Yeah, but the trail is changin all the time, and having to lock it out while one tire is stuffed and the other drooped wouldn't be good either. It doesn't sound like a good option at all to me.

Chris

So does this mean you've changed your mind about trying to connect the left side to the right side with a bar like in that thread a while ago?

I'm envisioning that one would decide to use it or not use it prior to trying an obstacle, much like the decision to use a locker or not. Anyway, why don't you email elripster about his and see if he likes it.

Edit: Here's a thread about sidehilling.

Here's another thread showing that the front is fully articulated while the back is not. Click.

I'll check them out!

Chris

Ok, here's the problem I have with the air shock system. First off, if you've ever jacked up the entire front end of our 3rd gen 4runners, you'll notice that the shocks are still compressed some even though the downtravel has stopped. This means that the a-arms are maxed out as far as they want to go due to whatever reason. And, if the air shocks are hooked up, one tire is fully stuffed, and the pressure is added to the opposite drooped wheel, then it's going to push the a-arms down further than they are supposed to go resulting in more travel, but also more problems.

I beleive that the only way to increase travel in our IFS rigs is the camburg or Total Chaos kit that includes new a-arms, etc. Otherwise, regardless of shock setup up front, the a-arms rest at the point at which they are maxed out and it wouldn't be good to puch it past that normal equilibrium point.

Chris

To solve the over extension problem use a limiting strap.

But cross linking the shocks isn't to increase extension, it's to increase compression. In certain situations the tire that's stuffed isn't going to compress all the way because the spring rate is too great. That, is where the air shocks excel. They allow that compression by effectively reducing the preload on the metal spring and placing it into the air spring (the shock). To illustrate this point, look at Ryan's post above. He said going up hill he measured 9" but going downhill he measured 10".

Of course the only way to increase travel is with a long travel kit, but it still only partially solves the articulation problem. It's still IFS so articulation is still a problem. Yes, you may have 14 inches of travel but you're still going to have a hard time compressing the suspension all the way to the bumpstops. Remember there is a difference between articulation and travel and the air shocks do nothing for travel.

Gotcha! I understand it now, and thanks again for the clarification.

Chris

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but where do you measure your "flex"? is it from your hubs or tires? where is it?

I was out foolin' today at lunch (had to wait for some contractors to return), so I went and played a little.

I was trying to fully compress the front suspension and I could only get within 1/2" of the bumpstop. The droop was no problem (I have low profile bumpstops). My T-Bars are at stock crank currently.





If I had a winch and heavy bumper out front would that help?

Then a tried a mound for more compression.... Same result.



However, the 33's stuff quite nicely. I guess when I go to 35's, I'll need to "rework" the fenders...

How about sway bars, Mike?

No front bar at all, rear was connected.

Here's the remnants of Lee's discos - broken rod end and rusty...

I don't have any measurements, but here are some photos:

i'm one of those people with uniball ucas plus that sort of coilover, and i'm working on the steering rack . the lower ball joints don't like it much either, the uniball upper is sturdier than the remainder of the ifs, and allowing the control arms to droop to the limit of the misalignment spacers is asking for trouble at the tre and lbj, if you do it a lot. my rack bushings are completely shot, i'm pretty sure the lbjs are hosed, and i need to check the tre bjs as well. going to a poly rack bushing will keep the rack from floating around, but it also means more abuse on the tr.

the donahoes are top of the pile right now for non-diy, but i'd definately recommend a custom coilover and welding on an adjustable limit strap hanger if you know what you're about--adjustable because the straps do plastically stretch over time, or i wouldnt be hanging from the misalignment spacers at full droop right now. that kind of abuse right now means r&r on the lbjs and tres, and some welding before i hit the trails again. all that travel is great, just gotta watch the effect on the other components.

-sean

-sean

Total Chaos sells a poly mount kit for the rack and they are also about to release a heim steering kit. These two items combined should take care of most of the issues you mentioned. Limit straps are designed to stretch 25% or more, that provides for a soft top-out as opposed to harsh potentially damaging clunk. When installing limit straps, I recommend using clevis adjusters so you can dial in the exact location and makes changes to accommodate new components.

This is our 4Runner stock-width setup...

Jeff,
The TC LT kit does move the lower mount outward, that's how they get away with such low spring rates. The debate between 2.5's and 2.0's depends on your intended usage, for the desert you really wan that extra oil capacity but for the rocks it doesn't really matter as much. We are swapping the 2.5" coil-overs currently on our TC LT Tacoma for 2.0" dual rates and keeping the 2.5" bypasses. This setup should provide the perfect combination of available spring rates and progressive damping to handle almost any situation.

This is our current Tacoma long-travel setup...

that clevis is exactly what i was talking about...forgot the proper term tho :pat:. do you know offhand if their heim steering kit keeps the joint in the same place? one of the guys down here did some experimentation with a a new steering setup, but the bump steer is wicked if the joint moves much. that heim steer would take care of half the joint problems, then theres the lbj...i have the poly bushings sitting in the apartment, but i found out i have to install them to get the performance benefit .

-sean

Wow, almost forgot how old this thread was..... A lot has changed since then, Jeff's been out here in California and has gone wheelin with a bunch of us, unfortunately FearToys 4Runner with the Camburg LT was totaled in a fire.
Jeff did get the Camburg Uniball A-arms.

As for measuring, Jeff and I did some checking out in Hungry Valley


And finally, when I was at home I took a tape measure


Top of the fender is where my tire compresses to and it measured 15 1/2" in the photo....

Is that guy down there with the heim steering named Mike? TC's kit is not quite ready for release yet but it is not supposed to affect bumpsteer. As far as the lower ball joint, vertical uni-ball upper and lowers would be nice for long-travel but the turning radius would be affected. Or a fabricated spindle upright with a horizontal uni-ball. That one is still a bit of ahead scratcher...

To measure your vertical wheel travel, go from the center of the hub to the lip of the wheel well on full extension and then again on full compression, find the difference. That is the most accurate measurement.

that'd be don. are you thinking of mike at offroad warehouse maybe? iirc he was a big help getting the poly bushings for the tundra but i hadnt heard anything about heim steering for a non-LT tundra...gonna ask him and/or TC cuz i could really use that conversion.