Trainwreckinseattle

Hey now don't be talkin that jive. These things last FOREVER that's why I'm up to my rear end in rebuilding these things.

But really, *properly* taken care of they can last quite a long time. I think what happens is that people get in their head that "they last forever" and so neglect them to death. Which drastically shortens what could have been a long life.

saitotiktmdog

Just been skimming but look at LCE for a thcker head gasket and or spacers.

yotafreakshow

If anything with the block other than cylinder bore is out of spec, Toyota FSM says ("replace the block" *see engine block sub-assembly)...that's why they don't have a spec, they don't want to suggest decking a warped surface, probably because it affects piston protrusion and timing and throws out factory specs, and how would they make money with people like us remanufacturing those blocks for 2 or 3 times what they expect them to last. I priced one from Toyota a while back just for fun and it was re-diculous what they wanted for a short block. (something like $3500).

saitotiktmdog

Is it possible that you have the wrong year block. The later 22RE (with the shorter deck height) had keyhole shaped exhaust ports. There were available 22RE models that used the earlier 22R head, in the 1982 to 1984 Celica GTS. All 22RE from 1985 used the later blocks and heads.

yotafreakshow

checked that stuff early on just to be sure, it's all what the truck came with, or at least direct replacements of it. this is an 87, bone stock

saitotiktmdog

Just checking.

yotafreakshow

Rock advertises a .012 destroke on their pistons (engnbldr mentions this # several times in his articles on 4x4wire), not .032 like you mentioned...I am having trouble getting the ITM destroked pistons - not in stock anywhere in the US and I need something that will work here...if Rocks are indeed destoked .032", that would be perfect. Is that based on your experience, or a spec somewhere?
As my worst case scenario, I have another block core to start over with... it would suck to have wasted $ on machining the current block.

Trainwreckinseattle

Yes unless they have very recently changed they are decked farther than what is indicated on the box.

yotafreakshow

found some enginetech pistons with the same spec as the destroked itm's. it seems that all the interchange charts list the rocks, itm destroked, enginetech, silvolite as having a 1.355 compression height (center of pin to top of piston), and stock pistons are 1.378...so it seems they are all destroked by .023". ITM does make a standard replacement with no destroke-which is what i got from the machine shop in the first place. I slid one of them and a stock piston on a pin together and they are the same, I got one of the destroked itm pistons thinking i was ordering a set (according to the website description), but it was the only one (single) in the country. I slid it on a pin with the stock piston and it measured .023 lower just to ease my curiosity, it also measured .012 over deck mocked up in the engine. no one probably cares at this point, but i post this in case someone else runs into these issues in the future, or reads this and avoids them altogether
I chose the enginetechs because they and silvolite's were the only ones i could find an actual compression height spec on. their particular websites.

Trainwreckinseattle

We all thank you very much for taking the extra time to keep us all informed. this type of detailed information is exactly what helps people make informed decisions.

Keep up the good work !!

Olas

What shop did you use? (for my future reference) I used Gunn Automotive in Denver and they knew their 22r's pretty well and had a decent turn around time along with great communication.

yotafreakshow

not gunn, and i'd rather not say. they did quality work, quick turnaround, maybe not so knowledgeable about 22r's and their specific needs though

MudHippy

ACTUALLY what is says is this:

Quote:

4. INSPECT CYLINDER BLOCK WARPAGE
Warpage limit: 0.5 mm (0.0020 in.)

If warpage is greater than specified value, replace the

cylinder block.

So you're saying that you checked the block for warpage and it was warped greater than .5mm/.002"?

How bad was it?

I'm not just trying to "rub your nose in it".

I just feel it's important to know exactly where one makes a mistake to avoid doing so in the future.

yotafreakshow

i didn't check it before i took it in, again i left it in their hands and trusted (we'll call it blind faith at his point) them to do the right thing. as you mentioned in an earlier post, they are in business to machine things and make $$, so i should have been more proactive and specific...i won't be making these mistakes in the future, if i do this again, and it seems that i love toyota trucks, so someday i will likely end up doing this again.

yotafreakshow

Anyways...engine is assembled, installed, and runs great. It has good power right away, and runs quiet and smooth. After installing the destroked pistons, I still had about .012 above the deck, and after I had a chance to measure a stock setup, I found that they averaged .015 or so above deck, so I decided not to worry about it any more and finish the project. I'm happy I did! Thanks for all of the input everyone.

xxxtreme22r

good deal you freak. hahaa couldn't resist. Anyway, give it about 500-1000 miles or so and check to see what your compression is. or you can be lazy like me and do it at 6500 miles lol. I came up with 170-173 (the 173 is probably just gauge error) on all cyls. with my setup. Mine is right at the max spec for the 22r(re) according to the FSM. Which I have no doubt is why I can't run anything higher than maybe 3 degrees BTDC on mine without it running like crap. Yeah I know the carbed motors are only supposed to be 0 degrees, but some guys on here are running like 8-10 BTDC with success on the carbed motors.

EDIT: Also don't forget because of the shaved block, your cam timing without a doubt will be off a few degrees. I don't know exactly by how much as there has been conflicting numbers for each thous taken off the block/head and how many degrees on the cam timing. I believe the cam timing gets retarded not advanced when the block or head is shaved down. But I could be wrong. ENGNBLDR says some people like it that way though since if the retarding is within reason (I think he said 3 degrees or so I can't rememeber). I also can't rememebr which direction it shifts. I think it's up the rpm band, but not 100% sure. Oharley might know this answer. ONly way to correct this at the moment is with LCE's cam gear. Or if the head/block has been shaved minimally a head shim. Which in your case is out of the question.

yotafreakshow

I'll probably only check the compression if I have an issue. It runs strong, smooth and quiet right now @5 degrees btdc timing (spec for efi) so I don't honestly care. I don't think the compression was affected enough to cause any audible detonation issues, pinging, etc. As far as cam timing goes, shaving the block retards it slightly.I also don't know if the power band moved up on the rpm scale, I can't tell because I haven't really broken it in enough to really open it up RPM wise. It ran with so much less before with compression sneaking into the crankcase, and we're at over 10,000 feet in elevation, so for this thing to actually feel snappy like it does now, makes me pretty happy. A dyno could pick up the subtle differences, not the seat of the pants test though.
I spent alot of time cleaning out the plenum, throttle body, and intake, replaced cracked vent hoses, pcv, cold idle valve and spent time adjusting the throttle plate closing angle, tps, dashpot, idle screw was way off(probably to compensate for the bad auxiliary air valve)and generally making sure the efi system was properly tuned and adjusted so the engine would run happy, not just run ok and slowly destroy itself again. I had several moments during that process where i was thinking to myself and sometimes saying out loud "well, that explains why that was happening." So I'm sure I made up a little power and throttle response there too. At the end of the day, I think as long as one pays attention to detail and doesn't overthink it (I may be guilty) too much, you can build yourself a much nicer (osk timing, metal guide rails, toyota gaskets, etc.) motor for about the same price as one of the cheaper rebuilt long blocks you see advertised, and you know where it's been. One word of advice, measure everything as you disassemble the core, then you have references when it is time to reassemble!

freedyv200

kinda random, newbie, bt i was wondering is der a difference on a stock head gasket thickness from a 88' 22re to a 94' 22re