Clutch Adjust revisited

rdharper · 10-19-2006, 04:58 PM

Very specific question: If I increase freeplay, will the clutch engage sooner, closer to floor as you let it out, or later, farther from the floor... or not at all.

I think it will engage sooner, after reading three separate manuals, but I'm not sure.

Thanks.

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AH64ID · 10-20-2006, 03:38 AM

If you increase free play you will decrease clutch throw, thus not fully disengauging.

rdharper · 10-20-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH64ID

If you increase free play you will decrease clutch throw, thus not fully disengauging.

John; Terms... alla time terms. You voted for the first option then, right?

By clutch throw, you mean the distance from the floor to the point the clutch starts to engage... or the distance from the floor to max pedal height.

The way the adjustments work, as I understand the manuals, is that freeplay is checked/adjusted first, then pedal height. The freeplay adjust is the rod going through the firewall, and the pedal height adjust is high up on the pedal arm.

AH64ID · 10-20-2006, 02:00 PM

If I understand what the install instructions on new clutches tells me, the freepay directly affects the throw. The "throw" being how far the cluch pressure plate is moved. All the pedal and throwout bearing movement is going for a .030 gap between pressure plate and clutch surface.

The pedal only moves x"es, if you make the freeplay longer you get less throw of the throwout bearing, thus not a full .030 gap, decreasing shiftablility and clutch life, may also cause damage to synchros.

IIRC Centerforce voids any warrenty if you dont adjust your freeplay to stock measurments.. IMO set it stock and leave it, I dont think there is a way to make the clutch engauge sooner.

rdharper · 10-20-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH64ID

If I understand what the install instructions on new clutches tells me, the freepay directly affects the throw. The "throw" being how far the cluch pressure plate is moved. All the pedal and throwout bearing movement is going for a .030 gap between pressure plate and clutch surface.

The pedal only moves x"es, if you make the freeplay longer you get less throw of the throwout bearing, thus not a full .030 gap, decreasing shiftablility and clutch life, may also cause damage to synchros.

IIRC Centerforce voids any warrenty if you dont adjust your freeplay to stock measurments.. IMO set it stock and leave it, I dont think there is a way to make the clutch engauge sooner.

Thanks John, that makes sense.

In affect, if your adjustements are correct, the clutch engagement point is a measure of clutch wear. If the point is high, you can assume wear.

The spec. on the 2nd generation (according to Chilton's) is 0.2-0.59".

If I adjust to the max of 0.59, there is nothing more I can do short of getting the clutch replaced/rebuilt whatever.

I'll run right out and try to accurately gauge where mine is set.

I'm a big guy, getting in there to make the adjustment is not easy for me, at my age. If I'm not back soon, call the paramedics.

AH64ID · 10-20-2006, 07:06 PM

In both of my rigs that I have dont clutches in the freeplay has been set and I havent had to worry about it at all. On my 95 the clutch was on its last leg when I changed it, and I did notice that the clucth seemed to engauge sooner on clutch letout.

rdharper · 10-20-2006, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AH64ID

In both of my rigs that I have dont clutches in the freeplay has been set and I havent had to worry about it at all. On my 95 the clutch was on its last leg when I changed it, and I did notice that the clucth seemed to engauge sooner on clutch letout.

I was able to check the freeplay, and it is already at its max. I don't have any problems with slipping, just don't like the way it engages so far out from the floor.

I usually note this "problem" when I'm in town when the vehicle is warmed up completely. When I went out to check the freeplay more carefully, I also checked the engage point while the vehicle was cold. It is "normal" at this point. So I did some checks on "spongy clutch" which is not quite accurate but was the closest I could come up with. From that reading, it looks like my Dot 3 fluid is "dark", not the original color.

The consensus seems to be that this is a product of small beads of rubber from the seals. Seems reasonable, although again, I have no other symptoms.

I might try changing it out, or just wait until a pattern develops that is more troublesome. Bought the 4Runner in may, and the whole thing was meticuosly clean, almost suspiciously so. But I've found everything to be in good working order since then. I think the guy (a high end restorer type that used the vehicle for his trips to Tahoe) just kept the thing up very well.

Maybe I just don't have enough to worry about in my old age... lol.

Anyway, thanks for the help, and good fortune on your upcoming first child. Those were good years for me, they grow up too fast. So enjoy the time ahead.

AH64ID · 10-20-2006, 07:39 PM

I have always been told dark clucth master fluid means a bad master.. changed the one on my 95, didnt notice a difference.

vwfastg60 · 10-25-2006, 06:02 AM

not to jack the thred but my 87 is having a weird problem.I just replaced the clutch,Blead it and thats it. now as time goes on i notice i have to relly slam the pedal to the floor to get it to disengage smoothly.If i dont its notchy as hell. How do i adjust the freeplay cause there maybe an inch at the top of the pedal before you feel anything.ITs been like that from the day i got the truck to now,I guess i didnt notice it cause i never drove it much.Now its my daily and if i get the slightest bit lazy and dont mas it or wear boots and cant mash it i look like i never have drivin a 5speed before.

thanks
Russell the newb

rdharper · 10-25-2006, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwfastg60

not to jack the thred but my 87 is having a weird problem.I just replaced the clutch,Blead it and thats it. now as time goes on i notice i have to relly slam the pedal to the floor to get it to disengage smoothly.If i dont its notchy as hell. How do i adjust the freeplay cause there maybe an inch at the top of the pedal before you feel anything.ITs been like that from the day i got the truck to now,I guess i didnt notice it cause i never drove it much.Now its my daily and if i get the slightest bit lazy and dont mas it or wear boots and cant mash it i look like i never have drivin a 5speed before.

thanks
Russell the newb

Sounds like air in the system.. I'd try bleeding the line again. I assume you have the same master and slave.

Since you said you had the problem before the clutch was replaced, you could well have a seal problem in the master and or slave. No expert here, but I'd try bleeding the line again, if you get no improvement, I'd change the fluid. If still no change, I'd consider the master as the probable problem.

Have you done a search... lots of experience from others on this subject.

vwfastg60 · 10-26-2006, 06:41 PM

well theres no change when its blead and never has. Theres no air in the lines but the fluid was sitting a while...I may try to flush everything cause i want to change all the fluid in there to ATE Super blue.I was thinking there was a manual adjustment to adjust the amount of freeplay....I think i need a factory manual cause the chiltons book is worthless with the toyota like it is with my vw.

rdharper · 10-26-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwfastg60

well theres no change when its blead and never has. Theres no air in the lines but the fluid was sitting a while...I may try to flush everything cause i want to change all the fluid in there to ATE Super blue.I was thinking there was a manual adjustment to adjust the amount of freeplay....I think i need a factory manual cause the chiltons book is worthless with the toyota like it is with my vw.

Yes, there is an adjustment on freeplay... if you look at the rod that goes through the firewall, on the pedal side, there is a locknut which allows you to rotate the rod.

The spec is 0.2 - 0.59 " freeplay. After adjustment, check pedal height. Forgot the spec on that, but the adjustment is up near the top of the pedal arm.

mr toytech · 10-26-2006, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwfastg60

not to jack the thred but my 87 is having a weird problem.I just replaced the clutch,Blead it and thats it. now as time goes on i notice i have to relly slam the pedal to the floor to get it to disengage smoothly.If i dont its notchy as hell. How do i adjust the freeplay cause there maybe an inch at the top of the pedal before you feel anything.ITs been like that from the day i got the truck to now,I guess i didnt notice it cause i never drove it much.Now its my daily and if i get the slightest bit lazy and dont mas it or wear boots and cant mash it i look like i never have drivin a 5speed before.

thanks
Russell the newb

sounds like a bad master cylinder to me

View Poll Results: Clutch adjustment of freeplay
Increasing freeplay will lower clutch engagement point	9	75.00%
Increasing freeplay will raise clutch engagement point	2	16.67%
Increasing freeplay will not affect clutch engagement point	1	8.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

10-20-2006, 03:38 AM	#2 (permalink)
AH64ID Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,637	If you increase free play you will decrease clutch throw, thus not fully disengauging. __________________ -John '05 Dodge 3500 SRW 4x4 SLT 5.9 Cummins QC LB NV5600 2003 SR5 4Runner, V6 4WD. 1" cornfed lift Previous Toyota's '92 Red Truck NALA Speed doesn't kill, its the sudden stop that hurts.

10-20-2006, 02:00 PM	#4 (permalink)
AH64ID Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,637	If I understand what the install instructions on new clutches tells me, the freepay directly affects the throw. The "throw" being how far the cluch pressure plate is moved. All the pedal and throwout bearing movement is going for a .030 gap between pressure plate and clutch surface. The pedal only moves x"es, if you make the freeplay longer you get less throw of the throwout bearing, thus not a full .030 gap, decreasing shiftablility and clutch life, may also cause damage to synchros. IIRC Centerforce voids any warrenty if you dont adjust your freeplay to stock measurments.. IMO set it stock and leave it, I dont think there is a way to make the clutch engauge sooner. __________________ -John '05 Dodge 3500 SRW 4x4 SLT 5.9 Cummins QC LB NV5600 2003 SR5 4Runner, V6 4WD. 1" cornfed lift Previous Toyota's '92 Red Truck NALA Speed doesn't kill, its the sudden stop that hurts.

10-20-2006, 07:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
AH64ID Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,637	In both of my rigs that I have dont clutches in the freeplay has been set and I havent had to worry about it at all. On my 95 the clutch was on its last leg when I changed it, and I did notice that the clucth seemed to engauge sooner on clutch letout. __________________ -John '05 Dodge 3500 SRW 4x4 SLT 5.9 Cummins QC LB NV5600 2003 SR5 4Runner, V6 4WD. 1" cornfed lift Previous Toyota's '92 Red Truck NALA Speed doesn't kill, its the sudden stop that hurts.

10-20-2006, 07:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
AH64ID Contributing Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Idaho Posts: 4,637	I have always been told dark clucth master fluid means a bad master.. changed the one on my 95, didnt notice a difference. __________________ -John '05 Dodge 3500 SRW 4x4 SLT 5.9 Cummins QC LB NV5600 2003 SR5 4Runner, V6 4WD. 1" cornfed lift Previous Toyota's '92 Red Truck NALA Speed doesn't kill, its the sudden stop that hurts.

10-25-2006, 06:02 AM	#9 (permalink)
vwfastg60 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Longmont Colorado Posts: 725	not to jack the thred but my 87 is having a weird problem.I just replaced the clutch,Blead it and thats it. now as time goes on i notice i have to relly slam the pedal to the floor to get it to disengage smoothly.If i dont its notchy as hell. How do i adjust the freeplay cause there maybe an inch at the top of the pedal before you feel anything.ITs been like that from the day i got the truck to now,I guess i didnt notice it cause i never drove it much.Now its my daily and if i get the slightest bit lazy and dont mas it or wear boots and cant mash it i look like i never have drivin a 5speed before. thanks Russell the newb __________________ 87 longbed, 3rz, tacoma dash, bobbed, SAS'ed, gears and more. My build----HERE More web wheeling- Just getting started so come join us Asphaltsux

10-26-2006, 06:41 PM	#11 (permalink)
vwfastg60 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Longmont Colorado Posts: 725	well theres no change when its blead and never has. Theres no air in the lines but the fluid was sitting a while...I may try to flush everything cause i want to change all the fluid in there to ATE Super blue.I was thinking there was a manual adjustment to adjust the amount of freeplay....I think i need a factory manual cause the chiltons book is worthless with the toyota like it is with my vw. __________________ 87 longbed, 3rz, tacoma dash, bobbed, SAS'ed, gears and more. My build----HERE More web wheeling- Just getting started so come join us Asphaltsux

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