New Toy...set up comments please

TrlRnnr · 09-03-2007, 07:45 AM

Hey guys, how's it going? I live in Maine and I just purchased an 87 4Runner bone stock. It's in really great shape and the frame on it leads me to believe that this truck did not originate from a highly salted area, or was atleast garaged during the winter.

As for the suspension set up I was thinking on was a 4" Procomp lift with rear replacement springs, 33" Procomp AT's and Procomp series 37 15x10's. Also to include a front ARB Bull bar and 8,000lb winch. All pro rear bumper probably. Now the big question I have for all you vets is what gear ratios should I bump mine up to? I'm going to leave the stock 2.4 in it and I don't know if I should run 4:88's or 4:56's. I would be doing more street driving than offroading but no towing or anything like that. I wouldn't be doing any serious rock crawling either (but I have considered getting atleast 1 locker to put in the rear). So more New England trail crawling than anything. That's why I was leaning more towards 4:88's but I wanted to get everyones opinions first.

Thanks guys
Bryce

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TrlRnnr · 09-03-2007, 08:28 AM

Thought about maybe doing a SaS too but I'm not really sure because there are so many different opinions out there about them and then you have people like me who just want an answer lol. I want my rig to be sturdy, rock hard, reliable, be able to go anywhere and do anything, yet remain somewhat comfortable driving. The way I see it is this, I don't intend on doing any serious rock crawling so I'm not going to need to install a second crawling transfer case or maybe I don't need to even worry about doing a SaS but should I do one just incase I do come across some trail that would have eaten my IFS alive and I would have been thanking myself for going ahead with the swap later? lol, maybe I'm just too paranoid but better be safe than sorry. I'd love to hear some more opinions on this because I've never driven a SaS'd truck and want to know what it's going to drive like before I do it.

Comments please

Thanks

tc · 09-03-2007, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrlRnnr

I want my rig to be sturdy, rock hard, reliable, be able to go anywhere and do anything, yet remain somewhat comfortable driving.

Stock IFS meets all of those requirements. You can fit 33's with much less work and expense than the lift you propose if you stay 10.5" wide - which saves you the cost of new rims too.
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...it.shtml#FAQ10

Armor and lockers will get you farther down the trail (and home) than lift ever will.

http://www.yotatech.com/f120/newbie-...mation-121264/

For example, both my gf and I have '93 4Runners - mine is IFS on 33's, hers is SAS on 35's. She has only 1" more ground clearance than I do, but a MUCH higher center of gravity. My truck is MUCH better on the street than hers, but we generally wheel the same trails and the same obstacles.

Kaleb · 09-03-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc

Stock IFS meets all of those requirements. You can fit 33's with much less work and expense than the lift you propose if you stay 10.5" wide - which saves you the cost of new rims too.
http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...it.shtml#FAQ10

Armor and lockers will get you farther down the trail (and home) than lift ever will.

http://www.yotatech.com/f120/newbie-...mation-121264/

For example, both my gf and I have '93 4Runners - mine is IFS on 33's, hers is SAS on 35's. She has only 1" more ground clearance than I do, but a MUCH higher center of gravity. My truck is MUCH better on the street than hers, but we generally wheel the same trails and the same obstacles.

1" more ground clearance where? Under the axle? There is now way she only has 1" more clearance on the under carriage.

tc · 09-03-2007, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleb

1" more ground clearance where? Under the axle? There is now way she only has 1" more clearance on the under carriage.

Yep - she has 1" more clearance under the frame/body because my gas tank isn't under there and I have Budbuilt skids/crossmember, which illustrates there's more than one way to get ground clearance, some of which are a lot more cost effective than a lift or SAS.

TrlRnnr · 09-03-2007, 07:52 PM

O.k so how about gear ratios? Anyone?

33"s on 15x10's = ?

stock 4cyl

Jay351 · 09-03-2007, 08:21 PM

4.88 provided you have a 5sp

PoleVaulter95 · 09-03-2007, 08:29 PM

if you do go the 33 route (Which i plan to when my 32s and done) you could get some 16inch wheels (since your already going to be buying wheels) and get 255/85/16 super swamper mudterrains (33x10)

dcg9381 · 09-03-2007, 08:38 PM

Go 4.88. It's a little on the high side, but many people are happy with it and the 22RE needs all the help it can get.

Define what you want to do with this rig... The IFS can be lifted, but it's marginally capable as a 4wd vehicle - meaning it'll be good for most moderate trails - almost anything open road.

The mention of a winch or a locker gets me worried.. When you get into that sort of thing, you're talking SAS. If you can't do it yourself, expect to pay $1000-$1500 for the conversion kit, $200 for the axle, $200 for the parts to rebuild it, plus another $1-2k for the labor to get it all done... It's not cheap, but it's capable... After you pick your wallet up off the floor, consider that this is a better option than lifting IFS only to find out that it's not going to cut it later.

Again, moderate off road/trails - the IFS lift is fine.
Want to run the Rubicon, it can be done with IFS and a locker, but I wouldn't recommend it.

tc · 09-03-2007, 09:10 PM

Totally disagree dcg9381.

I have both a IFS and a SAS 4Runner. The IFS will go anywhere the SAS will, the limiting factor is willingness to take body damage (the SAS rig is already beat, so what the hell).

I can quite assure you I spend as much time or more under the SAS rig than I do the IFS rig.

thook · 09-03-2007, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleb

1" more ground clearance where? Under the axle? There is now way she only has 1" more clearance on the under carriage.

How do you figure? Even if tc had the gas tank in it's stock location and a stock crossmember, the 35's only net one more inch clearance period.

Furthermore, how true is this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by fork

...... there are a lot of benefits to IFS also. it's a lot more comfortable on the pavement I think. it handles nicely at freeway speeds. the ground clearance from the center of the crossmember is a little higher than a straight axle.

My question to TriRnnr is why such wide rims? How wide a tire are you wanting?

Kaleb · 09-04-2007, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thook

How do you figure? Even if tc had the gas tank in it's stock location and a stock crossmember, the 35's only net one more inch clearance period.

Well if you sas a rig with a typical kit like marlin crawler, all-pro, or trail gear you are also lifting it.

Lets say he went with the 4 inch springs.

The spring hanger that adds 1" of lift.

The 2.5" over sized shackles add 1.25" of lift.

The 4" over springs adds 4" of lift.

The 35" tire size compared to a 33" tire adds 1" more of lift.

1" + 1.25" + 4" + 1" = 7.25" of total lift.

So his sas'd rig should have tons more clearance then his ifs rig. Unless he did not go with one of the typical kits, or used different parts.

He said that his "gas tank isn't under there" and that he has bud built cross members. If he were to do the same thing to the sas'd rig, then the sas'd rig would ave tons more ground clearance then the ifs rig.

But none the less if his gas tank was in the stock location, and he had oem cross members then the sas'd rig would have much more clearance then the ifs rig would have.

tc · 09-04-2007, 11:57 AM

Yeah, but the point is, there is a certain pool of money available for mods to your rig. All I'm saying is you can get the same amount of ground clearance other, more cost effective, ways than a SAS.

In my experience 'wheeling, articulation/flex does the LEAST for your truck's capability offroad. BTW - in order: lockers, armor, gears, ground clearance, articulation. If you do mud, you could put tread pattern in there after armor.

TrlRnnr · 09-04-2007, 12:56 PM

First I'd like to say thanks for all the great info and mechanical lingo. I'm not that mechanically inclined and all the jargon is pretty confusing because I'm a newb when it comes to all this stuff. I bought an 88 4Runner some years back and put in a skyjacker 4" lift and ran 33" Super Swamper Radial TSL's and I really enjoyed trail riding. Most of the riding I plan on doing is going to be on back New England trails. Mud, rocks, dips, maybe a fallen small tree here or there, maybe even a small river crossing. I'm sure the IFS will be fine for what I want to do it was just that I couldn't get one simple thing I read somewhere out of my head and that was "the IFS system brought in too many moving parts and thus went for a more "comfy" ride set up rather than strength". But I don't plan on driving out to Arizona or wherever and doing the Rubicon. Hell I don't even plan on doing any rockcrawling here in Maine lol.

To thook: I said I was going to go with 15x10's because that's what I thought was recommended for 33x12.50's, in order to not cause them to "bubble" so much. Am I wrong?

To Jay351: My rig is an automatic. Why does it matter if it's a manual or auto when it comes to gearing? So should I not go with 4:88's then?

So basically what I'm hearing from this thread is I should be fine with doing the 4" IFS lift, running 33's and regearing to 4:88's for weekend offroading and some possible moderately difficult trails. So that said, should I then add the locker if It's going to be my daily driver too?

Thanks again for all your info guys

tc · 09-04-2007, 02:44 PM

First - the purported "weakness" of IFS is exaggerated on the Internet by people who have lifted too much and too cheaply. Your best bet with the IFS is to stay stock height (or close). I have had NO issues with mine, and I wheel some hard stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrlRnnr

To thook: I said I was going to go with 15x10's because that's what I thought was recommended for 33x12.50's, in order to not cause them to "bubble" so much. Am I wrong?

First, you can fit 33x10.50 with NO lift. Why spend the extra $ for lift and wheels when you get the same clearance under the diff and the same traction with the narrower tire? (I'll grant you the selection is a lot better in 33x12.50 than 33x10.50)

The rule of thumb is 4", if you're gonna be on the trail, 2" isn't enough. There isn't enough "bulge" in the side of the tire to protect the rims. When I ran 9.50's on 8" rims, I took A LOT of rim damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrlRnnr

To Jay351: My rig is an automatic. Why does it matter if it's a manual or auto when it comes to gearing? So should I not go with 4:88's then?

It matters if you're gonna drive on the highway. The issue is the top gear, not first. The overdrive in the automatics is so damn tall that the engine won't pull it if you have the same gears as a manual tranny. IMHO, 4.88's in undergeared from the factory for 31's. I would seriously consider 5.71's for 33's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrlRnnr

So basically what I'm hearing from this thread is I should be fine with doing the 4" IFS lift, running 33's and regearing to 4:88's for weekend offroading and some possible moderately difficult trails. So that said, should I then add the locker if It's going to be my daily driver too?

As mentioned above - reconsider the lift. Gear to 5.71. Definitely put in a locker. Since you saved almost $1000 by not doing the lift, splurge on the locker and get an ARB or elocker, then it won't affect your daily driving.

nmtoy · 09-04-2007, 05:53 PM

I wouldn't waste your money on a "bracket lift" You don't need 4 inches of lift to fit 33x10.50.

You could do Ball joint spacers, longer shocks, some pinch weld hammering and new leaf springs in the rear for less than the front bracket lift would cost. Put the money you saved toward a rear locker and 4.88 gears.

You can fit a 33x10.50 on a 7 inch rim with 3 3/4" to 4'" backspacing with the above setup. I also recommend and IFS truss like the Sonoran Steel one and also some sliders.

If you really want 33x12.50 and a 4 inch lift that's cool, we are just pointing out that there are different ways to set up your truck.

Here is a pic of my 86 with the above setup, (I still need sliders)

Robb

dijlop · 09-04-2007, 06:16 PM

first thing first, if you want capability offroad, you need a locker. armor is always a good idea too, but truthfully, if i ever plan on takin my truck out on rocks, id probally make my own stuff and bolt it on.

all i can really say is, i have ifs, always have, probally always will. a locker has made my off-road experiance incredibly better, tire tread is also important. basically, tires, lockers. those are my top items.

TrlRnnr · 09-04-2007, 07:00 PM

O.k some more great answers. I love it. Now what about Old Man Emu. They make a complete 2" kit for my year 4Runner and it includes, shocks, springs and torsion bars. Have any of you guys had an experience with this lift because I was also looking at this as an option.

Thanks again

4Crawler · 09-04-2007, 07:17 PM

As long as you a planning to install a winch bumper and winch up front, the added stiffness of the larger dia. torsion bars will be OK with the OME kit. You'll need the increased spring rate to handle the added weight of the winch and bumper. You could also add a ball joint spacer up front for better suspension travel:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...ntSpacer.shtml

For 33x12.50 tires, 15x8 wheels are a good fit, will work OK on the road and will work better off-road, airs down better, less likely to lose a bead and the tire will help protect the lip of the rim from damage. Or save some $$$ and put 33x10.50 tires on the stock wheels. Will take even less lift to fit, especially compared to running a 15x10 wheel:
- http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...it.shtml#FAQ10

TrlRnnr · 09-04-2007, 08:03 PM

Outstanding. Thank you so much guys for all your valuable information, I think I've finally come to a conclusion about what I'm going to do. I think after much deliberation I'm going to go with the 2" OME setup and 33x12.50's on 15x8's with the ball joint spacers as well. I still haven't settled on which gear ratios to run though but I'm actually leaning more towards 5:71 now that it was mentioned in such a positive light.

Thanks again for your time and I'll put up some pics and mod progress as they come.

Bryce

09-03-2007, 08:28 AM	#2 (permalink)
TrlRnnr Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Skowhegan, Maine Posts: 33	Thought about maybe doing a SaS too but I'm not really sure because there are so many different opinions out there about them and then you have people like me who just want an answer lol. I want my rig to be sturdy, rock hard, reliable, be able to go anywhere and do anything, yet remain somewhat comfortable driving. The way I see it is this, I don't intend on doing any serious rock crawling so I'm not going to need to install a second crawling transfer case or maybe I don't need to even worry about doing a SaS but should I do one just incase I do come across some trail that would have eaten my IFS alive and I would have been thanking myself for going ahead with the swap later? lol, maybe I'm just too paranoid but better be safe than sorry. I'd love to hear some more opinions on this because I've never driven a SaS'd truck and want to know what it's going to drive like before I do it. Comments please Thanks __________________ 1987 4Runner, bone stock and just waiting to be dressed up

09-03-2007, 07:52 PM	#6 (permalink)
TrlRnnr Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Skowhegan, Maine Posts: 33	O.k so how about gear ratios? Anyone? 33"s on 15x10's = ? stock 4cyl __________________ 1987 4Runner, bone stock and just waiting to be dressed up

09-03-2007, 08:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
Jay351 Contributing Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: maple ridge, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 8,640	4.88 provided you have a 5sp __________________ 91 Pickup - xcab - 5sp - 3.0 - SR5 - 4x4 - 250k \|2.25" catback w/ magnaflow cat + glasspack \| Weasy2k cams \| Aisin manual hubs \| Diff breather mod\| Marlin HD clutch \|3" BL \| es3000's \|2" AAL \|1.5" bj spacers \| ISR \| Alpine headunit \| 4" Infinity fronts/5" rears \| 4.88's \|Rear lockright \| 33x12.50" BFG M/T on 15x8" steelies \|Hella 500's \|4" reverse lights\| Grant GT \|idler arm brace\|hella E-codes\| Marlin armor \|SS IFS brace \| %100 Amsoil synthetic http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2572486

09-03-2007, 08:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
PoleVaulter95 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 229	if you do go the 33 route (Which i plan to when my 32s and done) you could get some 16inch wheels (since your already going to be buying wheels) and get 255/85/16 super swamper mudterrains (33x10) __________________ 95 4runner 3.0 auto downey torsion bars and hd springs 32 khumos and way to much spray paint

09-03-2007, 08:38 PM	#9 (permalink)
dcg9381 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: austin, tx Posts: 1,825	Go 4.88. It's a little on the high side, but many people are happy with it and the 22RE needs all the help it can get. Define what you want to do with this rig... The IFS can be lifted, but it's marginally capable as a 4wd vehicle - meaning it'll be good for most moderate trails - almost anything open road. The mention of a winch or a locker gets me worried.. When you get into that sort of thing, you're talking SAS. If you can't do it yourself, expect to pay $1000-$1500 for the conversion kit, $200 for the axle, $200 for the parts to rebuild it, plus another $1-2k for the labor to get it all done... It's not cheap, but it's capable... After you pick your wallet up off the floor, consider that this is a better option than lifting IFS only to find out that it's not going to cut it later. Again, moderate off road/trails - the IFS lift is fine. Want to run the Rubicon, it can be done with IFS and a locker, but I wouldn't recommend it. __________________ http://www.22REturbo.net

09-03-2007, 09:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,376	Totally disagree dcg9381. I have both a IFS and a SAS 4Runner. The IFS will go anywhere the SAS will, the limiting factor is willingness to take body damage (the SAS rig is already beat, so what the hell). I can quite assure you I spend as much time or more under the SAS rig than I do the IFS rig. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

09-04-2007, 11:57 AM	#13 (permalink)
tc Contributing Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 8,376	Yeah, but the point is, there is a certain pool of money available for mods to your rig. All I'm saying is you can get the same amount of ground clearance other, more cost effective, ways than a SAS. In my experience 'wheeling, articulation/flex does the LEAST for your truck's capability offroad. BTW - in order: lockers, armor, gears, ground clearance, articulation. If you do mud, you could put tread pattern in there after armor. __________________ Check out www.coTTORA.org to hook up with great Toyota 'wheelin' folks! Current - 93 4Runner: 3VZ 33"x10.50" no lift ARB F/R 96 Impala SS: My own personal cop car Previous - 89 2WD Pickup 22R, Fabtech "Ivan Dan" lift, 31x10.50, IASCA World Finals 4th Place Stop with the mods and get on the trail! Pix at www.4wheelingoh.shutterfly.com/action

09-04-2007, 12:56 PM	#14 (permalink)
TrlRnnr Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Skowhegan, Maine Posts: 33	First I'd like to say thanks for all the great info and mechanical lingo. I'm not that mechanically inclined and all the jargon is pretty confusing because I'm a newb when it comes to all this stuff. I bought an 88 4Runner some years back and put in a skyjacker 4" lift and ran 33" Super Swamper Radial TSL's and I really enjoyed trail riding. Most of the riding I plan on doing is going to be on back New England trails. Mud, rocks, dips, maybe a fallen small tree here or there, maybe even a small river crossing. I'm sure the IFS will be fine for what I want to do it was just that I couldn't get one simple thing I read somewhere out of my head and that was "the IFS system brought in too many moving parts and thus went for a more "comfy" ride set up rather than strength". But I don't plan on driving out to Arizona or wherever and doing the Rubicon. Hell I don't even plan on doing any rockcrawling here in Maine lol. To thook: I said I was going to go with 15x10's because that's what I thought was recommended for 33x12.50's, in order to not cause them to "bubble" so much. Am I wrong? To Jay351: My rig is an automatic. Why does it matter if it's a manual or auto when it comes to gearing? So should I not go with 4:88's then? So basically what I'm hearing from this thread is I should be fine with doing the 4" IFS lift, running 33's and regearing to 4:88's for weekend offroading and some possible moderately difficult trails. So that said, should I then add the locker if It's going to be my daily driver too? Thanks again for all your info guys __________________ 1987 4Runner, bone stock and just waiting to be dressed up

09-04-2007, 05:53 PM	#16 (permalink)
nmtoy Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 517	I wouldn't waste your money on a "bracket lift" You don't need 4 inches of lift to fit 33x10.50. You could do Ball joint spacers, longer shocks, some pinch weld hammering and new leaf springs in the rear for less than the front bracket lift would cost. Put the money you saved toward a rear locker and 4.88 gears. You can fit a 33x10.50 on a 7 inch rim with 3 3/4" to 4'" backspacing with the above setup. I also recommend and IFS truss like the Sonoran Steel one and also some sliders. If you really want 33x12.50 and a 4 inch lift that's cool, we are just pointing out that there are different ways to set up your truck. Here is a pic of my 86 with the above setup, (I still need sliders) Robb __________________ 92 2wd extracab, 22RE, auto, 16" Mustang wheels, 225x16 BFG Supersport, antisway bars, KYB shocks, 01 4runner buckets, Grant wheel 86 4runner SR5, 22RE, 5 speed, Sold 90 extracab DLX, 3.0, 5 speed, Sold!

09-04-2007, 06:16 PM	#17 (permalink)
dijlop Registered User Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: fl Posts: 1,169	first thing first, if you want capability offroad, you need a locker. armor is always a good idea too, but truthfully, if i ever plan on takin my truck out on rocks, id probally make my own stuff and bolt it on. all i can really say is, i have ifs, always have, probally always will. a locker has made my off-road experiance incredibly better, tire tread is also important. basically, tires, lockers. those are my top items. __________________ Dead '94 2.4L 22re 2wd pu, k&n air filter, thrush glasspack, 4in over stock rear shackles, 1.5in ball joint spacers, 4in infinity reference dash speakers, pioneer head unit, 10in p2 sub, alpine amp. bed cap topper thingy. great for campin. Current-2004 toyota tacoma, 2wd, 3.4L, prerunner, e-locker, tow package, trd package, ext cab, alpine head unit, polk speakers all around, punch p2 10" run off a alpine mono amp, silver paint. ohhhh its purty...

09-04-2007, 07:00 PM	#18 (permalink)
TrlRnnr Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Skowhegan, Maine Posts: 33	O.k some more great answers. I love it. Now what about Old Man Emu. They make a complete 2" kit for my year 4Runner and it includes, shocks, springs and torsion bars. Have any of you guys had an experience with this lift because I was also looking at this as an option. Thanks again __________________ 1987 4Runner, bone stock and just waiting to be dressed up

09-04-2007, 07:17 PM	#19 (permalink)
4Crawler Contributing Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 7,832	As long as you a planning to install a winch bumper and winch up front, the added stiffness of the larger dia. torsion bars will be OK with the OME kit. You'll need the increased spring rate to handle the added weight of the winch and bumper. You could also add a ball joint spacer up front for better suspension travel: - http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...ntSpacer.shtml For 33x12.50 tires, 15x8 wheels are a good fit, will work OK on the road and will work better off-road, airs down better, less likely to lose a bead and the tire will help protect the lip of the rim from damage. Or save some $$$ and put 33x10.50 tires on the stock wheels. Will take even less lift to fit, especially compared to running a 15x10 wheel: - http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/...it.shtml#FAQ10 __________________ 1985 Toyota 4Runner SR-5, 22REC engine, dual t-cases, 4.88 gears, dual ARBs, 33x10.50 BFGs or 35x12.50 MTRs r.c.brown@ieee.org TruckEditor@tlca.org Project: 4Crawler 4Crawler OffRoad Gettin'Off 4WD Club

09-04-2007, 08:03 PM	#20 (permalink)
TrlRnnr Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Skowhegan, Maine Posts: 33	Outstanding. Thank you so much guys for all your valuable information, I think I've finally come to a conclusion about what I'm going to do. I think after much deliberation I'm going to go with the 2" OME setup and 33x12.50's on 15x8's with the ball joint spacers as well. I still haven't settled on which gear ratios to run though but I'm actually leaning more towards 5:71 now that it was mentioned in such a positive light. Thanks again for your time and I'll put up some pics and mod progress as they come. Bryce __________________ 1987 4Runner, bone stock and just waiting to be dressed up

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