trail-gear vs. marlin SAS kit
02-28-2006, 09:23 PM
#61
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by SEAN_at_TLT
Matt, I have never met you but I have indirectly dealt with Chris regarding business matters and I have to say that he was not the easiest nor friendliest guy by far. Thus far you have been very open and non-confrontational and I greatly appreciate that however Chris' record of going from company to company and leaving them with nothing but bad things to say speaks for itself. Even if you have the best intentions I can't help but be at least somewhat skeptical as to how things will play out. I know Chris made Marlin profitable but I also know that Marlin was not going to benefit from that in the long run so it's not like Chris was doing that for anyone but himself ultimately.
I believe you have a quality product line and I know that many facilities overseas have the capabilities to make products that meet or exceed the level which we see here in the states at a better price. I also know you have strong financial backing and good facilites at your disposal which is all fine and dandy but not the issue. To me the issue is whether or not you are running a company that will be an active part of the off-road community and provide positive interaction with other manufacturers and consumers and at the same time offer innovative and original products. Look at Off-Road Solutions, Front Range Off-Road and Rockstomper for instance. They are all in the same basic area geographically yet they exist harmoniously and work together with little if any drama.
I know you are a sponsor on TTORA and possibly other forums and that's a great start. I think the next logical step is to come completely clean by telling the WHOLE story. I know I'd love to hear it from you as all I know about you and your company is what I've been told by other people. I'd also be interested to see or hear about some of your products that differ from those already offered by other long-standing companies that Chris Geiger has worked for in the past.
Thanks again for your open communication hopefully it will ultimately clear this matter up for everyone.
I believe you have a quality product line and I know that many facilities overseas have the capabilities to make products that meet or exceed the level which we see here in the states at a better price. I also know you have strong financial backing and good facilites at your disposal which is all fine and dandy but not the issue. To me the issue is whether or not you are running a company that will be an active part of the off-road community and provide positive interaction with other manufacturers and consumers and at the same time offer innovative and original products. Look at Off-Road Solutions, Front Range Off-Road and Rockstomper for instance. They are all in the same basic area geographically yet they exist harmoniously and work together with little if any drama.
I know you are a sponsor on TTORA and possibly other forums and that's a great start. I think the next logical step is to come completely clean by telling the WHOLE story. I know I'd love to hear it from you as all I know about you and your company is what I've been told by other people. I'd also be interested to see or hear about some of your products that differ from those already offered by other long-standing companies that Chris Geiger has worked for in the past.
Thanks again for your open communication hopefully it will ultimately clear this matter up for everyone.
I pretty much gave the whole story previously in this now way off topic post (sorry everybody). Trail-Gear is currently sponsoring 2 pro driven level vehicles, Larry Zagers buggy and now team slowspeed who Larry will also be driving Dave Coles Vehicle. We are the leading sponsor for Formula Toyota this year paying 500.00 cash to the top three winners. We are contributing/advertising in numerous magazines and BBS's. We actively donate free products to special build projects such the El Dorado County Sheriff Dept and TDS. We give away a free product each week on our on BBS and periodically on Pirate4x4. At each event we shoot 300 free t-shirts into the crowd. TG is extremely active and works directly with all of the other Toyota vendors around the USA. I buy products from many of them and they buy products from me, it is a good supportive relationship. I would have to say that I feel like we are extremely active in the community.
I must say that it is unfortunate, but not every company will be happy with TG. TG will not down talk any other vendors or competition, this is a company policy.
In regard to the GeigerFactor, Chris has my full support. His reputation as being very aggressive is know almost everywhere. Trail-Gear will change that for him over time.
Again, Thanks!
Matt
Last edited by Trail-Gear; 02-28-2006 at 09:34 PM.
03-01-2006, 07:30 AM
#62
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Originally Posted by westy44runner
isn't your truck made in Japan?
yes, it is made in Japan - as stated before Japan is in another league compared to Mexico, China..etc.
I made this comment to show how non-relevant this thread has become based strictly on 3rd party biased information. Untill TG has proven themselves un-realiable, un-ethical. such hateful opinions should be kept in check. Granted this is doing nothing but spreading advertising for trail gear, good or bad it is making them better known. I may buy from them, I may not. I'm going to spend my money where it gets me
A) best value per dollar
b) best customer service
c) best quality
and if trail gear is all 3 at the time, I'll buy from them. I shop around just like everyone of you do. I support the small business and I expect the best.
This is a new company and it sounds like a bunch of you are taking offense to them based on your "virtual" experience. Don't forget that TG is still a supplier to Marlin (please correct me if I'm wrong) What if Chris had left Marlin on a perfect note to start his own company? or Angelo or CJ or even Mike? What then, would you bash them to? The web is a powerfull information tool but it is only as intelligent as the user.
be an informed consumer
Last edited by shiftless89; 03-01-2006 at 07:32 AM.
03-01-2006, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by shiftless89
I made this comment to show how non-relevant this thread has become based strictly on 3rd party biased information. Untill TG has proven themselves un-realiable, un-ethical. such hateful opinions should be kept in check. Granted this is doing nothing but spreading advertising for trail gear, good or bad it is making them better known. I may buy from them, I may not. I'm going to spend my money where it gets me
A) best value per dollar
b) best customer service
c) best quality
and if trail gear is all 3 at the time, I'll buy from them. I shop around just like everyone of you do. I support the small business and I expect the best.
This is a new company and it sounds like a bunch of you are taking offense to them based on your "virtual" experience. Don't forget that TG is still a supplier to Marlin (please correct me if I'm wrong) What if Chris had left Marlin on a perfect note to start his own company? or Angelo or CJ or even Mike? What then, would you bash them to? The web is a powerfull information tool but it is only as intelligent as the user.
be an informed consumer
A) best value per dollar
b) best customer service
c) best quality
and if trail gear is all 3 at the time, I'll buy from them. I shop around just like everyone of you do. I support the small business and I expect the best.
This is a new company and it sounds like a bunch of you are taking offense to them based on your "virtual" experience. Don't forget that TG is still a supplier to Marlin (please correct me if I'm wrong) What if Chris had left Marlin on a perfect note to start his own company? or Angelo or CJ or even Mike? What then, would you bash them to? The web is a powerfull information tool but it is only as intelligent as the user.
be an informed consumer
Your comment made no sense regarding my post and my post was very relevant to previous subjects brought up in this thread.
I never mentioned anything negative about any vendor, I solely stated my experiences and non hateful opinions with some products made in China, Mexico, etc based on Matts previous post, for which I did not agree with his first statement ("import or domestic is completely irrelevant when you are the manufacturer"), HOWEVER he went ahead and responded and agreed with me and explained how TG differs from other companies in their manufacturing processes.
Hateful is a strong word, you're again way off base. Re-read my post and previous posts by Matt and other users and you'll see why I asked those questions and stated the comments on imported goods.
03-01-2006, 08:52 AM
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I have seen by the post here everybody agrees there are 2 sides to it. Thank you guys for not rushing to judge one side of the story. We had an agreement with Trail–Gear not to discuss details but I see that being stretched here. I had more to post but decided I don’t need to defend Marlin Crawler, we did nothing wrong.
Back on topic:
On the SAS kit, currently the shock hoops, tie rod and drag link are the only three products we have in common with other kits. Most of our kit consists of USA made parts but some parts in the kit come from Japan, Germany (shocks?), India and China. I would guess about 85% of our kit is USA made. All of the hangers, shackles, springs, poly bushings/stops, brake lines, etc…are USA made. To my knowledge Allpro, Marlin Crawler, Sky, Trail-Gear all offer their own completely unique kit.
Back on topic:
On the SAS kit, currently the shock hoops, tie rod and drag link are the only three products we have in common with other kits. Most of our kit consists of USA made parts but some parts in the kit come from Japan, Germany (shocks?), India and China. I would guess about 85% of our kit is USA made. All of the hangers, shackles, springs, poly bushings/stops, brake lines, etc…are USA made. To my knowledge Allpro, Marlin Crawler, Sky, Trail-Gear all offer their own completely unique kit.
03-01-2006, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by westy44runner
Your comment made no sense regarding my post and my post was very relevant to previous subjects brought up in this thread.
I never mentioned anything negative about any vendor, I solely stated my experiences and non hateful opinions with some products made in China, Mexico, etc based on Matts previous post, for which I did not agree with his first statement ("import or domestic is completely irrelevant when you are the manufacturer"), HOWEVER he went ahead and responded and agreed with me and explained how TG differs from other companies in their manufacturing processes.
Hateful is a strong word, you're again way off base. Re-read my post and previous posts by Matt and other users and you'll see why I asked those questions and stated the comments on imported goods.
I never mentioned anything negative about any vendor, I solely stated my experiences and non hateful opinions with some products made in China, Mexico, etc based on Matts previous post, for which I did not agree with his first statement ("import or domestic is completely irrelevant when you are the manufacturer"), HOWEVER he went ahead and responded and agreed with me and explained how TG differs from other companies in their manufacturing processes.
Hateful is a strong word, you're again way off base. Re-read my post and previous posts by Matt and other users and you'll see why I asked those questions and stated the comments on imported goods.
this was not meant as a direct front to you but as a front to this topic. it has been beat to death on every toyota related forum known to man
yotatech, pirate, marlin, you name it. I agree that quality lingers long after the taste of a good discount fizzles. but like every other thread realating to trail gear, its gotten out of control and off base.
03-01-2006, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by shiftless89
this was not meant as a direct front to you but as a front to this topic. it has been beat to death on every toyota related forum known to man
yotatech, pirate, marlin, you name it. I agree that quality lingers long after the taste of a good discount fizzles. but like every other thread realating to trail gear, its gotten out of control and off base.
yotatech, pirate, marlin, you name it. I agree that quality lingers long after the taste of a good discount fizzles. but like every other thread realating to trail gear, its gotten out of control and off base.
Whats your point, this one isnt out of control, so stop beating YOUR point into the dirt and let this peaceful, inteligent debate continue, we get it you dont think it is an appropriate debate or whatever, do you complain this much when liberals pretend to know something about the enviornment? Or when hollywood preaches about socialism. they dont have the proper backround for that. My point is its a debate, and trail gear as been very professional and respectful, and marlin just popped up as well, so just stop clicking on this thread and go have a Yoo-Hoo.
03-01-2006, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 62girl
Hi 4rnr here under my GF's name
Whats your point, this one isnt out of control, so stop beating YOUR point into the dirt and let this peaceful, inteligent debate continue, we get it you dont think it is an appropriate debate or whatever, do you complain this much when liberals pretend to know something about the enviornment? Or when hollywood preaches about socialism. they dont have the proper backround for that. My point is its a debate, and trail gear as been very professional and respectful, and marlin just popped up as well, so just stop clicking on this thread and go have a Yoo-Hoo.
Whats your point, this one isnt out of control, so stop beating YOUR point into the dirt and let this peaceful, inteligent debate continue, we get it you dont think it is an appropriate debate or whatever, do you complain this much when liberals pretend to know something about the enviornment? Or when hollywood preaches about socialism. they dont have the proper backround for that. My point is its a debate, and trail gear as been very professional and respectful, and marlin just popped up as well, so just stop clicking on this thread and go have a Yoo-Hoo.
Then take it to its own post. I don't like yoo-hoo
Last edited by shiftless89; 03-01-2006 at 12:33 PM.
03-01-2006, 12:56 PM
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True this is major hijack but if the poster is cool with it, Iam enjoying the hijack, its not like were arguing about mtr vs bfg's or something like that.
Everybody likes yoo-hoo
4rnr here again, damn I cant log my gf out!!!
Everybody likes yoo-hoo
4rnr here again, damn I cant log my gf out!!!
Last edited by 62girl; 03-01-2006 at 12:59 PM.
03-01-2006, 01:13 PM
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Not off topic:
The entire point of this post was to compare one company vs. another and in the process of this discussion both vendors have stepped forward and offered feedback not only regarding their products but also some good information about manufacturing, history and other relevant info about their company.
The entire point of this post was to compare one company vs. another and in the process of this discussion both vendors have stepped forward and offered feedback not only regarding their products but also some good information about manufacturing, history and other relevant info about their company.
03-01-2006, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by westy44runner
The entire point of this post was to compare one company vs. another
I have enough info now to make an informed decision.
If you guys want to talk about TG vs. Marlin, take it to the "Customer Feedback For Vendors" here: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/f39/
03-01-2006, 05:05 PM
#71
Registered User
Originally Posted by jsnby
WRONG...the point of this post was not to compare the two companies, rather to compare the the two kits offered by the companies.
I have enough info now to make an informed decision.
If you guys want to talk about TG vs. Marlin, take it to the "Customer Feedback For Vendors" here: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39
I have enough info now to make an informed decision.
If you guys want to talk about TG vs. Marlin, take it to the "Customer Feedback For Vendors" here: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39
(As a by-product, I think we gained some valuable insight into these companies along the journey here)
03-01-2006, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Trail-Gear
I pretty much gave the whole story previously in this now way off topic post (sorry everybody). Trail-Gear is currently sponsoring 2 pro driven level vehicles, Larry Zagers buggy and now team slowspeed who Larry will also be driving Dave Coles Vehicle. We are the leading sponsor for Formula Toyota this year paying 500.00 cash to the top three winners. We are contributing/advertising in numerous magazines and BBS's. We actively donate free products to special build projects such the El Dorado County Sheriff Dept and TDS. We give away a free product each week on our on BBS and periodically on Pirate4x4. At each event we shoot 300 free t-shirts into the crowd. TG is extremely active and works directly with all of the other Toyota vendors around the USA. I buy products from many of them and they buy products from me, it is a good supportive relationship. I would have to say that I feel like we are extremely active in the community.
I must say that it is unfortunate, but not every company will be happy with TG. TG will not down talk any other vendors or competition, this is a company policy.
In regard to the GeigerFactor, Chris has my full support. His reputation as being very aggressive is know almost everywhere. Trail-Gear will change that for him over time.
Again, Thanks!
Matt
I must say that it is unfortunate, but not every company will be happy with TG. TG will not down talk any other vendors or competition, this is a company policy.
In regard to the GeigerFactor, Chris has my full support. His reputation as being very aggressive is know almost everywhere. Trail-Gear will change that for him over time.
Again, Thanks!
Matt
03-02-2006, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jsnby
WRONG...the point of this post was not to compare the two companies, rather to compare the the two kits offered by the companies.
I have enough info now to make an informed decision.
If you guys want to talk about TG vs. Marlin, take it to the "Customer Feedback For Vendors" here: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39
I have enough info now to make an informed decision.
If you guys want to talk about TG vs. Marlin, take it to the "Customer Feedback For Vendors" here: https://www.yotatech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39
03-02-2006, 07:59 AM
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Heres the difference btwn Marlin and trail gear sas kit. Trail gear includes more stuff, gussets, rebuild kits. and it costs, less. Marlin offers BETTER springs as of this month, they are using a MUCH better and more durable spring. And since you are doing a 2nd gen 4runner you will need a spring that fatigues less. the trail gear springs fatigue at a much faster rate. the NEW marlin springs, have very little if any measurable fatigue.
I just finished the sas on my 92 runner, and I havent had the springs for more 2 weeks, no trails, 200mi. and I ordered all new springs to get the new ones. So IMO, based on the facts, trail gear has more stuff for less, and marlin is higher quality.
There I hope that helps answer question more
I just finished the sas on my 92 runner, and I havent had the springs for more 2 weeks, no trails, 200mi. and I ordered all new springs to get the new ones. So IMO, based on the facts, trail gear has more stuff for less, and marlin is higher quality.
There I hope that helps answer question more
03-02-2006, 09:07 AM
#76
FormerVendor
Originally Posted by 4rnr
Heres the difference btwn Marlin and trail gear sas kit. Trail gear includes more stuff, gussets, rebuild kits. and it costs, less. Marlin offers BETTER springs as of this month, they are using a MUCH better and more durable spring. And since you are doing a 2nd gen 4runner you will need a spring that fatigues less. the trail gear springs fatigue at a much faster rate. the NEW marlin springs, have very little if any measurable fatigue.
I just finished the sas on my 92 runner, and I havent had the springs for more 2 weeks, no trails, 200mi. and I ordered all new springs to get the new ones. So IMO, based on the facts, trail gear has more stuff for less, and marlin is higher quality.
There I hope that helps answer question more
I just finished the sas on my 92 runner, and I havent had the springs for more 2 weeks, no trails, 200mi. and I ordered all new springs to get the new ones. So IMO, based on the facts, trail gear has more stuff for less, and marlin is higher quality.
There I hope that helps answer question more
Do you factual data that supports your statement about the TG springs fatiguing at a faster rate? I would like to review the data personally with you.
Thanks,
Matt
03-02-2006, 09:42 AM
#77
Registered User
Originally Posted by Trail-Gear
Do you factual data that supports your statement about the TG springs fatiguing at a faster rate?
03-02-2006, 09:48 AM
#78
I have the All Pro 5" Extreme Lift and it works well, hasn't sagged and then I have bits and pieces from many other companies, including Trail Gear and Marlin. I'm just thankful that our beloved Toyotas have so many others that love them too!
I have reached the point where WHO CARES who did what and to whom about the whole mess.
I will continue to support any Toyota product selling business that offers a good product at a good price and has excellent customer service and so far I have experienced that with everyone I've dealt with, including Marlin, AP and TG.
Competition in the market place is a good thing!
(FYI: It is hard to beat FREE shipping on orders over $50.
)
Thanks for all you guys do for Toyotas!
I have reached the point where WHO CARES who did what and to whom about the whole mess.
I will continue to support any Toyota product selling business that offers a good product at a good price and has excellent customer service and so far I have experienced that with everyone I've dealt with, including Marlin, AP and TG.
Competition in the market place is a good thing!
(FYI: It is hard to beat FREE shipping on orders over $50.
)Thanks for all you guys do for Toyotas!
03-02-2006, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Trail-Gear
Do you factual data that supports your statement about the TG springs fatiguing at a faster rate? I would like to review the data personally with you.
Thanks,
Matt
Thanks,
Matt
As for the springs, I will see if I can get some data from, (the people who tell me this stuff). but first are you actually saying that your import springs are more durable, and experience less fatigue than marlins current spring. Please answer that question.
Just because marlin wont argue with you on the internet doesnt mean they are with you, or that they dont think you are full of ˟˟˟˟˟.
