126
I've been following this thread for couple of days. It seems that both sides are just doing a shouting match. Some people here just need to do more research for themselves to see what the opposition are doing. Go to websites like http://ufwda.org/ or http://www.corva.org to see what they are doing to sustain our sport.
My club invited speakers from organization like these to speak at our meetings in the past. One of the major emphasis that are common with them is " They are watching you and using any opportunity they can to close the trails that we've been enjoying. It doesn't take much but an irresponsible individual going off the trail.". " Be responsible with the land that these organizations have been working hard to keep them open".
Another thing I want to say is that just because it's a private land, it doesnt mean that you can do anything you want ( atleast here in CA ) on that land. If you want to do anything on your land, you still have to subject yourself to all the environmental impact studies. There are many cases where someone bought the land only to find out that they can not develope into what they want ( including offroading ).
It's not that I'm promoting the " us and them" attitude but if you do your research about the things that Sierra Club and other organizations like them are doing, it's not hard to develope this type of attitude.
I also want to echo something that hasn't been said enough and that is They have the backing of billions of dollars through campaigns like " save our planet " we don't. Some of these organizations that are fighting for our land use have an annual budget of less than $200,000. If you think that auto makers are backing them up, you are wrong. There are only a handfull of full time people working to keep the land open for us. The opposition have tons fulltime and volunteer people just waiting to take pictures of irresponsible wheelers.
Let's not give them any opportunity to close our land. Thank you.
My club invited speakers from organization like these to speak at our meetings in the past. One of the major emphasis that are common with them is " They are watching you and using any opportunity they can to close the trails that we've been enjoying. It doesn't take much but an irresponsible individual going off the trail.". " Be responsible with the land that these organizations have been working hard to keep them open".
Another thing I want to say is that just because it's a private land, it doesnt mean that you can do anything you want ( atleast here in CA ) on that land. If you want to do anything on your land, you still have to subject yourself to all the environmental impact studies. There are many cases where someone bought the land only to find out that they can not develope into what they want ( including offroading ).
It's not that I'm promoting the " us and them" attitude but if you do your research about the things that Sierra Club and other organizations like them are doing, it's not hard to develope this type of attitude.
I also want to echo something that hasn't been said enough and that is They have the backing of billions of dollars through campaigns like " save our planet " we don't. Some of these organizations that are fighting for our land use have an annual budget of less than $200,000. If you think that auto makers are backing them up, you are wrong. There are only a handfull of full time people working to keep the land open for us. The opposition have tons fulltime and volunteer people just waiting to take pictures of irresponsible wheelers.
Let's not give them any opportunity to close our land. Thank you.
10-24-2006, 08:52 AM
#128
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The Sierra Club has morphed from a true environmental movement, way back, to a bunch of lawyers that bring law suits for really trivial matters, intimidating landowners into a settlement that is relatively small compared to what the legal costs could have been. In return for the smaller settlement the landowner is legally sworn to not divulge the matter to the press.
10-24-2006, 09:10 AM
#129
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I have actually enjoyed reading this thread, for one it has really educated me even more then I thought it could about all the different organisations. It has to be a group effort or else we will fall through and the main organizations that want to shut us down will succeed.
Im planning on writing a paper about the different organizations and the "US" who are trying to fight as much as possible do what we love but respect the land that we love as well.
Im glad we are partners with TREAD LIGHTLY, the more we educate our fellow newbie offroaders, the more we have a chance at making this a huge group effort!
Im planning on writing a paper about the different organizations and the "US" who are trying to fight as much as possible do what we love but respect the land that we love as well.
Im glad we are partners with TREAD LIGHTLY, the more we educate our fellow newbie offroaders, the more we have a chance at making this a huge group effort!
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