mattbatson

Ok,
so, I've had my 1997 3.4 runner for about 11 yrs. Bought it with 75k miles and it now has 270K.
It has been my little brick ˟˟˟˟house. Nothing can break it. Towed way over the limit with it, a/c has never even been recharged and will freeze you out, replaced shocks and a starter once and that is about it.


My wife and I have a special place in our hearts for this truck, as it has never let us down.


However, it looks like I have a blown head gasket.
For last month, on startup, it stumbles for about 30 seconds then clears out and runs fine. White steam smoke out exhaust. Losing coolant. With radiator cap off while running there is some steam or some such in radiator...


I know I need to get a leak down gauge from my local harbor freight and test the cylinders to confirm, but I'm pretty sure that is what it is...


Unfortunately, I am so busy right now with two different houses I'm fixing up to flip and my 4runner is my work truck...but I know that no matter what, I'll need to take a few days off to handle this.


I started looking at new tundra's, but sticker shock quickly sent me back to this forum to research a fix.


Now, I can do a few things here after confirming it is the head gasket.


1. I can replace, hopefully, just one head gasket (if it is just one side that is leaking).


2. I can replace both head gaskets since I'll already be in there with timing belt off and intake off, etc.


3. Source a 150K mile engine from a local junkyard (they seem to go for about 1000 bucks around here on car-part) and just replace whole engine.




So, I could pull head, find out block is warped (need to order a straight edge from online machinist site), and still have to replace engine anyways...which may be a good idea since my engine may be near end of life at 270,000 miles anyways.


But, I also may find only one head is leaking, pull it, get it planed at machine shop, put back on with new head gasket and I'm on my way (of course, we all know it aint that easy, and will take several days of work...I work slow and methodical)


and that way I'm out a few hundred, but back on the road.


Or, I can borrow a buddies truck, go get a used engine with unknown history, swap engines, and STILL have a blown head gasket, ha ha.


Or have a newish engine with half the mileage and many more years of service.






My current engine does leak pretty good out of rear main seal, but I keep oil topped off and no problems so far (I don't have to top off the oil all that often)
I also know my current engines history, and I'm anal with maintenance, and it has been well cared for.




So, what say ye, old wise and knowledgeable Yota tech ?


what would you guys do in my situation?

Janos01

Hey mattbatson,

My advise to you is if you have the $$ to fix it and if the car is in good shape and just needs an engine, I would fix it and keep it.

I unfortunately, had your same situation back in late January of this year. My head gasket blew on my 1990 4runner 3vz 3.0 with 260K + and I had to completely REBUILD my engine as it took 2 cylinders with it as well.

Before you start on repairs, I would recommend that you verify if all your cylinders have compression. If that's the case, you might only have to replace just the head gasket. However, as my friends and some mechanics have mentioned, a high mileage and original engine like the one you have, it will be a can of worms, meaning you will be replacing other things aside from the head gasket. And if you are going to replace your HG, you might as well rebuilt the bottom end and replace everything down there as your engine is already half way torn down. And if you are going to rebuild the bottom, use a good rebuilt kit, OEM or better and if possible Japanese made. Same with the HGs, OEM or better.

The bright side is, once everything is rebuilt your engine will run like new and you can break it in the way you want. Hope this helps with your decision.

mattbatson

Yeah, that was one part I forgot to post...
I could decide to do the head gasket, and get it all apart, only to find washed out cylinders with scored bores...


Question, I have a compression tester...but if the head gasket is blown, will I show compression on those cylinders?


Excellent advice, and I will break out the tester tomorrow, get it up to operating temperature, and start testing 1-6


So far as finding other stuff to replace while I'm in there...I did the timing belt and water pump about 2 yrs ago, so they are probably fine.


I was planning on just pulling the head, getting it planed at a machine shop, and slapping it back on.
What else am I missing that may need to be replaced? Assuming the bottom end of okay and block isn't warped of course...

Texas_Ace

From past experiance, replace the whole engine with a junk yard one. I can't count the number of times someone tries to fix the HG only to either find there is a lot more inside that needs to be fixed as well or have the engine blow up again 6 months down the road.

These engines in particular do not seem to like to stay fixed after having the HG done. Also if you swap engines you could get the 98+ 5vz which fixed the HG problem.

This of course assumes that the rest of the truck is in good condition.

Janos01

If both ends of the engine are rebuilt properly, then it should run no problem, regardless of what engine you have.

Getting a junk yard engine is a hit or miss. They just throw one in and if it runs then good, but if not you most likely have to pay them a second time to remove it. And not to be negative but a Junk yard engine can be an even bigger can of worms as you don't know how long its been sitting outside.

Texas_Ace

I would take an OEM toyota built engine over a rebuild all day long.

And that is also just it, you almost always find more that needs to be done then just the HG, which means that it either fails again within short order or you have to pull it all apart and do the whole thing.

Personally I have never had an issue with a junkyard motor, course I am always careful to pick it out myself and check it over best I can. I also do all the work myself, don't like other people touching my cars.

mattbatson

This is what I was looking for, and I really appreciate it.
It sounds like hg replacement can be a lot of work, with a lot of potential problems down the road...


I did not know the 98 engine was better with head gaskets, and I'll start sourcing one now.
It seems hard to find a lower mileage engine on car-part, but I've only looked in nc around my house...
I will try and find a seller who can fire up the motor before I buy it...or someone who has a warranty.


There is a jdm seller in charlotte about 2 hrs away, and I know those tend to be lower mileage engines...they sell the 3.4 for 1450
http://www.jdmengineinc.com/details/...e-96-2003.html


anyways, I'll look around more


I appreciate the inside scoop


thx

Texas_Ace

I would not worry so much about the mileage, worry more about the condition it is in and the condition it is stored in.

A waranty is also a great thing to have, make sure you pull the valve covers and oil pan off before installing it to see what things look like. Change the timing belt as well of course.

Then if it runs fine for the waranty period then chances are it will last for a good long time.

Do a compression test after getting it running as well.

Janos01

I had mine rebuilt at a local shop that my friend's boss owns. They are known for rebuilding engines & transmissions. Got my 4 runner back in May, so far so good. I would have purchased a rebuild OEM motor, however the dealer wanted $6300 which was way out of my price range and I am not to the point where I can fully work on my truck yet.

Texas_Ace

Gosh no would I EVEN pay $6000 for a stock engine. For that price it better be fully forged and ready for at least 1000hp+

Honestly I would have a hard time paying more then $1000 for a stock replacement engine for the 4runner. Much more then that and you start to outweigh the value of the truck.

Although some areas are a little pricier then here but around here you can generally find a 5vz for 1k give or take a hundred or so.

Janos01

Ive noticed that too as I also live in the DFW area. Tons of shops out here that say engine repair/rebuild. The shop that my friend referred me to rebuilt my motor for about 4K (rebuilt top & bottom). Looking back I think I over spent, but he assured me that they only use quality parts (Bosh, Denso, ect) when they preform rebuilds and like I mentioned previously, so far so good.

Texas_Ace

For that price I would have built the engine with forged internals ect.

Which is why I prefer just going with a junkyard motor. it costs what it costs. Rebuilds tend to grow.

At least it works, it should for that price lol.

Janos01

I hope it lasts for a long time as its basically brand new. And to ensure that the head gasket doesn't blow again which my 3vz is notorious for, I put on a pair of high quality headers as well.

Didn't mean to go off topic Mattbaston, I hope all this helps with your decision. Best of luck with your rebuild or engine swap.

mattbatson

found this guy on local craigslist
I figured a 2000 model should be very similar to what I have now?
http://asheville.craigslist.org/pts/5065961965.html


going to go over and listen to it run...he wants 1100 for the engine.


he said he will remove it.


so might be using a buddies pickup truck to go get an engine soon


will be my first engine swap...even though I've owned an engine hoist for like 10 yrs, ha ha

Texas_Ace

That should do real nice, perfect way to buy an engine IMO. While there be sure to check over your own truck for any other missing parts you want to replace. Rare to find something like that.

The swap is really pretty easy. Ge the FSM and follow the directions. Hardest part is just making sure evreything is disconnected and then reconnected.

Oh year, the engine will work fine but you will most likely have to swap some/most of the external components from your engine as the electric systems are quite different and your ECU will not like it's sensors ect.

Basically, if it looks different. swap it over. And naturally do the timing belt ect while the engine is out.

mattbatson

I'm talking with the guy now...he works at the local Toyota dealer in service and said it was the son of a friend and was maintained at the dealer, and timing belt was done recently. I think it is just what I'm looking for. I'll keep everyone posted...thanks for all the advice

mattbatson

okay, so I asked how much for him to do the swap...
he and his master tech assistant will do it for 800 plus fluids


this is how I'm leaning, as work has me really busy right now, and I use my 4runner a lot for work....


he also said that the sensors are all the same as long as you're still using your existing maf and throttle body...implying it should be plug and play


it sounds like he is planning on doing it at the dealership, as that is where I'm going to see the truck today.


Couple of quick questions:


1. Is there anything off my old engine that I should ask to be removed and saved? My engine has 270k miles, and the new one has 160k, so I would assume things like alternator/power steering pump would be in better shape on the new one...
or do those things usually stay with the truck, and it will only be the engine getting swapped?
If anything, this saves me having to get rid of the old engine afterwards, right? I mean, who is going to want a 270k miles block?


2. Is there anything I should get replaced with new while the engine is out? Things like engine mounts and such on my truck seemed to be working fine, and I'm assuming the motor mounts from the 160k engine would stay on the motor and get put into my truck? Should I do these if not? Anything else?
I had thought about maybe the rear main seal on the new motor, since mine leaks pretty badly...
Or the torque converter on the transmission? But then was thinking maybe none of that should get touched since it worked fine? When the trans goes, just replace entire unit, down the road a ways hopefully...




anyways, looks like I'm going to try to get a little more life out of this old girl.
We had thought about driving it in and trading it on a certified used 2010 tundra they have sitting on their lot for 25k...but that puts us back into a big car payment...and I really hate car payments...


sometimes the easy button isn't the "right" button

Texas_Ace

For that price if it is worth it to you to have him do the swap, them have him do it. Sounds like he knows what he is doing so you should be good to go. You will pretty much want everything off the new engine that will work with your old ECU. I am sure he will sort that out during the swap.

I would just make sure that he guarantees the work for a week or 2 to make sure that the ECU has time to sort out any possible codes from mismatched sensors ect.

Besides that sounds like a great option!

mattbatson

Yep, had a great meet with the two guys this afternoon.
He is a service advisor, but used to be a tech, and the other guy is tech...and both own 1997 4runners. One rebuilt his after 330k miles and is supercharged now.


anyways, I immediately liked both guys, seem like good people, and the service advisor guy printed out the full service history of the 4runner. I saw all the work done since like 2005, and all oil changes were done on time, and any issues were addressed.
It has 160 k miles on odometer, and the timing belt was done at 116k miles.


They are going to pull the engine at the dealer, and then take it to the tech's house to do the work. This is all happening next weekend.
They will do the rear main seal, and some transmission seal thingy that is only a 12 dollar part...but they can leak sometimes, and will be easy to do while engine is out.
if my engine mounts are worn, they will replace with the ones from the other truck.


I came away very happy with my conversation with these guys and think this is going to be a really good deal when all is said and done.


I'm paying the 1100 bucks via paypal when I drop off the truck at his house, and will get a bill of sale.


then the remainder will be paid when they are done and I go to pick it up.


The only thing left for me to do is to confirm that I have a headgasket blown, or cracked head.


I'm almost 100% certain I do since I lost all the coolant in my reservoir and a lot out of the radiator, all in one week of about 100 miles of driving.


white steamy smoke on startup that last about a minute then clears up...


but just to confirm I'll do a compression check and maybe a leakdown after...

Texas_Ace

Yep, sounds like a perfect deal for you. Go for it.