TinMan

I put a new O2 sensor in, it took care of most of the soot that was coming out of the exhaust and over rich exhaust. And I am getting really good mpg's.

But I am getting some pretty good detonation at just off idle and into first gear, and at 5th gear steady down the road, let off the peddle a little, and when I get back on it will ping a little. Timing is set at 5 before. Do I need to start retarding, or advancing a little.

All vac lines seems to be good, spraying carb cleaning around everything up on the top of the engine does make any dif.

I just found out that it is not a stock cam, dont know which one though.

I do know that my TPS does not test out to the FSM, Most test are good, but the just off idle test does not give cont. I will replace it on the 15th.

I will pull the plugs in the am and see if they look lean.

ECU is not giving any codes.

Thanks

jsn_stockard

I would start retarding

myyota

If the engine was running rich because of a bad 02 sensor then your engine probably has alot of carbon build up in it, try running a can of sea foam through it to clean out the engine and see if that helps. Another thing to consider is that if you start retarding the timming your going to loose power, try using a higher grade of gas and see if the pinging goes away, if not then start playing with the timming.

TinMan

I took a real close look at the vac lines today and found two in front of the throttle body that had pin holes, so I went and replaced them all set the timing back to 5 btdc. I also filled up with 89 and it seems to be doing real well.

I'm having another problem that I just cant figure out. I think I have narrowed it down to the timing chain tensioner but I will see what you all think.

Last week just for kicks I thought I would adjust the valves. Have not done it yet and I have put about 4000 miles on it so thought it cant hurt. I opened the top, rotated around to 1 TDC and checked the 1,2 intake with a .008 feeler guage would not even come close to fitting, checked 1,3 exhaust and the same no way a .012 would fit. So I adjusted them out to the FSM .008/.012, same for the next rotation.

while in there I noted that the PO had put steel guides in and they looked to be in good shape. but the chain seemed to be really slack on the drivers side.

Buttoned it up and started it. It started nice and idled nice, until it warmed to operating temp. once at op temp it sounded like the valves were about to come out of the valve cover.

I called Tod at engine builder and he gave the recomendation that it could be an after market cam and the ones he sells are set at .007/.009. I set it to that they did well until operating temp and then still sounded bad but not as bad. So I went back in and set them to .006/.008.

Now the valve train will sound normal at cold idle, then at op temp it will give a pretty good rattle for about 5 min or you drive for a few miles and then go back to normal sounding good running engine. Occasionally during normal operating it will do the same like as I pull up to a light and it idles. Then I take off and it is fine.

I checked the cam visually against another old cam I have here and the lobes look the same no obvious flat spots, the lifters feel good with no side to side wobble.

Could this rattle just be from the adjuster screws being moved around now they are not in contact with the same wear spots anymore.

When it is really going nuts rattling it is more from the front of the head.

I watched each valve go up and down while I turned the engine over by hand none are giving any obvious wobble like it is bent.

any thoughts

TinMan

Yep burning it, 3 is the only one left burning, when I got it all four would foul the plugs with oil every month. The seafoam either got the rings to seat on 1,2,4 or got them unstuck. 3 is still burning it pretty good. I just put mystery oil in the gas we'll see what happens. Sad thing is this little engine is strong and gets good mpg. I believe someone rebuilt it, and then either did not seat the rings right, or let it sit for a long time.

The only way I would be able to tell the cam profile would be to take it out and take to a machine shop.

Weird thing about the valve noice is when it does it. so intermitant. The timing chain is a "Max Top" brand. Steel rails, and the cover looks good on the inside. Its like sometimes the tensioner is not getting oil pressure.

I think I am just going to stop messing with it, and get serious about rebuilding the one I have on the stand and drop it in the 4runner. Then rebuild this one for the 87 pu.

TinMan

It's weird though, it will be sitting there running fine, then bamb sounds like the valve are going to come out of the valve cover, then a few min later it will go away, then start pulling away from a stop and bamb, valve rattle, next time nothing running perfect. The chain is older, no bright links left on it. but the chain, teeth, guides, cover look good. Both of the chain guides are steel.

If I could get 3 to seal I would just redo the head, cam and t-chain.
Thanks for the help thought.

myyota

in the cylinder that giving you problems, try this, run the engine until its up to normal operating temperature, remove the spark plug and pour about a half ounce of sea foam into that cylinder, put the spark plug back in and let it sit for about an hour and then start it up and let the smoke clear and take it for a drive and see if that helps unstick the rings. you might need to do it more than once but it should help.

TinMan

Good idea, I'll give it a try, as soon as this mystery oil is done burning through the gas.

The detonation is still there, not much going on tonight so I decided to take a closer look at it. It is holding 5 btdc well. I thought well maybe a plug is bad so I replaced the plugs, no difference.

Then I thought well maybe the PO leaned out the afm to comp for the bad O2 sensor, so I turned it a tooth to richen it up, no dif. turned it another tooth it seemed to be a little better, but not much.

Then I sat and thought about what all I have done to it in the last few weeks. because it was not making valve noices, and not pinging before all this. Then I remembered I replaced the belts. So went and checked and the alt belt was as tight as a bango string. So I loosened it some, and started it. No start up valve ticking sounds. I did not take it down the road after that I will see how it is doin in the morning.

Thanks for the advice.

TinMan

I got what I thought was a deal on some E-3 plugs. Thought well I'll give them a try maybe it will help some. What pieces of crap they are. Going back tomorrow. At first they gave great performance, I put them in last night took it for test drive, all was well. took off to work this a.m. about 1/2 way there it started missing like crazy. I barely got to work. Called the E-3 people and they sounded like they get this a lot, and explained away why they might be fouled. Got it home tonight and put the NGK's back in and it seems to be back to what it was before. Except it acts like the cylinders are really loaded up, they probably are, it was missing on all 4 bad.

The valve tap sound got really bad tonight and I was able to hear it under the hood this time I could tell a lot of it was coming from the alternator. I had another one here so I took the old one out and put this used one in. When I got the old one out I could spin the pully hear and feel the bearing grinding and knocking. Started it back up and it sounds real good again. I guess when I over tightened the belt that was the last straw for that Alt.

I will drive it tomorrow, and if that takes the valve knock sound away I will take the valve lash back to .008/.012 and see how it does and go down from there.

No matter how I timed it, from 0 to 12 BTDC it has that off idle knock and the valves floating at cruise, and I could see the plugs were running really lean, so I cracked into the AFM and set it back two teeth. That gave it some more fuel and seems to have helped with the detonation. Right now I have the timing set at 3BTDC, if the extra fuel is helping with the pinging, I will take it back to 5BTDC.

Thanks for all the help.

wannagetrdone

Well Ive been into several of my 22r recently cause of the timing chain. It seems within about 500k they start rattling and come to think of it I dont hear alot of em runnin that doesnt do it. However I bough a low mileage pull out the chain is tight all the time and it doesnt do it at all. I have problems with it getting hot but she never rattles. nwor is the best place for replacement parts i ve found . they are a little costly but worth it

TinMan

Well I am about out of options for this pinging. And tonight I lifted the hood after a test drive and the exhaust manifold was turning red. Not cherry red like I have seen some headers get, but it was definately turning red.

It all seems to have started after I put the Bosch O2 sensor in.

I have taken the timing every degree from 0-14 btdc. It does not change when the detonation happens. Right now I have it set at stock 5 btdc.

Detonation seems to only happen after it is at normal op temp.

I have taken the afm rich four teeth and it has not changed when the detonation happens. It is running richer out the exhaust.

Replaced all the vacume lines. And ensured they are properly ran.

Tested and cleaned the EGR system, I did find that the EGR was stuck shut, cleaned it and put it back together tonight, it did not change the lean running problem. It does idle better now.

Tested the TPS, it is in specs, and adjusted right.

All the vacume accessories seem to be fine also.

running shell 89 octane. Did not want to change to a different brand until this is figured out.

Air filter is good.

inspected the duct work from the AFM to the throttle body seems to be good, no obvious leaks and is tight.

Sprayed carb cleaner around all the components and intake, does not make a dif at idle.

Could the Bosch O2 sensor be making it run lean?

It is not throwing any CEL's.

CEL gives the I am good and working flash, 1 flash in every 4 seconds.

I dont really care that this engine is running lean. I just dropped off the other block, crank, head, and pistons at the machine shop today. Hope to have it all back and ready to start building by the end of Jan. But I dont want to build the new one and still have this problem, and cause damage to the fresh rebuild.

Thoughts.

TinMan

I am burning quite a bit of oil, could this be causing the lean condition.

also have the valves set a little tight, because that seemed to quite them down some. engbldr recommened I try .007/.009 I have them set at .006/.008.

I guess tomorrow I'll unhook the the O2 sensor drive and see how it does. If that does not help I'll unhook the EGR vacume drive and see what happens.

myyota

Bosch 02 sensors do not work well in our engines, and very well could be causing your problem. Stay with an OEM 02 sensor. www.densoproducts.com sells 02 sensors and they have good prices, i bought an 02 sensor for my 86 4Runner from them a few months ago and havn`t had any problems at all.

TinMan

I took the Bosch O2 sensor out and put the origional one back in. That has seemed to help a great deal. I am still getting a slighty bit of floating detonation at 5th gear cruising. But the lower end ping is gone. I put the AFM back to stock for this test. I will richen it up a little next time I drive it and see if it helps.

AZ did not give a problem returning the Bosch O2, and matched Advances price. $34.00 for a denso O2, but it will not be in until the 29th.

Later
Merry Christmas

saskyrunner88

Did you install the denso o2 yet?

TinMan

No I just picked it up. Have had a house full of family. And running all over Gods creation visiting. It has been a good Christmas and New Year, but I think I need a vacation now.

I did put 350 miles on it the other night, it did good. No detonation unless I happened to bog it down on take off. Like not enough gas when I let off the clutch, then it would ping just a little in 1st and 2nd. But nothing at the top end.

TinMan

Put the Denso O2 sensor in today, all seems to be well now.

Later

saskyrunner88

Good to know! I'm going to have to do the same thanks alot