Berniep

First off, thanks to everyone who has helped me so far and didn't even know it.

I have just rebuilt my 89 22re I have built(for a racing Celica) and rebuilt 20r motors in the past so I kinda know what I am doing, or at least I thought I did until now. The head was shaved 20 thousandths to flatten it. When I first started it up it seemed to run fine but the ignition timing mark on the pulley was way to the left of the timing gauge and could not be advanced (Or is it retarded I can never keep the terminology straight) enough to bring it in specs and even if you tried it would not idle. Extending the guage it would be at about 15 or 20 degrees when it's idling nicely. Tried moving the distributor one tooth and that didn't help. Much like some other threads I found on here and other forums but there was never a solution. Tried driving it like that but NO power hardly will pull itself. Checked and triple checked the timing marks on the cam sprocket and they were exactly as every post I could find said. I don't want to tear the whole front off the motor again (I did that several times before I ended up rebuilding the motor) so I can't actually check the mark on the crank sproket but the ones on the cam line up perfectly when at top dead center on the crank pulley.
So knowing that shaving the head retards cam timing I modded a cam gear to give about 3 eyeball degrees advance. Now you are gonna think I am crazy but don't go dissing my shadetree engineering because it worked, sort of.
Here is what I did. Take the cam dowel out carefully using vise grips ( hey it wasn't running right anyway i wasn't going to hurt it any) Take one elcheepo cam sprocket and drill a hole at about 11 o'clock if the stock dowel hole is 12 then using a protractor rotate the cam gear counter clockwise by about 3 degrees. Next clamp the gear to the front of the cam so it doesn't move. that's the real hard part, getting it clamped while leaving room for the drill.
Stuff rags down the front and set up your most powerful shop vac to catch the shavings. Drill through the new 11 clock hole into the cam. There was no evidence of shavings on the rags or even on the cam gear the vacuum did a good job. Install the dowel in the new hole in the cam and put the distributor gear in the orignal hole and there you go. I probably puts the whole works out of balance but I don't think they are that precisely balance to begin with.
Here is a pick I managed with my phone.



Well it made it driveable sort of but still couldn't get the ignition 5 degree setting with the jumper in. And it was still pretty weak And putting it close made it even more weak. So I put it at about 15 degrees and it worked somewhat ok driving to work for the week. Mileage was about 14 compared to about 18/19 before the rebuild. This weekend I was really fed up and decided to heck with the marks I am going to advance the cam and see what happens. So I put the unmodded cam gear on and advanced it one tooth on the sprocket and it starts right up. Try to set the timing to the 5 degree mark and it doesn't like to idle. But smooth idle is at least at the extreme left of the gauge and it now has the power that it had before the rebuild. I only drove it on my county roads so no interstate yet but it revs fine and it wouldn't before.
Now if you are still reading. WHY OH WHY can't I get the timing set correctly? If the bright link in the chain was one tooth off at the crank side shouldn't I be able to correct it at the cam by putting it one tooth off?
I don't get it.
Thanks
Bernie

abecedarian

shaving the head reduced the distance between cam and crank centers. this means the cam timing is now off a few degrees. this makes the engine run poorly and since the cam isn't positioned properly the distributor can't be either.

you were on the right track offsetting the dowel in the gear.
best solution is an adjutable cam gear.
http://www.toyotacatalog.net/M1WebGe...6-041B176581DB

Berniep

So did I correct a misalignment in the chain by advancing one tooth and now need to advance the cam what 2 or 3 more degrees to make up for the shaving of 20 thou I don't remember shaving head on 20r motors making that big of a difference until you got past 40 thousandths. Of course we were building for higher rpm application than this pickup. I don't remember it changing the timing marks that much.

abecedarian

there is also a thin spacer between the cam gear and the distributor drive. did you remember to get that in there?

drew303

I'm trying to visualize how 20 thousandths off the head would effect things this bad. The teeth of the chain are going to line up on the cam sprocket and crank sprocket the same no matter what you deck off the head.

But the cam is going to turn, late (retarded some). So the valves are going to open up a bit later than they should, very little I'd imagine but probably enough be noticeable.

So yes you were right in advancing the the cam, but I don't think advancing it by a tooth was the right way. To me one tooth would way over adanvce the cam.

I think your best bet is to install everything to stock spec and use the adjustable cam sprocket to advance your cam, but start from a stock position and make small changes all the while leaving the ignition timing at stock (you really shouldnt need to change that at all).

dunno, those are my thoughts at least

Berniep

Yep, it's in there.
Thanks for the quick replies folks.
Gotta go to bed. I will check back tomorrow evening.

Pistonman

You need to degree the cam to have any idea where you are at.

Berniep

Ok I am going to either degree the cam. (an excellent excuse foebnew tools). Or tear the front cover off AGAIN or both. Can you degree the cam with the radiator in? I have never done it on an engine in the vehicle before.
Drove it to work today (20 miles county roads 20 miles interstate one way)
No power at around 50 mph but seems fine at 70. Couldn't pull hills in 4th gear that I used to pull fine in 5th.
Anyway I parked it for the rest of the week and borrowed transportation again.
Thanks for the replies. Any more suggestions are welcome.

Berniep

Ok got a degree wheel and dial indicator on order.
Can anyone help me with the specs on a stock cam.
It is a stock 89 4wd pickup. 22re