truckasaurus612

I would greatly appreciate any insights.

OK so I know this topic has been beaten to death repeatedly, and yes, I searched til my eyes were sore, and yes, i read and reread 4crawlers site.

85 4runner. the interior window switch has not worked since I owned the truck but since I rarely open the tailgate or the window, I was OK with using the key rolldown method. Today when I wanted to let the dog jump in the back, I was rolling the window down with the key and it just stopped halfway down. Now no motor noise, no relay clicking that I can assertain, no back door light on the dash and no license plate light. Checked all the fuses, look good.

Its gettin dark and cold (minnesota). I'll be able to take a better look tomorrow morning. Any knowledge/tips would be great. This is going to bug the crap out of me all night.

Jdizzydub

If the fuses are good..maybe check the window motors ground? Usually when i've had electrical problems when all else checked out..it was a bad ground?? Good Luck.

8422r4Runner

Push in on the tailgate upper left or right side when you turn the key. My 84 does that, there is a sensor in there that can tell if the gate is fully shut. If it's not happy the window will not work and the motor will of course make no sound.

1995HILUX

i just tore down and completely rebuilt a non-functioning rear window on an '86 4runner. god bless that removable top. the window kept falling into the tailgate, the key switch hadn't worked in years, and the driver's switch failed to actuate the lifter. this wild goose chase took me a full eleven hours to diagnose and repair, as the 1st generation 4runner had a removable top and features several interlock devices to interrupt the power window circuit at times when you wouldn't intentionally wish to operate the back window. in between your press of the "please close the window" button, the following circuitry lies between your finger and the laughing window motor.

1) removable top off/on switch.
2) drivers window lock switch
3) rear wiper retraction detect switch
4) window limit switch
5) tailgate open/closed switch
6) ignition switch
7) tailgate key window switch
8) thirteen (billion) much abused, extensively flexed, heavily taped, and somehow grimy wires, not including possibly faulty grounds
9) a fuse
10) four 12V/6A soldered on relays, a PCB with myriad traces, and many diodes and capacitors inside a $400 infernal gray box roughly the size of your wallet, which most people end up trading for a new box...but not you! you're intrepid!

11) the twilight zone. seriously.


grab yourself the schematic, a multimeter, a 12v source, a friend, some guinness, some intuition, and possibly some soldering gear. i ended up replacing two of four relays in said evil box, as well as unwrapping and repairing the wiring harness that runs out of the truck near the jack and up into the tailgate. these wires are VERY abused, and should be inspected closely whether or not the indicate continuity end to end. they may not as the harness moves with the gate. a spritz of Deoxit restored the long dead key switch, as well as the $$$ drivers window lock switch. Deoxit saves switches. I also had to clean up several corroded grounds, and desolder and re-solder a few relays on the $$$ window relay box. Don't pay $400 or more for the part, the relays (unbelievably) were replaceable with a few in stock at radio shack, they even matched the pinout and pin spacing on the toyota PCB, vital to a drop-in replacement. the stock relays are SPDT, N/C common, and are rated for 12VDC at 6A. The replacements i used are rated 9VDC at 12A, more than adequate. the radio shack parts are about a centimeter taller than the stock omron relays, as such i fashioned a cutout with a dremel in the lid of the box to accomodate them. the omron relays, of same dimension as the originals, are available from Digi-Key or Mouser Electronics. For the money ($3-5 each) i'd replace all 4.

let me take some time to give thanks and praise to my secret weapon, Deoxit. This miracle spray will restore any electrical connection from the scratchy potentiometer for your dash illumination, to the non-functioning key switch in the tailgate. any electrical contacts in the vehicle should be hit, and the part actuated about 50 times to ensure good signal path. Honestly, a spray into the lock chamber on the back gate restored a switch that hadn't functioned in years with a few simple turns left and right to work it into the contacts.

to summarize:
easy stuff first... check the fuse. check continuity in the drivers switch per spec. check the drivers window lock switch per spec. those ok? proceed...
open the gate panel and driver's side panelling, put 12VDC to the motor briefly to test it. check continuity between control harness and gate harness wiring. check continuity between control harness and drivers switch. make sure control box is getting 12VDC. look at the schematic, check continuity everywhere. inspect all wiring, especially the wires that get pushed down by the window glass as it descends. check the limit switch, check the door lock switch, check the tailgate closed switch. check the removable top switch that gets pushed when the top is on. check the wiper arm retraction detection switch. check for continuity between its wiring and the control box harness. the white three wire harness leading to the tailgate open switch is suspect. mine was bad. if your motor, switches, and wiring passes muster, open the gray control box, slide out the board, and inspect the traces for burning, and replace the relays. even if there is continuity between the N/C pins, the relay might be stuck shut. As you disconnect a harness, hit it with deoxit. inspect the pins for misalignment, grease, or detatchment. take your time, double check, pause to think, say "eureka!" when epiphany srikes, and above all...pay attention.

Remember, the window circuit only works if the (working) control box believes that:

1) the button is pushed, and the lock button is not on
2) the top is on fully
3) the gate is up and closed fully
4) the ignition is on (excepting the external key switch)
5) the wiper is in retract position

if you've made sure of these things, and still no love, then prepare to diagnose. it can be a lengthy hunt and fix, though your hard work will likely sustain its intended function for an additional 200k miles.

cheers.

ryan

1995HILUX

image courtesy of 4crawler

Mostly Lurkin'

I had the same problem, inside switch didn't work but key switch worked fine. I found a broken wire where it runs ( exposed ) from the tailgate to behind the left taillight.

Good luck,
Scott

truckasaurus612

1995hilux, thanks for all the great info. I gotta check out this magical Deoxit!! For a temp fix i ended up crawling in the cargo area with my motorcycle battery, some wire, and alligtor clips and powered the window up. I didn't see any bare wires or visibly bad grounds so I'm going to assume that the relay is toast. Instead of rebuilding the relay, i was thinking of running power direct to the window motor and plugging in a switch up in the cab so I don't have to bother with the keys at all. There has be something about this idea that is stupid...I just cant think of what it might be besides frying a $3 switch once and a while. By the way, I scored this runner for $500 so keeping it pristine is not a concern.
Thanks again to everybody who jumped in to help me out with this.

Lysmachia

Oh that dreaded rear window... you can do what I do... LOL

GHETTO!



We finally figured out the motor is bad (that 4crawler chematic is one busy little diagram) - but I am not replacing it at this point because I am doing the chop in the next two months so why bother.... I will be so glad to be rid of that rear window weight!

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

12voltguy has a new kit on PBB that bypasses all the OEM stuff for the rear window.

Not on his website yet I dont think.

truckasaurus612

wabbit, i'd like to hear more about this mystery kit. I could piece it together at radio smack but everytime i try to "re-wire" something, I cause a city wide blackout. No easy feat when you're working on a closed 12V

waskillywabbit

iTrader: (-1)

www.pirate4x4.com on the Toyota 4runner forum posted by Seabass at the top as it just started yesterday

All the info is there.

Fahrenheit 451

Ditto. The door closed detection switch can be a PITA. I tried adjusting my tailgate by loosening and beating on the latch, but that never seemed to get it done. Then again, I never really whapped it hard; figured I might really mess something up if I got overexcited with a hammer
On mine, I found that the internals on the latch assembly seemed worn down enough that the post on the detection switch couldn't get pushed up high enough to work. So, I farmered mine a tad by drilling the post and inserting a tiny screw in the end that I could adjust to make up the difference.
If I were to do it again, I think I would first try getting a little more western with adjusting the latch on the tailgate to see if that got it where things needed to be.
Just an opinion.
Forgot to add.....the switch is on the driver side so try pushing on the top left side of the tailgate while turning the key. If it works, that is your problem.

bktaco

hard to believe there might be anything else to add to all of that. but

i chased my failed rear window control to a harness clip inside the tailgate. unfortunately, it is positioned behind the glass, so if your window is already down, then it is a true biach to get to. it is the wire set that connects to the key cylinder in the tailgate. mine was fully disconnected - i ended up having to shimmy the window out (after pulling the cover) re-connect the wire clip (this is a goof time to also loosely zip tie the two halves together since they will just work apart again), and then all was good for me. until

moments after buttoning it all up, it refused to work again. this time, i chased it out to the sensor that indicates whether the tailgate is closed. for me, the thin rubber/plastic piece that covers the body sheet metal edge (and holds the interior plastic to the body) was not properly fastened, and was therefore not allowing the tailgate to close properly (like above poster that has to push the upper left side of tailgate to operate the key switch). after i pushed it on right, it worked again flawlessly. good hunting!

1995HILUX

i thought, early in the project, that i would simply bypass the stock system if i felt that it would be impossible to diagnose. I had offered my dear friend and Snap-On tool owner "bender" to have his tail window operable by the end of the day for a flat fee of $135. I had no idea how notorious this window problem is, which is nice, because it didn't make me apprehensive to begin.

I just started troubleshooting it based on the schematics (from the all-knowing 4crawler, and the toyota electronic schematic book on hand) as well as applying my limited, yet functioning knowledge of 12VDC electrical systems. IMO, Toyota should have opted to make the relays replaceable like any other relay in a vehicle. When I began, I looked in the relay box under the hood. Yeah...thats when the journey began.

I'm so stoked it came out perfectly. I ended up getting $235 for the job, due to its difficulty. I mean there were literally 4 or 5 places where the window circuit had been breached.

But...once you fix it, it works like it should, and the Radio Shack DPDT rocker switch on the dash doesn't reek of "joe-job" imperfection.

Use the stock wiring, and diagnose the problem, and repair it.

It will work again and love you long time.

1995HILUX

BKTACO

the glass slides in and out when the motor has been detached. or you could energize the motor leads briefly to raise or lower the window. I, too, noticed that wire bundle was suspect. the wire clip had popped out, and it gets hit when the window comes down. two wires had been severed completely. definitely a must-check. i honestly recommend unwrapping all wires outside the body, from where they leave the bulkhead to where they terminate.

also...three way common ground inside the tailgate....wire brush, and deoxit.

bktaco

yeah, i had the motor dismounted. but i was still only able to shimmy the glass out part ways... i think because the glass holder tray was a gnarly mess of rust and one of the arms was not slotting right too. this ordeal has provided me with another good reason to get a can-back topper - given the cost of said topper, i need all the reasons i can muster

michalik_piotr

omg! my head is spinning from reading all of this! ya, u guessed it, mine will not roll down either. 95helix i would gladly pay u $200 to fix it! too bad i'm in seattle.

now my BIG question is... is there a ghetto way of just wireing in some aftermarket $2 switch and running a wire to the battery? why would this not work? or would it? if so, whats the best way of doing that? i don't care about it looking clean or stock, my runner is allready ghetto.

thanks

bktaco

wiring diagrams...

https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f116/stupid-rear-window-113357/

i dont see why you couldnt power straight to the motor, without all the checks. probably a one wire job. even use same switch.

michalik_piotr

hardwireing with maybe a fuse in line and by passing all the bs seems the way to go! any other input on this? reasons against it?

mrstang01

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