Well, my luck finally ran out on my 93 3VZE. Truck started stuttering and started running hot for a couple minutes yesterday and exhaust had a sweet smell. Thermostat was not open at all, so figured air in the coolant had it dry. Definitely smell some exhaust when I popped the radiator cap too, so I'm pretty certain that is what is going on.
I know this topic has come up a bunch, but wanted some opinions on my options:
1. One mechanic told me that with 300k miles on the engine, he would not advise just replacing head gasket. Recommended finding another motor to swap out or get this one rebuilt while it is mostly torn down. Thoughts?
2. I am not looking to run this another 300k miles, but I'd like to get it back on the road for another couple of years if possible without spending $4k on it. I see several options and would love to hear your opinions:
a) swap engine with used one
b) swap engine with remanufactured/rebuilt one
c) rebuild this one
d) swap engine with crate dressed long block (seems the pricier option)
e) just replace the head gasket and hope for another 50k out of it.

I love the idea of the 3.4 swap, but I'm afraid that is getting outside of my price range and comfort level with all of the necessary tweaks and watchouts in that conversion. So unless you are willing to drive to Alabama and do that one for me, let's take that option off the table

 

In my opinion, for what it might be worth, REPLACE the HEAD GASKET!
Unless there are indications of problems with the bottom end, just leave it alone. Sounds to me like it's just the head gasket(s). Get a decent HG kit, and replace all the gaskets. Any place you pull a piece off that has a gasket, you need to replace it anyway. Take the head to a decent machine shop to get it checked for flatness, and cleaned.
Check all the valves while it's there. Probably will need to replace the guides that set the valve lash.
Clean the tops of the pistons. Unless there's a problem, though, you won't need to re-hone the cylinders.
Check all the water lines, or just replace them. Especially the big ones, but the small ones under the TB area might need replacement as well.. They usually do about this mileage. Heck, they ARE 30 some years old Replace the thermostat while you're in there.
Replace all the belts. Not hard, and if they hadn't been done in a while, they probably NEED it by now.

Obviously, while you're doing, new plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and rotor. Flush out the cooling system real good, and put in the Toyota Red coolant. All the small, tune-up type stuff. Not difficult, or expensive.

All this stuff is a LOT less expensive than a replacement engine. Faster and easier than a total replacement or rebuild, too. OK, maybe not faster, but you get the idea. If you caught it all in time, the damage to the bottom end is more than likely minimal, if it exists at all. Heck, the hardest part you have to deal with will be cleaning off the old head gasket materiel.

All this is just my OPINION. I am not a mechanic. Just a shade-tree type. Take all my rambling as you will
Pat☺

 

+1!
The 3VZ bottom end is not something you usually need to worry about. In fact, it's only real downfall is the pesky head gasket (and lack of power). You can get a gasket kit for less than $100.
One thing I would add is to replace the water pump while you're in there. A timing belt kit should come with a new one.

 

This post comes at the perfect time. I have an 88 4Runner and a 92 P/U that need the head gaskets replaced. I'm just waiting until after Christmas.

 

Appreciate the advice. That's the route I'm going. But the machine shops I've called are giving me pretty long lead times (3 weeks or more).
Does anyone have experience with a particular seller of reman/rebuilt heads for the 3VZE? I see a few on Ebay and other places for anywhere from $200-$500 per head. I'm gonna pay around $200 per head for the shop to rework them, including the valve adjustment. And if I have a crack, I'll be looking at buying heads anyway. But I don't want to buy just any reman head if there are some "bad" ones out there.
Anyone put in reman heads and recommend a seller?

 

FWIW, last year I took mine to the best place in town to get worked. I had to wait and they weren't the cheapest, but the result was rock solid. The 3 weeks will pass pretty quickly and will give you time to get the injectors rebuilt, the starter, alternator and radiator reconditioned, address any rust issues you uncover on the insides of the bumpers or under the battery, and decide you can't live without long tube headers any longer.

 

Just a note: I recently took one of my 3core radiators, that I had put one of into both my trucks when I lived in Yuma, Az, because it's HOT in Yuma, all the time it's hot, into a radiator shop. I asked them if they could fully remove the upper tank, which had blown off when I was driving my 4Runner, rod the cores, and put it all back together for me. They told me that it was corroded enough that they'd have to replace the cores entirely, and hot tank the rest. It would cost me more by a fair amount to get it repaired than it would to replace it completely.
If you think the radiator has more problems than a simple flush would rectify, just go ahead and replace it. It'll be a less expensive option than getting it repaired.

I have a 70% rule for repairs. If it will cost more than 70% of the price of a new item to get a part repaired, I replace it with a new item. Like if, just for example, a new radiator would cost me $100.00, and the shop wants $75.00 to repair my old one, it get's replaced with a new one. I started doing that when I was in the military, since that's their rule. It's worked very well for me so far.
In this case, it would have actually cost me a fair amount more to get my radiator repaired than to replace it, so, in the trash it goes and Rock Auto gets an order. There are a few threads in this forum that give the correct part numbers for either the 2 core, or the 3 core version.

Good luck!
Pat☺

 

Well the story gets slightly worse. I tried to turn it over to verify some bubbling I thought I had seen in the radiator and it is locked. I’m assuming hydro locked from the head gasket failure dropping coolant down into one or more of the cylinders? So I’m going to pull the plugs and try to hand crank it and get the water out. Once I get the bulk of the water out, should I turn it over with the starter to do compression checks on all 6 cylinders? I know at least one will fail, based on the head gasket failure but thinking that might help identify any possible issues resulting from the hydro lock? Really hope nothing was damaged in my two or three attempts with the starter or the tow home. If so, I guess I will be looking for a short block or rebuild this one.
what exactly can I do to verify the lower end is okay before putting fresh heads on it?

 

Honestly, at 300,000 miles, the lowest risk solution is to pull the engine out and give it the complete cheeseburger rebuild. Doing that picks up any downstream problems with bearings, rings, cylinder wear, etc. that might come up. I would start with how the engine was doing before the head gasket went. If it had knocks or thumps from down low, piston slap, low oil pressure, used oil or anything like that; bite the bullet and rebuild it. If it sounded and acted solid, pull the heads and take a look. If you see a ridge at the top of a cylinder, out it comes. If the crosshatching is worn off and the cylinders have vertical scratches, out it comes. If its good, you saved some time and precious cash. I personally skipped the compression test, since the heads were coming off anyway and I could directly see the condition of the cylinder bores. If you would, post up pictures of the cylinder bores when you get the heads off.

 

Thanks, dblittle. And you are local to me! I'm in Decatur and work in HSV. I talked to a guy at Southern Cylinder in HSV today who said they can do the heads in a day or two, so I'm going to pull them and take a look at the cylinders while I have them out. I'll post some pics of the cylinders. I pulled plugs this evening when I got her home and cylinder #6 was full of coolant. Got it cleaned out (vacuumed it with a hose attachment) and not hearing any awful noises down below when she turns over. So hoping that means nothing was damaged when hydrolocked. Will probably do some compression checks on the other 5 cylinders just to have some baseline info prior to tearing it down. I did check #4, since it is right next to #6 and might share a gasket failure spot, and it came in around 130. Not good but also was cold engine and I hadn't thought to open throttle body. Also using a cheap HF guage. Will check all the rest tomorrow, and test them with a little oil in each to see if it changes. Really don't want to spend a ton of money on this truck, but if things look bad on the lower end I may be looking at buying a long block rather than rebuilding what I have. Cost will probably be pretty close when all said and done.
If I were to rebuild the lower end, what HSV shop would you recommend? And do you have any good/bad reviews on Southern Cylinder or a better shop recommendation for the heads?

 

I'll say this, if you're calm and patient it really isn't difficult to put new bearings in if you're worried about it, I needed two sets to get all my clearances right but it was like 20$ a set I wanna say and some plastigauge. I also only paid around 150 to have the cylinders bored, but if you do that instead of a hone you need new rings and pistons, it's pretty easy to just do a dingleball hone at home and throw on new factory size rings. Depends on your level of skill and how comfortable with this stuff you are, and how much time you can work on it for. I will say that generally, I believe in leaving alone things that are fine, but you also do not want to have to pull this motor back out once it's got a new HG on it. It's an age-old dilema, do you leave it alone cause it seemed fine, or bite the bullet and do it cause it's already out. If it was running quiet and smooth before this and made good oil pressure, I'd let it ride. Main thing is oil pressure, the only proper way to fix it is to put in new bearings, otherwise you're bandaiding with heavier oil and additives.

 

I will say that oil pressure has never been great since I got it at 80k miles, but hasn’t gotten worse. It has always dipped low at idle then back to normal at higher rpms. Uncle had a 22re with low miles that did same thing so just figured it was a Yota thing.
If you knew ahead of time that you would probably be rebuilding the short block would you just bite the bullet and buy a long block, buy a used engine (pull, JDM, etc), or still just rebuild whatcha got? Reman long block seems to be around $2,200. By the time I work heads, get all gaskets, and rebuild lower, I might be close to that. But also concerned about quality of a reman long block. Seems hit and miss.

 

Hi:
There is a coolant passage very near the H/G fire ring in #6. (as other cylinders also)
But because of the excessive heat around this cylinder (exhaust merge), this small amount of block real estate in between is very vulnerable.
You must make sure that the block deck has zero erosion at all in this area during inspection.
Any erosion at all will cause a premature H/G failure again. JB weld is not your friend here.
During the Toyota H/G campaign, any marks or pits in this small area was enough to cause block replacement.
Typically the block is not brought into the shop during a budget DIY top end H/G refresh, so this possibility does not get inspected.
Be careful here.
Also, since there are no lifters, push rods, rocker arms, or stuff of that sort, that requires oil pressure to operate, the 3.0 oil pressure you describe is perfectly normal.
Good Luck.
Art.

 

Good info, Zartt. Thanks for that. As I started tearing into this and saw pretty low compression numbers even on the side where the gasket seems good, with 300k miles on the block I think I'm gonna be rebuilding this one or buying a long block. So far it seems cost is pretty similar and warranty better on the purchased long block from a couple of places. I wish they were close enough to avoid the shipping. Seems like lots of these shops are west coast and I'm in Alabama.
Noticed that Sunwest Automotive in WA state uses a MLS head gasket on their rebuilds. That is appealing. 30 month / 30,000 mi warranty isn't bad either. Fully dressed and at my door for $2900. Toyotatruckengine.com is cheaper, but not showing the 3VZE long block available right now. Local rebuild shop wants $2800 and turn in a week, but only 1 year warranty. So I still have some digging to do. May simply come down to availability and turnaround time.

 

Here's what all I did: Picked up craigslist motor for 400$, it was at 200K and came out of a truck being swapped for a diesel, I saw that stuff when I picked it up so I had reason to believe it ran when pulled. Took it home and yanked the valve covers, found some pitting one on the cams, and two of the valve clearances were way tight, so I pulled a good cam off my old motor I actually had two sets of 3vze parts laying around at this point). Pulled the heads to take a look at the block, it had some minor pitting sent it out to the machine shop to have it checked, they said deck it and bore it .20" over, they're a good shop and my shop I work for does business with them, they said 120$ dollars for that. I measured the heads warpage with a straight edge and feeler gauge, they were about .002" out if I recall correctly, after looking around I discovered the age old tactic of machining down aluminum with progressively finer sandpaper on a flat board. Ghetto? Maybe. But it works for a fair amount of people. Well I spent hours flattening em and they came out great. Unfortunately I dropped em off at the machine shop to have them set the valves while I worked on the diff in my truck, and they checked the heads out of courtesy and lo and behold, one is cracked. I got a pair of new DNJ cylinder heads off Amazon for 400$, had the shop throw my valves in. All told they charged me around 380$ for all labor, new pistons, and rings, with the pistons assembled but not installed cause I was doing the bottom end, they quoted 1500$ to build a short block, more than I paid for the truck. I ordered two sets of main/crank bearings so I had plenty to adjust clearances, Bought a box of plastigauge and spent a few nights measuring, moving bearings around, and re-checking until everything was right in the middle on the plastigauge. It's not the most precise way to do it so I was picky about it being right in the middle of spec. Torqued it all down and it spun smooth as silk. I check all the ring end gaps to be sure the machine was dead on and they were, everything went smooth there and the rotating assembly was butter. Resealed the oil pump, slapped my new heads on (got the 65$ enginetech gasket kit), moved over my wiring harness and plumbing, stabbed it in the car, then fought with it not running cause I left a bolt out when I did the EGR.

Now all told I spent 400 for the motor, 400 for heads, almost 400 at the machine shop, at least another 100 in gaskets bearings and other fun stuff. Not counting tools, fluids, engine hoist and stand if you don't have one. Still less than a crate motor and I knew it was done right because I did it and checked it myself. Thing is, there's a million different ways this could have gone. The block could've been toast, or maybe the heads could've been good, stuff like that can double or halve the price of this. Ultimately comes down to how confident you are and how long you're willing to spend on this. I did it, it was a great experience, but for sure it is not for everyone. I could've done it higher quality, I could've done it cheaper and more ghetto, but it works, makes great oil pressure, runs cool, and has 3k on it now. I will point out this is just a trail truck for me, not a daily, and I abuse it severely but I'm not depending on it. So take that for what you will, I rebuilt a craigslist motor and it worked pretty good. I may get flamed for being a hack and doing stuff "not according to the manual" but it's what I did.

 

Well, after some compression checks seem to be pointing to ring wear I decided to either rebuild the long block or buy a rebuilt. 300k miles had me a bit worried to just get heads rebuilt and send it. Lots of checking around on here for recommendations and decided to give George at Kar King a shot. He supposedly uses quality parts and MLS head gasket. Dressed long block delivered for $1950 with no core return was a good price as well. Local shops were around $3k all in for a rebuild with me pulling and installing. Gonna be a few weeks before I receive the engine, but will try to remember to post updates for those interested. Hoping to get this thing back on the road for another 300k miles.

 

What he said +2 plus check the block with the head removed for flatness to make sure the block isn't warped.

 

Yes, definately. Sorry I forgot to mention that. Pretty easy with a decent metal ruler.

Pat☺

 

When I needed a new block, I looked at buying a full assembled long block but they were just too expensive for me. I found a 4R with a bad trans and running engine for sale, picked it up for $200. DNJ rebuild kit with all gaskets, bearings, rings for about 400 I think. Honed the cylinders with one of those drill attachments, blasted rust out of the jackets and slapped it back together. The whole process took about 6 weeks of evenings and weekends. I was broke at the time and still am so I just cleaned the heads and put them back on. Once I can afford it I'll send the heads from the donor to a shop and put those on, but my current setup hasn't given me any issues. My 4R has more power than ever and runs great after about 6k miles on the rebuild.

​​​​​Sometimes a cheap backyard rebuild is just what the doctor ordered. I understand it won't work every time, if you need machine work then you need machine work. I happened to luck out this time

 

Good for you! Glad it got you back in the road for pretty cheap. I almost went that route myself, but shuddered at the thought of spending 6 weeks plus cash only to have it blow up on me 3 months later. Sounds like you won that battle though! Good job. Just a risk we take with these things.