I've just put this engine in within the last couple weeks and I'm ready to tune it up and whatnot. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestion for timing and stuff? It's got a weber 32/36, 270's cam (not sure which exactly).

I was thinking it would be good to get the timing right before messing around with the settings on the carb, but not sure how to go about each as I would think they would affect each other. Any suggestions?

 

thanks for the input. That should get me started off.

All the egr crap has been removed, so that should help make things less complicated as far as how all that affects the engine during the tuning process.

 

I like razed's procedure. In fact I'd a-told ya the same thing.

I've heard that one of the best ways to produce pinging when playing with ignition timing is to WOT up a decent incline and in a high gear so as to "bog" the motor. In the event of pinging at this point, retard until the pinging disappears.

 

So I'm not to familiar with pinging/knocking, but should it be blatantly obvious from inside the cab with the windows up?

So a quick review on the timing, the degrees on the pulley are btdc (12, 8, 5, 0). When you say retard the timing does that mean you are wanting it to fire closer to top dead center or the other way around? In other words would I want to go from 8* to 5* (just an example). Is that retarding the timing or is it the other way around?

 

Ok... So, I'm battling with this thing. The engine is pinging/knocking no matter what I do. I have done a bunch of reading on this and and understand the difference between retard and advance in terms of timing and I haven't been able to shake the ping regardless of the timing.

I have gone through and adjusted the mixture screw on the 32/36 weber carb. I read that a lean mixture can cause early combustion, which is what causes the pinging/knocking (From what I've, they are the same thing. Correct me if I'm wrong). I adjusted it to a much richer mixture just to see if it would go away. It didn't seem to phase it.

Currently the fuel in on it is stock pressure 5psi. I have a holley 12-804 low pressure regulator on the way (1-4.5 psi). I doubt that this will make a difference in this problem, but you never know. I just know that the webers run best from about 2-3.5 psi and I'm going to try and maximize the performance (with the setup I have) if possible, but getting it to run right is the first step.

I also messed around more with the timing and it didn't matter whether I completely adjusted/moved one way or the other with the distributor, it never really got any better.

This leads me to believe that it could possible be the fact that I would need something like this. I haven't done any research on it, but I don't know what else could be adjusted.

http://www.toyotacatalog.net/M1WebGe...5-B8C4EF49BB1D

Here is a link to a video I took real quick, so anyone who is interested can hear what the sound it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yiWPHh_SSU


If anyone has any ideas, suggestions, or help it would be greatly appreciated.

 

So I've continued to do research and have found some more things that could be causing this noise.

I have premium fuel in the tank, so that shouldn't be it.

I was looking around on the net and youtube and have found info on what a spun bearing sounds like. Since this engine is from a different owner and was rebuilt then I can only assume that this is a possibility and he honestly may have not known. I took the oil pan off when I was cleaning up the engine to put my pan on and I found there were some metal shavings against the oil pump mesh. After doing some reading I'm beginning to think that this could definitely be it. I've never dealt with this before, but I would assume the easiest way to tell would be to drop the oil pan.

I'm not too familiar with the bearing in the bottom end of an engine as I have not worked on one in the past. Excuse me for my lack of terms, but I would assume there is a bearing or two associated with the connecting rod. If this is not the bearing that is typically referred to in this type of situation please correct me or confirm it.

If that is the case then I should be able to drop the oil pan and the connecting rod would have some play in it.

Anyways, any input or advice would be awesome.

 

Usually when you say a spun bearing it's a crank bearing, not rod.

On the Weber stuff, what size is your primary idle jet? I had to go up one in mine and I still have stock compression, head, and cam. Just a thought, as that mixture screw pretty much only affects idle. Once you get the throttle open a lil, the primary idle jet is flowing at capacity no matter what setting you have the mixture screw at, as I understand it.

I think with your higher compression and larger cam your engine will be more sensetive to carb tuning, so go ahead and post all your jet sizes if you could.

For info, mine ran best at(before my sync link install)
primary/secondary
idle 65/55
main 140/140
air correctors 180/190(didn't have 2 of the same)
pump jet 50(doesn't usually need to be messed with)

I'm at around 4,000' elev, and I don't get pinging with regular even at 5* btdc

 

Thanks for the help. I"ll have to look up that info as I haven't messed with my carb at all and it's pretty much brand new. I had it installed on a stock 22r before this and drove it about 1000 miles before parking the truck for a lot of work.

Does that sound like pinging/knocking associated with timing etc.... or something else. I've never really had this problem and am fairly new to this stuff (first time project for me). As far as the crank bearings, should I be able to tell from just removing the oil pan? If so, that would be great. Thanks for the help so far.

My elevation is roughly 2000-2500

 

My speakers kinda suck on this computer, but no it doesn't sound like pinging. Pinging should virtually only be under load. At idle speed like that is, my best guess on noise is either valve lash needs adjusting or you have a rod bearing a lil loose and knocking. I would still highly suggest checking your jets, though.

If you bought it new, you should have this configuration:
primary/secondary
idle 60/50
main 140/140
air corrector 170/160
pump jet 50

 

Thanks.... My diagnosis was going to go in this order:

Pull dist wires one by one (not all at once), to see if I could get a slight variation in noise from a single cylinder from the less load on it when not firing.

If nothing results then I will do this: pull valve cover and check clearance - adjust as necessary

Install fuel pressure reg - will be here tomorrow - I know this is unlikely to fix anything, but it'll be one less variable. I will have the 5psi regulated down to about 3psi (suggested weber pressure).

If I'm still not seeing anything after these things then I will go ahead and pull the oil pan and some some inspecting from the bottom side to see if I can get an answer to this BS. Then it'll be back to getting a couple more performance upgrades for this thing.


I'll post up as I finish these things up and let everyone know my findings or lack of.




Quick question jon: do you have a fuel press reg on your setup? If not maybe that could be the explanation for the fuel jet changes. I ended up going with the holley 12-804. I had gotten another when I purchased with my weber and it was complete garbage (even tried two of them). They instantly quit working and there is nothing in my fuel.

 

how tight did you go with that valve cover. Hard to tell but that sounds like the valves hitting the cover. It's definitely not a ping.

 

I thank that would make my day if that was the case. It's on there snug, but if it's that close in there then it definitely could be a possibility. I'll be sure to start her up with the cover off this evening. Thanks for some hope of a quick fix. ha ha. lets cross our fingers.

 

yeah they only supposed to get torqued down to like 14 inch pounds. FSM says like 20 but there was a tsb or something changing it to 14. But even then it's barely like 1/4 turn from finger tight.

I'd also like to add that if its a little off center as well, they might hit as well.


oh and I wouldn't start that thing with the valve cover off. Being a SBC guy before this thing I did the same thing, I had to wipe about a half quart of oil off the hood. It will through oil all over the place.

 

hmm... I swear I've started it with it off before (other 22r) and it didn't have much of a problem, but maybe I'm just remember incorrectly. Thanks for the help. That could definitely be the issue if they made a bulletin over it.

 

remember inch pounds not ft lbs.

 

I wanted to make sure oil wouldn't come out from the cover

 

well if the valve's crack the cover when they hit it, then it will. Not that they will but......

 

Yeah, I do have a regulator on mine. It's one of the rather cheap Mr Gasket ones, I leave it on 3 1/2 psi on the road and 2 1/2 when I go wheeling. I actually had to bump the idle jets richer, so the regulator had nothing to do with my needs to rejet.

Once you get the knocking figured out and get the Weber tuned, have some real fun and put a sync link on the carb!

 

ha ha.... Yeah, I shifted it and I think it got quieter, but It's hard to tell w/o running it w/o the cover on. I may need a new gasket to give it a little extra height.

I'm not even sure what a sync link is, but i'll definitely look into it. Thanks.


I just looked it up, sounds like my fuel efficiency will go down the drain. ha ha. I believe a weber 38/38 came with the engine. I'll have to double check, but I think that may out do the sync link effect on the 32/36.

 

Ok.... I went out and did the following:

pulled the dist. wires on by one. Nothing noticeable changed in any cylinder that wasn't firing.

Centered the valve cover. This seemed to help.

Adjusted the valve clearance.

I think it appears to be gone now. Much better than the original spun bearing theory. Thanks for the help.