Pick-rolla-Pick

I bought an '82 Hilux SR5 (2WD) a little over a yr and a half ago. I had the carb rebuilt shortly after getting it. It runs pretty good for the most part but ever since getting it I've had intermittent stumbling. Now and then the idle will drop 2-3 hundred RPM out of the blue when stopped in traffic or at an intersection. Sometimes it won't idle at speed unless I hold down the gas when starting it up after it's fully up to temp.

The shop that did the carb rebuild could not replicate the problem, nor could a nearby shop that knows 22Rs pretty well. I've also had the horn fixed at one shop and they noticed no such problem. I'm told once in a while things like this can be caused by an aging coil or igniter, but that they're very hard to diagnose. One local auto electric shop says they use a heat lamp to produce a road-like stress environment to test coils, but it costs $100 just for the test.

The guy that does the heat lamp test says what I can do for now is take the coil off the igniter saddle, clean them both up good, and put some dielectric grease between the two. Meanwhile I've checked for a factory (Denso) coil and igniter at parts stores, but no one has them. The dealership wants $131 for the Denso coil and over $500 for the igniter! I've seen some coil/igniter sets on eBay that look tempting in the $85 to $150 range. The $150 set is off an '83 and looks practically new, but he only gives the igniter part # and it doesn't quite match mine.

My coil/igniter part #s are...

Coil - 19070-35021
Igniter - 89620-35111

The nice looking '83 set igniter # is 89620-35110, same as the dealership said for an igniter for an '82 Hilux. Here's the thing though, the Toy parts guy at the dealership said it depends what time of year the truck was made in a given year as to what part numbers are used. I've read testing instructions on the coil that say they have the same spec from '82-'88 though. I don't know about the igniter as far as range of model year for fit though.

Is there a range of coil and/or igniter part numbers that can work for Hilux trucks within a given model year span? I've read cman1's thread about similar probs with his 82 truck, but mine has all stock parts including the plunger vs electric choke. I also had the carb rebuilt as mentioned, and if there were anything wrong with the fuel shutoff valve, I would think the carb or general repair shop would have noticed it, and it probably would be more of a constant vs intermittent problem.

Am I on the right track with checking the coil? I can do a standard resistance check on my own, but most say without a heat load it doesn't really tell you much. I have a heat lamp in my bath ceiling, but it would be a bit hard to rig up a make shift heat box, and I wouldn't know what temp to even test it at. I'm assuming around 200F. There's probably other important details like duration of test too, and I don't know if I could sustain a constant rigorous yet safe temp. Any suggestions? I yield to the Yota masters on this one. For now I bought some dielectric grease and plan to do as the guy suggested with it. I'm hoping it will serve double duty to quiet what I think is my horn contact screw scraping on the steering wheel's brass ring.

Oh, and btw, hi, I'm new here, nice place ya got.

kawazx636

iTrader: (3)

Before you go yanking the ignition coil do some other quick, easy and cheap tests/fixes.

1-Fuel filters. I too have an 83 and I had similar stalling problems, but it usually happened at highway speeds while under load for about 15-20 minutes. I had rust scale in my fuel tank from a combination of bad gas and a rusty tank (thanks ethanol!). I swaped out the fuel filters and it was fixed quickly. I also ditched the fuel filter at the tank and moved it under the hood for easy access. So now I have one going from my fuel line to the fuel pump and another "double protection" filter going from my fuel pump to the fuel pressure regulator. Both of my fuel filters are the see through fancy looking units from PepBoys that have replaceable filter elements and I keep a couple extra filters in my truck at all times.

2-I'm assuming that this is a factory carb. If not and you have a Weber then you need a fuel pressure regulator. Webers only need 2.5-4.0 PSI.

3-If you don't have emissions in your area then I would highly recommend a weber carb. My factory carb was awful at idle.

4-Check for vacuum leaks. Spray carb cleaner around all vacuum hoses and gaskets. If the motor stumbles or dies then you probably have a vacuum leak.

5-Check all of your ground connections. I had a bad ground connection to my starter a while back and it would intermittingly not start. The bad ground wasn't even that bad either.

6-Check your timing and vacuum advance. The timing may be retarded enough to not let it idle, but good enough to fire under load. It should be about 0* at idle without vacuum advance and about 8* at idle with vacuum advance at 750-900 rpms.

7-Quit taking your truck to the shop. They are simple enough for anybody to wrench on them. Get yourself a FSM and enjoy some light reading. I use the 85 FSM which covers all of the 83' mechanics. Scope it out here:

http://www.ncttora.com/fsm/1985/1985FSM.pdf

Good luck to you and I hope everything work out well.

hemsingd

I don't know if the '82 Hilux has the emissions computer like my '83, but I banged my head against the exact same problem. I rebuilt the carburetor and did the propane vacuum leak check too. Nothing. The problem ended up being the idle circuit solenoid valve control voltage from the emissions computer on the driver's side kick panel. One day it started stumbling at idle and I kicked the floor. The rest is pretty self explanatory. I found a cold and broken solder joint on the computer PCB. That did it for mine.

83

I had a weird issue like that...so far my issues were 1. the fuel cut (or idle cut) solenoid-usually its symptoms are the truck stalling unless you keep your foot on the gas. this will be an intermittent problem- and 2. something else I never figured out. It would start losing power at highway speeds until I was flooring it and only going 35mph. Then it would completely go away...

I tried tons of different things. Cleaning, new carb, fuel filters. It finally stopped happening when I replaced all the rubber fuel lines (a pretty easy job), but honestly I have no idea if that really did it or not. It was so intermittent, I can't really even be sure it's fixed, yet, even though it hasn't happened in probably a year.

Bingle

83, i had somone post on one of my "problem threads" that his old rubber fuel lines were colapsing under heavy load. the inner portion of the hose had de-lammed and was getting sucked closed or enough to starve things out. Sounds like that coulda been your problem, or at least part.

Pick, check the easy/cheap stuff first. If it is the coil/igniter, I'd be inclined to go to a MSD ignition setup. Sounds like the MSD might be cheaper (for new at least).

83

Could very well have been it.

I had to replace my ignitor a couple years ago. Couldn't beleive how much it cost me...ouch.

Pick-rolla-Pick

1. It's an '82 as I said right off.
2. I also have the nice clear, replaceable filter element type fuel filter. It looks pretty clean and I never get any hesitation.
3. It is a factory carb, and after what I spent getting it rebuilt, I won't be spending big bucks on a Weber.
4. I've considered a points to electronic ignition conversion, IF I can bypass using the igniter since it's so damned expensive, but as far as I know, you still have to use one.
5. Timing, vacuum, hoses, etc have all been checked at one of the most reputable shops in the area, and they know 22Rs very well. They also didn't charge for the inspection.
6. As far as I know those emissions control units are only put on Cali Toyotas. However, I'm not totally sure what the state of origin was for this truck. Do you know the part number on it so I can look under my kick panel and check?

Bingle

On #4
Not to split hairs, but you already have electronic ignition, no points in your dizzy, right? The other part, you are correct, at least as far as I know, I forgot I still had the stock igniter with my msd setup. You might be able to bypass it, but I don't know how and wiring/electrical gremlins are my achellies heel with these trucks.
I would do the clean and grease, test the coil, and check that things look okay in the kick pannel.
I know you said a shop checked it out, but are you sure your fuel pump is putting out enough pressure? Just a thought.

Pick-rolla-Pick

Well it has cap and rotor, and as far as I know, some EI kits replace those, so it's not totally electronic.

I have a meter and am going to check coil resistance, but you don't really get enough info to go on when checking them cold. It takes a heat lamp or heat box to do it right with a test of 120 degrees or more.

If I were to check for an emissions computer under the kick panel, I wouldn't even know what to look for. In my searching on the net so far I can't find anything showing an emissions computer for a Hilux of ANY year, let alone '82. Most shops show emissions check valves and oxygen sensors, but no emissions computer. If an emissions computer were commonly used on these trucks, you'd think SOMEONE would have them other than the dealer, and you'd think it would at least be possible to find one searching the net.

The shop I go to is constantly busy with customers that bring in Porsches, Beemers, Landrovers, etc, yet they take the time to do thorough free inspections for the average Joe like me. They are in the Chinatown part of the city and know these vehicles well. What they don't put a wrench to they can often tell by looking, listening and driving. What they can't replicate they are reluctant to speculate on or do any wrenching, because they want themselves and the customer to be assured any money spent will fix a problem. That's part of how they've earned their high reputation in the area and why even wealthy people trust them. They can easily pay more than this shop's low labor rate, but they choose to go there.

The mechanical fuel pumps on these rarely fail, and when they do there are symptoms that are always readily detectable vs vague and intermittent. The reason they (and others) narrowed it down to possible coil/igniter problems is those items occasionally fail on these older trucks, and they're items that can malfunction intermittently and are often hard to diagnose. Furthermore they are temp sensitive, and this happens only when stopped while engine is running or in starting up, and both scenarios involve temps above or below normal engine bay temps.

Today I'm going to clean and di grease the horn ring and contact screw, coil and igniter mating surfaces, and wire brush the battery cables and posts. I'm not sure what to clean the coil/igniter with though. I don't want to leave any chem residue on those surfaces. I have Gunk, odorless kerosene, WD 40, or I could just use a a mild solution of Dawn or some Dr Bronner's castile soap. I'll probably just go at it with a rag and Scotch-Brite and call it good enough though.

(EDITED)
Finally found one. Strange looking part. Almost looks like a small hatch or something. I'll check that panel today to see if there's anything in there like that. God only knows where you buy these new though, if even possible.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-Picku...ht_2450wt_1271

This is from an '87 Pickup. Many parts in the '82-'88 range will fit from what I've read. I contacted one of the coil/igniter sellers on eBay btw, asking about part numbers. I asked because the dealership gave me part numbers that matched my coil, but one digit off on the igniter. He said he's sold hundreds for 8 years and the part numbers don't have to match exactly. It has more to do with a model year range and more specifically, the color coding of the plugs on the wires. I think he meant different color plugs are shaped different, to make it "foolproof", though I'm not sure on that. Mine are all green and most of the ones I've seen are too. I noticed the part info on the emissions computer shown above is also printed on a green label. Wonder if that color has to match too.

83

I'll be interested to see if the ignitor fits. I had issues with mine...in my very limited experience, they are year specific. I bought the one that was right for my 83, but it turned out a previous owner of my truck had pulled one from an 86 in a junkyard and cut & spliced connectors to make it fit. So rather than finding the right connectors for an 83, I just brought the one I had bought back, and bought an 86 ignitor. Might be that when the body style changed, the wire connectors changed. But wire connectors also changed when on this body style when they went from round to square headlights. So you just never know. Some things stay the same for a while, others seem to change within a single year...

You're basically right, the pumps rarely fail. Although be careful, unless you have years of experience on these toyotas, just repeating what somebody told you as though it's fact. There are people on this site (not me) who have more experience than a whole shop full of your typical Toyota mechanics. And with the collective experience of everyone here, you're going to find out all kinds of stuff your local shop may not know. All sorts of things happen. My stock pump was leaking oil, which means the diaphram had a hole, so I replaced it. A month later, out in the middle of nowhere in southern Utah, the new pump sheared off a washer and left me stranded.

Good luck with your issues! A lot of this just requires getting a FSM, and trouble shooting. It's more or less all in there; and they have specific proceedures for testing the ignitor and coil, though I admit, if it's intermittent, it may or may not show anything. But I would think that if it's starting to malfunction, something would show up as being a little off.

Pick-rolla-Pick

Yeah the compatibility of the igniter itself is the one thing I worry about. On coils I have found a site that says the '82-'88 models all have the same resistance spec. I find it hard to argue with a guy that has had numerous years in the wrecking biz dealing with 100s of these parts. If anyone should know what fits it's him.

I just called the biggest local Toy wrecking yard and they say when igniters go bad it's def not mere intermittent stumbling symptoms like mine. He also verified part numbers can vary, but he also said he's gotten mixed plug colors to work. What makes me skeptical though is he wasn't sure of any set way to match them up. It's as if he did it by trial and error. At least the guy at the eBay store seemed sure of a set method.

I did the cleaning and di greasing. Fixed the horn ring scraping, but my coil/igniter is not the type where there's a square coil body that lays against the igniter saddle. My coil is round and the body doesn't even touch the igniter body. They only touch where the coil's square magnet rests on the igniter's coil mounting posts.

I spread a thin layer of grease on each anyway, but it's not likely going to do anything but minimize corrosion and collect dirt. I forgot to check the coil resistance, but everyone verifies it does no good unless you heat test it. The coil physically looks in great shape with no corrosion or dirt. The secondary terminal is immaculate and shiny. I also forgot to look to see if it has an emissions computer, but I'll do that later today.

I also cleaned and greased the battery cable connections. I took it on a half hour trip to the gas station in stop and go traffic, and so far, no reoccurring symptoms. Not enough driving to tell yet though.

suncomb1

You can run coils / ignitors from any 1979-1983 2 or 4WD trucks.The only real difference is the wiring plugs. The coils / ignitors have almost the same spark curves, outputs, capacitys, etc. and unless you are going racing they will all work fine. To use any one of these units you will need the wiring diagram from the year application of the coil / ignitor and your truck's specfic wiring diagram. Purchase male / female plugs / connectors at Radio Shack, Pep Boys, etc with the number of poles (wires) you need and wire the coil / ignitor system into your existing harness.

Pick-rolla-Pick

Best set I've seen used is from an '83, looks brand new, but I tend to think what I was just told is true, that the igniter would not likely be faulty with this scenario. Coil, maybe, I don't know.

Wiring wise my igniter is only connected to two plugs and they're green. The plugs on that set are green too. I would just find the same two wires on the purchased igniter and connect the same way. It's mainly a matter of plugs fitting. Mine are round, as are the green ones on the used sets I've looked at.

Just looked at the driver's side panel. Is that Emiss comp you spoke of mounted under a plastic box on the outside of the panel, or under a removable hatch on the panel?

I found a small grey plastic box mounted on the upper right of the outside of the panel. It has a big green rectangular plug attached to it with lots of wires. The box looks to be about 3"x4" or so. The ratchet extension I grabbed was too long and daylight is fading, so I think I'll have a go at it tomorrow.

lineman2190

My 82 at hwy speeds is cutting out.Getting ready to replace fuel filter

Pick-rolla-Pick

Took another half hour drive in slow flowing and stop and go traffic. Still no reoccurring symptoms yet, knock on wood.