jimbyjimb

iTrader: (1)

Can't say about the return. I leave things as stock as possible unless there's a problem.

Any name brand reg ought to do it. Weber has one:http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/product_p/12-804.htm

Holley:
http://www.rakuten.com/prod/holley-1...FYeUfgodCQUAyQ

Just make sure it can go as low as 2lbs and as high as 4lbs so you can hit the sweet spot.

sandman666

I think our trucks were the same color at one time!!!

jimbyjimb

iTrader: (1)

Right on!

Mine's a clean find I won't be beating on, just making it usable and slowly doing a practical resto. Thought about painting it like a Japanese Zero but the stock hockey-puck stripe is cool too.

BTW, that Holley I sent in the link is a 4.5-9psi unit. They make and/or made one that looked the same but went from 2.5-4psi.

sandman666

jimbyjimb

iTrader: (1)

http://shop.mr-gasket.com/air-and-fu...regulator.html

Never used it, but the price is right.

jimbyjimb

iTrader: (1)

Question for you since you're a wheeler,

My truck is all stock body-wise. I want to bolt some front recovery points onto it. I can drill holes in the frame if needed. Any suggestions? Running the stock front bumper.

I'm not a wheeler but looking to get set up for emergencies in case I need to pull anyone from a ditch.

sandman666

not really sure with the stock bumper, maybe you could build them so they stick thru the existing holes in the bumper? That's why I got rid of the stock bumpers, I wanted some that served more of a purpose than just a license plate holder

jimbyjimb

iTrader: (1)

Thanks. I should search the forums and see if anybody's come up with anything.

Glad you found your problem and good luck on the tuning. Once you get it down it's cake.

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

I use a Holley FPR with a Mr Gasket gauge - part numbers in my desmog thread, I believe.

DO NOT block the return on the pump - you'll end up wearing out the fuel pump. Whoever told you that has no clue what they are doing. Think about it, where would the extra fuel pressure and volume go if there wasn't a return??

jimbyjimb

iTrader: (1)

We're all adults here and this goes unsaid, but I want to emphasize I am NOT trying to pick on you specifically, but I'll delve into detail on this:

In this specific circumstance, you're right. Don't mess with it. However, most mechanical systems do not use returns. Returns are to prevent vapor lock, not to relieve system pressure as mechanical pumps rarely exceed 14 psi. The carb needle and seat move so frequently there is no significant buildup during normal operation to hurt anything in the system. Unless a specific problem develops or there is a special circumstance, return lines aren't generally necessary for a mechanical pump.

What we have with this 22R is a very specific set of circumstances. Weber carbs have a very weak needle and seat, they can't generally 'hold' against more than 3.5-4psi and fuel will force it's way past the needle and overfill the bowl causing a rich condition. How this would work out on a stock carb, I do not know. They may have a better seal.

If you were running a Holley you could probably block the return without ill effect. In fact, it's commonplace to plug return lines on old Chevy's for example. Most mechanical return systems I've ever been aware of generally end up getting plugged at some point. The 22R happens to be a specific circumstance, in particular with a Weber carb, that perhaps whoever told you this was unaware of.

Whoever told you to plug it actually did know something, or heard a bit of old knowledge from someone who did. They just happened to be wrong this time. That's just part of the troubleshooting process. There are circumstances where plugging the return on a 22R could be a valid test, and it would not likely damage anything. The motor would just run like garbage.

jimbyjimb

iTrader: (1)

Sandman, do you one better. I am not running a FPR. I'm picking one up tomorrow from NAPA, I'll try it out and report back to you results. Not sure if it's necessary with a return system. My truck runs fine w/o it on a stock mech fuel pump, but I figure why not try it. They apparently get quite the endorsement from the local community so what the heck.

If you ever get to jetting your Weber, let me know. I have a useless (to me) 32/36 in my garage with a jet kit. Obviously, I don't need the jets and a 32/36 on a stock 22R could probably be jetted richer. Stock jetting hardly ran my 20R.

jimbyjimb

iTrader: (1)

Well, I noticed nothing with the Holley 1-4 fpr vs factory mech. Pump with spacer.

Also ran on my 2.5psi electric pump, ran the same.

Obviously a lot of people on here run fpr's. What I can tell you is that my cam/carb demand a lot more fuel over stock, so even if the mech. Pump can over power my needle/seat the extra fuel isn't bothering my 22R. Just up jetted this morning to 160 mains. I also don't off road and encounter steep angles like many who run fpr's on mech. Pumps do.

I would suggest running w/o the fpr (unless you bought one already) and see how it goes. If you have a rich condition at certain angles or in general, run the fpr. Rule of thumb: if there's no problem, don't fix it. Keep us updated and if you have running problems, especially at idle, it could well be too much pump pressure as stated by others before me.

Sorry for grammar, on my cell.

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

I took enough college physics classes to know that volume is not directly proportional to pressure. The relationship between changing the fuel pressure and the amount of fuel delivered is the square root of the ratio of the fuel pressure. So essentially, to double the fuel volume you would need to 4 times the fuel pressure. Increasing the fuel pressure to achieve a desired fuel volume is never a solution to any carbureted engine setup. With a surplus of fuel pressure you run the risk of blowing the needle off the seat. Fuel will come out the air vents, flow through the carb and wash the cylinders - big old flooded mess. Fuel pressure should be just high enough to keep the bowl filled to the proper level throughout the RPM range.

The proper way of increasing or decreasing fuel volume would be to re-jet the carb, not increase the pressure. Even the biggest, fuel thirsty performance carbureted V-8 engines seldom ever go over 7-8 PSI. So "if there's no problem, don't fix it" might get you down the road for now, but you're asking for trouble eventually.

jimbyjimb

iTrader: (1)

I don't read anyone saying the contrary...

If an engine has more fuel demand the needle/seat will move more frequently as the demand forfuel from the bowl increases. Since that is the case, and the pressure quotient comes into play by overpowering the needle/seat causing an over-filled bowl the increased demand could lead to less observable pressure related issues.

Most problems I have found with Webers being overpowered result in a rich condition in particular at idle, not overflowing the vents though that is most certainly possible and in some cases likely.

Other than here-say about what might happen, I have no data confirming a factory Toyota pump can in fact overpower a Weber. Not saying it's untrue or impossible. I'm merely stating my experience in this situation.

Though the return system is in place to allow fuel flow to combat vapor lock, it will probably divert pressure. Does it divert enough pressure to not run an fpr? Don't know. All I know is I have no problems and have no data from anywhere other than supposition that damage 'could' result. I don't even know what the pressure coming off the mech pump is; never checked as I have had no reason. If you're saying you actually wore out a Weber needle/seat by not using an fpr on a stock Toyota mech fuel pump I'd be interested in hearing about it.

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

I'm just saying that there is a way of doing everything and then there is the right way. I have een what happens when a 454 big block blows a needle at 6,800 RPM. An engine that floods spinning that fast isn't fun to watch - blew the valves, cracked a head and threw two rods. Completely trashed a $12,000 engine because his pit mechanic decided to up the fuel pressure instead of replacing some $45 jets to shave some time off his 1/4 mile.

Plus there's a reason why Weber recommends around 3 PSI. I'm assuming that they know what they're doing since they build them.

jimbyjimb

iTrader: (1)

There are many, many things to consider. I'll elaborate in detail in a week and a half when I am home from vacation and have a computer keyboard and better internet connection making longform explanations simpler.

Suffice it to say I agree with you and I apologize for using shorthand but longform is tough with the lag and small iphone keypad. I have obviously failed to adequately explain myself and will do so at the above prescribed time. Until then, take care everyone!

jimbyjimb

iTrader: (1)

Long form explanation for those who don't know or are interested:

Weber recommends a 3.5 psi max from a fuel pump because any more pressure will push fuel through the needle and seat causing a rich condition and/or fuel to flow out of the vents. If you have a fuel pump that does not put out more than that amount of pressure, you do not NEED a regulator. You may, however, USE one anyway. That's 40 bucks you don't need to spend, but do what you need to do.

Concerning the mechanical Toyota pump. I personally have never taken a pressure reading from a 22R mechanical pump. I run a stock bore 22R with a 38/38, modified 20R head, .440 lift, 218 duration camshaft and have experienced approximately ZERO problems running a stock mechanical pump sans regulator, hooked up properly with a functional return line. If I run in to problems believe me, I'll post it.

A return line is generally used in older, carbureted automobiles to prevent vapor lock and thus, depending on year and brand may likely have the return plugged. If you are using a Weber on a 22R with a mechanical pump it's a good idea to use the return. Though it's intended purpose is not for the diversion of pressure it stands to reason it will. If a Toyota mechanical pump puts out more than 3.5psi it is likely enough of the pressure will be diverted to the return (easier path to travel) that not running an FPR might not be a problem or wreck your carb.

I have personally not read about, seen or heard of any scientific, 100% proof that a Weber will be ruined by running a stock mechanical pump, properly hooked up, properly functioning. Running an FPR will not hurt anything, but it may be unneccessary. If anyone has unequivocal proof or personal experience with a Weber needle and seat or 22R with a running issue because the stock mechanical pump while being installed correctly overpressurized a stock Weber, please correct me.

I do not off road, I do not have my truck at strange angles for exteneded bits of time. There are circumstances where, even if a truck ran fine without an FPR on the road, you might find an issue without one. I am not an offroading expert. I am a professionally trained mechanic who has worked on my makes and models over the years and has grown accustomed to solving problems as they crop up, not before. So far all I have read about is people running FPR's as a preventative measure and have found no scientific data to proove that running a stock mechanical pump will hurt a Weber or cause a drivability issue. If you choose to run one as a preventative measure, God bless you. If you have evidence that a Weber can suffer or drivability can suffer using a stock mechanical pump without an FPR my ears and eyes are wide open.