BlazeN8

Well, the its been over a month since I was invited to discuss the Blazeland LT on yotatech! I have to thank the crew at yotatech for allowing me to discuss my product with everyone! For those of you who have read through the numerous forum post and helped me identify questions and concerns I thank you. For those of you who made it to various offroad events to investigate my creation, it was great meeting you in person and allowing me demonstrate the product in action.
Unfortunatly here is the ugly truth, I have not sold a single kit in months and my inventory is collecting dust on the shelf. Dispite the 3,000 forum viewings, dispite the dozens of e-mails and phone calls, no one is buying? Price is still everyones main hold up! Although I am thousands of dollars less expensive than the other LT guys, it is still not enough. No wonder Downey and all those other guys threw in the towel.
I ask myself how can I further reduce cost. Personally I am employed full time outside of Blazeland so I am not personally taking profits. Blazeland has not made a dime in profit, in fact everything I've sold has been re-invested back into Blazeland to build an inventory. What if I were to shift manufacturing outside the USA? Thats not my business model, I am proud to be generating local work here in the O.C. I subcontract work to a local welder, machinist, laser cutter, powder coater, bushing manufacturer, metal plater, and hardware supplier. What about materials? I am re-using existing components from cores obtained at local salvage yards. Inventory and collection of the cores is something I could do with out. The modification to the LCA cores is the most time consuming and difficult part of the process. The labor to weld up a set of LCAs is about 4 hours. To the home mechanic this is nothing; but to a certified welder who's rate is $75 an hour were talking $300. The Blazeland LCAs are heavy and bulky to ship. How about letting the end user contribute? The end user (you guys) can locally source core LCAs or just use what you already have. Many of you guys are capable of fabricating and welding.
So here is the plan, I am opening up a discussion forum here on yotatech called "Blazeland DIY weld up kit" Before you chime in with questions please, search the forums on yotatech by typing in "Blazeland" in the search menu and read up and revisit previous discussions so we don't go over the basics. This latest forum topic is not intended to be Blazeland 101 but a more advanced course for those who are familar with the Blazeland concept. You should be comfortable with fabrication and be an experienced welder to attempt this type of weld up kit. The completed Blazeland LCA goes for $400. I estimate I could sell the LCA steel for a weld up kit for about $50. This would require re-using your existing bushings and perform a rattle can paint job. There is also a lot of prep work and cleaning required to achieve good welds. What is involved if you wanted to install new bushings. How do you keep the arms parallel and from warping durring the welding process. This is the subject matter we will be discussing here.

camo31_10.50

looks fairly straight forward..but please do tell..how do you keep the arms parallel and keep them from warping during welding??

sorry if it's an obvious answer though..lol..i dont weld too much..so i wouldnt be the one doing the welding..i would have a friend of mine (who is a professional welder) do it in his spare time..LOL

hmmm...maybe it will pay off to know allll the people i do..lmao

Flippy02

i've been looking at this kit for sometime, as i know for a lot of people money is tight, but the chance to DIY it, i would, i have friends who work in local machine shops, and could weld for me at a discounted price. i would have no problems forking over the cash for this, if this is something that looks promising, sign me up for the first kit

peow130

Perhaps you could design a a jig, and give the plans with the DIY kit. That way, all they have to do is make the jig and they're set to make the LCA.

camo31_10.50

so what are we lookin at price wise for your DIY weld up kit??..around $600 since we still purchase the rest of the stuff from you???

BlazeN8

Yeah, I am only considering offering the LCA as a DIY weld up option. Pricing for the other stuff remains the same.

Its a lot of work to weld one up even if you have the fixtures and have done it multiple times. I have built two dozen LCAs and everytime I built one I say to myself "damn that was a lot of work" There is a learning curve that must be addressed especially for that first timer. I enjoyed designing things and figuring out the best method to build these things but after the 20th LCA I had enough. It took quite a bit of work to explain the process to a professional fabricator when I decided to contract out the work. I spent a few hours with the shop owner and his most experienced guy going over the process.

The laser cut steel templates took some time to design. There was quite a bit of work involved in getting everything to fit just right. I worked as a senior CADD draftsman for years so creating the working drawing files wasn't too bad. These files had to be converted to a language the laser cutter could read. Once the program was set its just a push of a few buttons to cut 1 or to cut 100.

Besides the steel templates there is the rectangular tube used as spacers for the lengthening the arms. This is straight forward but finding the ideal length took some trial and error. Once the length was determined its just a push of a few buttons to cut 1 or to cut 100.

Man.... there is so much involved, I am just not sure where to start. Anyway its Friday night, I'm going to the pub for a beer. I'll continue this banter later!

BlazeN8

I have considered that. I have fixtures all ready designed and built and could make duplicates and sell them. I would of course require some liscensing agreements. Might be something of interest for a entrepreneur. Buy a fixture for say $1000 that would include a liscense to build and distribute. I'd sell the steel recharge packs and collect a royalty. I really don't see that working though, no one is buying as it is, why over saturate a non-existant market. Be patient, I'll get to another solution that might work. I am toying with a disposable fixture. I'll have to build the prototype but I think it has potential.

BlazeN8

Here is what the weld up might include. There could also be a poly bushing pack for those wanting to replace old and worn out factory bushings. Replacing the factory bonded rubber bushings are a whole other can of worms. I'd encourage using the free-rotating, non-binding poly bushings but its a messy job burning them out and if you damage the captured washers getting the assemby apart your screwed. For those of you out there who have replaced LCA bushings please chime in with comments to attest this!

BlazeN8

I guess the first place to start is with the weld up kit is obtaining core LCAs. You could use what you have but your truck will have some down time while you fabricate, and who wants that. Besides cores are cheap and its nice to have spares in case you ever want to go back to stock. Call around salvage yards for the best price. In my experience I've found a set of LCAs to be $40-$100. The other issue is to make sure you get the correct ones. There are two variances: 1986-1988 and 1989-1995. They are nearly identical with exception of the bushings. A good salvage yard will mark the LCA with the year. If the year is unknown it is difficult to identify because the captured washers cover up the only visual clue. I can identify the difference by feel by inserting a flat blade screw driver behind the washer. The following picture is of a UCA (w/ cross shafts removed) but the LCA is similar. The later years (right) have the depression in the rubber. As you probe with the screw driver you can feel the cavity.

Once the correct LCAs are identified there are a couple of other things to look for. The obvious is their condition. Look for accident damage such as dents, scrapes, bending, or twisting. Make sure the bushings and captured washers are intact. I also avoid rust, grease, grim, excessively dirty LCAs. If the LCA ball joints have been removed examine the condition of the taperd hole and surrounding steel. Some guys hammer the crap out of the LCA to remove the ball joint and cause damage. If the ball joint is still intact use a ball joint removal tool or leave it in place if its in good condition.

yoterr

in my here haynes manual it says to just use a smaller socket that will fit inside of the LCA bushing and a large socket on the other side and a vise and just press them out, would be a whole lot easier than burning it out! but yeah ill be getting a welder and some other odds and ends this year around tax time, so a DIY kit would be pretty cool, and no im not gonna do it by myself i also have a pro welder friend, odd how alot of us know welders?

BlazeN8

Once you have obtained the core LCAs the next step is preparing them for modification. Here is where you want to make a critical decision, are you going to re-use the stock bushings or will you be replacing with new. I have done it either way but I prefer to start my fabrication with a clean slate. I am processing my LCAs in bulk! I'll send a batch of ten over to my powder coater to be baked in an industrial oven overnight. The burn cycle is 8 hours long and hits temperatures of about 800 degrees. When its over there is nothing left but bare metal and ash. A light sandblast will remove the ash residue. Now when I go to weld I get clean welds. The other benifit is all the rubber from the bushings burns away and the steel sleeves and captured washers fall apart and are ready to be re-coated with zinc.

If you decide to re-use the stock bushings and have a sand blasting booth the paint removal and cleaning isn't too bad. If your using a chemical stripper or mechanical method such as a wire wheel, a scraper, or a sander enjoy! Not a fun task but you have to get down to bare metal before you start welding. At least you only need to strip the paint where you will be plating!

BlazeN8

Sometimes it works other times you break your vice. The guys at Downey used to sell bushing kits and in their experience heating the metal with a torch would break the bond and the bushings would pop out. I found this to be the case as well. But Sometimes your left with a goo blob of stinky molten rubber and a headache from the fumes.

BlazeN8

Ok guys, I think I might have this hypothetically worked out. I created some plans to build the fixture needed to fabricate the LCAs. The plans, hardware, and materials needed to build the fixture would come with the weld up kit. I will be working on an instruction manual if I get enough interest. It maybe a power point presentation burned onto a CD? Anyway pricing could be something as follows:


A. Lower Control Arm Weld up kit: $100
-Steel pack for LCAs (1 pair)
-Fixture construction hardware and materials
-Plans and Instructions

B. Upper Control Arm Extension Brackets: $200 pair
-Grade 8 hardware pack:

C. New Extended Length Tie Rod Adjusting Sleeves: $100 pair
-RH & LH Jam Nuts:

D. Extended Length Stainless Steel Brakelines: $75 pair
-Hardware

Total $475
plus tax, shipping and handling

*For people who have purchased (A.) there could be a steel recharge pack for $50 to make additional LCAs.

So, who wants in on this?

malteserunner

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like a great deal Nate. I hope this will get some more of your kits off the shelves. After what I saw at Pismo, I'm sold on the quality and durability of your product. I'm already budgeting for a kit from you, and can't wait to get it installed.

Thanks again, Adam.

Gnargoyle(208)

this sounds good. I was one of the cheap bastards that emailed you..... :p

money if a factor or i would have this on my truck already.

but the DIY option is much more affordable.If this comes to life,pencil me in for ordering a set.

BlazeN8

Yeah, I knew after we tooled around the dunes you were convinced I am legit. At the time I didn't know your credibility. After reading your thread I am kicking myself for not working with you to get one of my kits installed on your 4 Runner. I am confident you would utilize the kit properly and write a competent evaluation on your experience. I liked your custom bumpers, maybe we could work a trade of some sorts? My 1986 4 Runner has a 1" body lift. If you have a front bumper for my rig we should talk offline. My crew is heading to Occitillo Wells- November 6,7,& 8th. If you are interested in meet up with us there is some cool desert wheeling to be had. Send me a PM or call me. Same goes for other yotatech members who might be interested in a weekend of wheeling.

BlazeN8

Cheap bastards..... ha ha aren't we all these days! I am trying my best to get this Blazeland BS out there! You guys want lower price, I am just trying to satisfy the customer wants.

ckblum

Sweet, I still gotta wait until I start working before getting either kit haha, but it's cool you offer a "budget" option on an already "budget-minded" kit. I hope this gets you more sales, I am definetly interested once I start working though. Might just get one of those 2 dozen you already have welded up though, those ones are powder-coated and have new bushings already installed? Kind of a nice feature especially since my truck sees a few months of solid snowy driving.

yoterr

sounds like a good plan, im tryin to get ur name out there i mention it in every thread that wants a lift, its a better option than a bracket lift IMO keep up the good stuff

BigDen82

I think I will be hopefully getting your kit in about December. What is the best shock to run with your kit? Could I put a shock hoop on and run a coilover? Also could you post some pics of a truck with your kit on it? I have a 90 4x4 reg cab and would like to have my DD match my trophykart. What would the total price be to get everything I need to set my truck up? Also shipped to Michigan. I will be talking to you soon. Thanks agian for what you are doing. Making a LT kit that a regular guy can afford.